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Tales Of The Industry - How To Torpedo Your Own License


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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4427
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:20 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Tempest_Wing wrote:
So everything worked out in the end. And yet the article is still vague on who was involved or what shows were being licensed.



Plus, the contractor in question has a reputation to uphold and probably doesn't want people to know that she was involved with this sort of scandal. Yes, she was innocent, but it was still her client, so her name gets associated with them and their cockup by default.


Exactly. One thing the contributor mentioned was that word could spread pretty easily that this was someone who couldn't control the client. The Japanese companies could have said that it was this person's responsibility to explain when and how press releases worked. That last line made it pretty clear that there were still consequences in the form of refusing to work with the NA company ever again. Things didn't go nearly as badly as they could have, but I wouldn't say that they worked out well enough to give away many details.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:49 pm Reply with quote
It goes to show how even the smallest mistakes can lead to colossal disasters in no time flat. Any sane company would make sure that no unconfirmed business deal ends up being leaked out into public view.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:03 pm Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
NDAs are standard these days, even Youtube reviewers, LPers and streamers on Twitch sign these quite a bit to get review copies. There's no reason why people are violating them in this day and age.


Well, except for people who don't know anything about business or contracts, or are particularly immature. There's the Juju incident from Skullgirls, for instance. That character had to be removed from the game and they can't make mention of it anymore because the person who designed her violated his NDA in the loudest possible way and was found to be impossible to contain. Basically, imagine him as an excited 9-year-old boy who just got to see his favorite game company from the inside and the people who work for it.

As I intend to get into a field involving licensed products, I worry about my mom getting involved. She is such a person who has never done a business deal in her life or had a position of leadership, and if she finds out I'm working on a licensed product, she will get cranky if she doesn't find out what it is before anyone else, the idea being that I shouldn't have to hide anything from my family. (I can trust her to keep her mouth shut if I tell her not to tell it to anyone else, but it's a chance I cannot afford to take. And I have family members who literally cannot keep a secret. They don't know what an NDA is, and even if they did, they wouldn't know why it's such a big deal.)

noblesse oblige wrote:
I had no idea that smaller streaming outlets entertained the notion of wrenching some exclusive streams from the vice grip of Crunchyroll and Funimation....other than rare cases like Knights of Sidonia with Netflix and Irabu's Office with Viewster, it doesn't seem to happen very often. Maybe they could target movies? Those don't seem to get picked up by anyone anymore.


A startup has to stand out in some way to get themselves some footing in whatever field they're in. Licensors might not want to take chances, but most customers won't either. They're not going to switch brands to something unproven unless that unproven brand provides something very good that none of their competitors can offer, or can offer it with greater quality, quantity, and/or value than their competitors.

Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
There is also a more obnoxious possibility that might preclude any apology from the client, maybe they thought they could force the deal to happen by announcing it so licensor would have to "hurry up and sign" to avoid embarrassment?


Yeah, I can imagine that scenario with someone with zero knowledge in licensing.

Another possibility is that they misinterpreted the negotiations, thinking that something was a finalized deal when they actually weren't. This happened with startup company Skit-B and their Predator license: Founder Kevin Kulek, who had never done or studied business before, was convinced he was licensed to make Predator-themed products when he actually wasn't. He referred to Skit-B as a "non-profit company," thinking it meant "a company that had not yet produced profits" and got permission to make products from 20th Century Fox to be shown off at conventions and expos. When Fox's lawyers found out Kulek was selling them, or at least attempting to sell them, they gave him a ceast and desist notice telling him to remove all references to Predator from his site, which he did--but continued to make and sell Predator products. When some fans did some investigating of their own (including asking those attorneys from Fox) and found that no real license had taken place, they told him he wasn't allowed to sell them. Only then did he stop his operations.

That being said, I have no idea how much is fact and how much is fiction. This is a story I had been following pretty closely as it blew up, but Kulek is a known liar, and he is undoubtedly trying to be his own spin doctor. Hence, it's difficult to tell where he is being extremely naïve and where he's just lying to try to get himself out of trouble. (He is now effectively blacklisted from licensing and is now hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.)
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:29 pm Reply with quote
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:

maybe they thought they could force the deal to happen by announcing it so licensor would have to "hurry up and sign" to avoid embarrassment?

Mr. Oshawott wrote:

It goes to show how even the smallest mistakes can lead to colossal disasters in no time flat. Any sane company would make sure that no unconfirmed business deal ends up being leaked out into public view.


I think it's intentional; they knew what they were doing, and more having to do with this part of the story:

  • "The client was getting nervous. They had investors that were breathing down their necks, investors who didn't appreciate how long deals like this can take, and wanted to see some major news coming out of the company to justify the money they were spending. They had to put out a press release, to calm them down."


They wanted to show their restless investors that they have something substantial ASAP, so the investors wouldn't withdraw their funding. So instead of waiting for the Japanese to finalize goodness how long, they took the preemptive step to release the press release, screw the etiquette, betting that the Japanese wouldn't back out.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:17 pm Reply with quote
mgosdin wrote:
I think the key thing is that word "trust".

Once you have a working trust relationship then yes I can see a stream being started before the contract is all ironed out. At that point the licensor has probably already done several dozens of contacts with the licensee and it is more a matter of routine.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised to have one of those 20 - 30% of streams blow up at some point.

Mark Gosdin


Trust is not the work I would use speaking of japanese licensors. They're paranoid and like to micromanage everything even to the point of blowing tiny innocent things out of proportion. In fact the Internet has made things much more difficult for companies in the US and Europe. Dealing with them is like having your favorite mother in law always looking over your shoulder 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks per year. Not something I would wish even to my enemies.
I could never be in the anime business because I would tell them (the japanese licensors) to "f*ck off" at the first sign of them saying "but this and that and the little R is .002 mm too much to the left of this image etc...".
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Brian_FTP



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:39 am Reply with quote
Wow. That's one heck of a story.

I love these articles. Please keep 'em coming!
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:05 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
So instead of waiting for the Japanese to finalize goodness how long, they took the preemptive step to release the press release, screw the etiquette, betting that the Japanese wouldn't back out.


There is another possibility, they might have believed that the japanese would not find out. They must know for a fact that most japanese can't speak english, so it is easy to assume they only read japanese newsfeeds. But you only need one employee that does know english and kaboom, the cat is out of the box.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:20 am Reply with quote
Yause wrote:
There was at least one other player during the pioneering days of streaming. Didn't stay in the business beyond an initial (heavily promoted) run.

There was BOST, who were right off the line at the simulcast gig but sadly didn't last long. (can't be them in the article as it was solely an anime site, kept going for a couple of seasons, and had a presence in Japan)
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4427
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:47 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:

I think it's intentional; they knew what they were doing, and more having to do with this part of the story:

  • "The client was getting nervous. They had investors that were breathing down their necks, investors who didn't appreciate how long deals like this can take, and wanted to see some major news coming out of the company to justify the money they were spending. They had to put out a press release, to calm them down."


They wanted to show their restless investors that they have something substantial ASAP, so the investors wouldn't withdraw their funding. So instead of waiting for the Japanese to finalize goodness how long, they took the preemptive step to release the press release, screw the etiquette, betting that the Japanese wouldn't back out.



I could see that happening pretty easily. I'm an attorney, so a constant part of the job is waiting for the other side or a judge to get back to me on something, and some clients get so impatient that they at least contemplate taking action themselves, or end up doing so unbeknownst to me. Clients don't always listen when you tell them that all they can do is be patient.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:10 pm Reply with quote
Or in this case, the investors. They might not necessarily be in the know about how licensing works and can pull out on a whim. I can see why the client would get nervous like that--there was a real chance a key investor or two could lose patience and call it quits. Heck, this is a very real and all-too-common problem with crowdfunding projects, where backers pull out because the product is taking too long to make, even if the creators are releasing regular updates.

The Neptune Pine, for instance, is the first smart watch to be waterproof, causing it to be delayed twice: Once because the manufacturers didn't have the materials necessary to waterproof the device, and again because the FCC was unprepared for it and had to invent new safety tests for it. As a result, three quarters of the original backers pulled out during these delays (which in turn caused the Pine to be delayed a third time as they lost so much money from it).

I'd guess that the person who submitted this story has come across investors like that before and thus knows how to deal with them; the best thing for the client would've been to ask what to do.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5920
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:27 pm Reply with quote
omiya wrote:
Premature ageing...

Shouldn't it be aging?
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omiya



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1827
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:26 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
omiya wrote:
Premature ageing...

Shouldn't it be aging?


The Australian Oxford Dictionary lists ageing as the primary spelling and aging as an alternative.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:26 pm Reply with quote
Gotta love them spelling differences between proper English and Imperial English. It gets even better when you realize it applies to measurements as well.
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Or in this case, the investors. They might not necessarily be in the know about how licensing works and can pull out on a whim. I can see why the client would get nervous like that--there was a real chance a key investor or two could lose patience and call it quits.
Either way they had to have known this would've made getting new licenses more difficult at best. I highly doubt they had serious plans of licensing anime again at that point.
Quote:
The Neptune Pine, for instance, is the first smart watch to be waterproof, causing it to be delayed twice: Once because the manufacturers didn't have the materials necessary to waterproof the device, and again because the FCC was unprepared for it and had to invent new safety tests for it. As a result, three quarters of the original backers pulled out during these delays (which in turn caused the Pine to be delayed a third time as they lost so much money from it).
There have been so many Kickstarter failures that it's hard to blame them. The first sounds like a standard failure to line their ducks up, but the second sounds like the most bullshit excuse I've ever heard. I'd certainly be thinking I'd gotten sold at that point.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:32 pm Reply with quote
You don't think the FCC would ever be unprepared for something?
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Buzz201



Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 266
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:07 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
Gotta love them spelling differences between proper English and Imperial English. It gets even better when you realize it applies to measurements as well.


It's not difficult -re is a measurement (e.g. centimetre), -er is a device used to measure (e.g. multimeter) .

It's confectioneries where the real trouble arises. Trust me you don't want to have to get into the whole cookie/biscuit/scone thing...
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