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Blue21 wrote:

Remember that 90% of everything is crap.

I have approved this.

Hameyadea wrote:

Kotaku ran a story about that interview, which elaborates some more on the subject.

Thank you. I don't visit Kotaku much so I didn't know, but after reading the article I can understand what he means much better. And you know what? I agree. I mean, I don't think it'll just die, or even that it'll happen in just 5 years, but it's true that the animation industry in Japan abides by a rather obsolete way of doing things, which combined with the amount of shows coming out and the decrease in the number of animators working in Japan... well yeah, obviously it's not heading towards a good direction.

What people don't seem to understand about this article is that Anno is speaking from a purely economical, administartive and practical point of view: he doesn't mention anything related to the content of recent shows nor does he complain about their quality (for what we know, he may be perfectly OK with "boobs and ass" shows). He's talking about something broader, linked to the problem Japan has to adapting to new ways of working or doing business. So yeah, I agree in that there is a problem that could eventually lead to something really bad.

Moroboshi-san wrote:

H. Guderian wrote:

I think we're doing okay.

When Ghibli says they think closing as they cannot afford to make any more films in quality they want, I think we are doing pretty bad.

Even on a thriving industry many outdated or mishandled companies will go bankrupt/downsize every year, look at the videogame industry in or outside japan, no one is saying "the end is near".

Blood- wrote:

Well, I read the article and he mostly seems to be concentrating on the sustainability of the industry in Japan from a production point of view, as opposed to, "zomg, everything new sucks." I don't know enough about the nuts and bolts of the anime production industry to judge whether his concern is merited or not, but it strikes me that the current system might be unsustainable. The Japanese anime production system seems to be based on a relatively small cadre of otaku who are willing to pay steep prices for titles. What happens if this cadre continues to age and shrink and isn't replaced by new, like-minded otaku? It's hard to see how anime production would adapt to a new financing model other than to shrink the number of titles made and concentrate on ones that have a shot of something approaching mass appeal.

I'm just quoting this because I didn't feel like typing out a long ass post and this perfectly summed up my opinion on the matter. So many people on other sites were so quick to deride Anno and his works, such as Evangelion. Which, by the way, one's possible dislike of has nothing to do with what he's saying. It's not like he's saying all anime sucks except for his. He's not even saying that "anime is dying," exactly. That's what every site is titling these articles, but if more people actually read them instead of resorting to attacking him personally, they'd understand what Anno was actually trying to say here.

Via_01 wrote:

... it's true that the animation industry in Japan abides by a rather obsolete way of doing things, which combined with the amount of shows coming out and the decrease in the number of animators working in Japan... well yeah, obviously it's not heading towards a good direction.

I just checked my divergence meter to see if we had changed from world line to no avail, since when does Hideaki Anno is a business major (or similar) to even talk about the lack of economic sustainability of the present business model conducted by anime companies in japan?

Blue21 wrote:

Remember that 90% of everything is crap.

I live by this motto.

mangamuscle wrote:

I just checked my divergence meter to see if we had changed from world line to no avail, since when does Hideaki Anno is a business major (or similar) to even talk about the lack of economic sustainability of the present business model conducted by anime companies in japan?

Well, he is an industry worker who knows its inside workings, so I think he might know some things we, the fans and other "outsiders", don't. Whether or not he is taking it and trying to fit with his agenda is another thing.

Last edited by mangamuscle on Tue May 26, 2015 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hameyadea wrote:

mangamuscle wrote:

I just checked my divergence meter to see if we had changed from world line to no avail, since when does Hideaki Anno is a business major (or similar) to even talk about the lack of economic sustainability of the present business model conducted by anime companies in japan?

Well, he is an industry worker who knows its inside workings, so I think he might know some things we, the fans and other "outsiders", don't. Whether or not he is taking it and trying to fit with his agenda is another thing.

Let me put it the other way around, just because you are a business major working at Roscosmos does not mean you know enough of rocket science to know that the next launch will go bust. Anno knows how to direct (but can't do endings even if his life depended on it) but that does not mean he has information or even understands the accounting side of the anime industry and that is ok (i.e. most people can't change the hard disk of the computer they are using and we do not expect them to), unless he wants people to take said comments seriously.

Now, if he provided some numbers/graphs and used some formulas, we might get some numbers to crunch by people that know about such things.

IMO he's pretty right about the current production committee system. The problem is the way it's set up is simply to make money and profit with creativity and long term support of animators and the industry way down on the list of priorities. If it seems like your name can be used to sell something they'll support you, but you'll hardly be given much autonomy and be forced to work within their framework for profit. If churning out x popular franchise and sequel after sequel until it falls below a certain threshold of disk sales works than so be it regardless of the overall critical quality of the product and what it contributes to the field of animation. Beats taking risks on new things in production committees eyes. Hell their idea of creating a new series is to make something sheltered and hopefully bolstered by a safety net which might involve some popular writer from the eroge field or a director that made something that sold well be it in a related genre or something else entirely. Genres are just vehicles for the product a lot of the time and a framework to attempt to structure various elements that sell nowadays like moe or suffering or whatever, not something to be truly experimented with or that anybody involved is necessarily invested in.

I can go on but really the problem with anime nowadays IMO is the same with a lot of Hollywood films, too much control in the hands of those solely concerned with profit and not enough of a sandbox or nursery for those looking to push it as an art form. He's probably right that eventually it will just give birth to something new as human resources and the interests of it's current fanbase move on elsewhere as the decade wears on.

What Anno says makes sense. I would not be surprised if we see a crisis in anime production within the next 5-10 years. This golden era in Japanese anime sales cannot continue forever. I am not wishing anything bad for the anime industry, but Anno is being realist, not a cranky old guy.

I interpret his comment of anime expanding outside Japan as the industry eventually getting more funding from places like Europe and NA. I want anime to continue being made in Japan by Japanese creators, but economic sustainability from around the world can be a positive.

Blood- wrote:

Well, I read the article and he mostly seems to be concentrating on the sustainability of the industry in Japan from a production point of view, as opposed to, "zomg, everything new sucks."

Thank you for saying this.

Quote:

The Japanese anime production system seems to be based on a relatively small cadre of otaku who are willing to pay steep prices for titles. What happens if this cadre continues to age and shrink and isn't replaced by new, like-minded otaku?

I also agree with this statement.

rizuchan wrote:

Truthfully I've been wondering about the sustainability of the current anime model of turning out 30+ new shows a season, especially since they then attempt to charge so much for LE releases when the vast majority of the shows (by Sturgeon's law) are crap. It just screams of impending industry crash.

But despite generally low sale numbers this model appears to be profitable. We just have to hope that the animators don't start demanding livable wages.

The amount of shows that are released is insane plus with the cost of one disk I cant see many making out with profits as opposed to loses. I think that maybe the amount of shows released every season should be cut down while focusing on quality.

that would be risky as hell and would end up with companies on the wrong side of the risk scale dying.

wheever someone complains about the low wages of animators, I just remember that an animator got paid 5usd to draw this:
https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11147177_804589756276392_8199367546430529948_n.png?oh=543613829fccaa8b6af68b36addb967c&oe=55FF9C26

mangamuscle wrote:

Let me put it the other way around, just because you are a business major working at Roscosmos does not mean you know enough of rocket science to know that the next launch will go bust. Anno knows how to direct (but can't do endings even if his life depended on it) but that does not mean he has information or even understands the accounting side of the anime industry and that is ok (i.e. most people can't change the hard disk of the computer they are using and we do not expect them to), unless he wants people to take said comments seriously.

Now, if he provided some numbers/graphs and used some formulas, we might get some numbers to crunch by people that know about such things.

You can talk about politics without being involved in politics. Someone unrelated to the anime industry could have said this and I would have thought it was a valid comment, simply because it falls within the spectrum of problems I've seen in an industry that I actually like very much. Now, that Hideaki Anno, a prominent and HIGHLY influential director is saying these things... well, we can't simply brush him off because he's not a business mayor.

Because we can't really claim that the animation industry is doing too well. No, an industry where the average sales numbers for a show are in the red zone, meaning that they loose money, and thus resources for a balanced show, is not doing well.

While Anno doesn't think animation will completely end in Japan, he explained that "Japanese animation is in decline," adding that, "it's already peaked." Anno sees this death as inevitable. "After it does collapse, there will probably be a new resurgence," he told RIA, wondering if said return is something people will wait for.

Death and Rebirth? Laughing