Forum - View topicDetermining the Best Ghost in the Shell
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2421 Location: Germany |
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@MarshalBanana My favorite part of Innocence is the characterization as the cast was filled with some of the most defined cartoon people to date and the team gave interesting post-mortem interviews. The movie lost money big time but i would watch a 3rd and even more unmarketable one at he drop of a hat! They actually wanted to win a Palme d'Or
 and that intent could be felt every in every scene. Sky Crawlers though is a bridge too far.
Read Drive episode count could be trimmed a bit and the main narrative comes together too late yet it finished strong. The ride was “very good” and the show is a slightly predicable slice of life series so don´t expect a deep examination of humanity even if internal conflicts are a main theme. The characters are top notch and how often do you get to see old people or plain looking women in anime? (I am well aware that countless such manga exist.) Everyone who was left frustrated with Plastic Memories should have a look too as that shows themes are brought up and then actual examined. I am surprised that RD was watched by barely anyone. Move it up the bucket list. Ghost Hound is “decent” but has zip to do with anything the board talked about. Watch Mushishi first if you want to experience a supernatural anime i found beyond criticism or David Lynch´s greatest hits but i didn´t waste my time ether. The central themes and back story are interesting and the show is unique for sure but the narrative doesn´t quite go anywhere. The anime further plays it pretty safe for such a strange tale and the runtime needs to be sliced down by half. I overall felt as if i was watching a forgotten 90s OVA. One of the type “unpolished yet interesting” as let´s say Key the Metal Idol. Keep it on the list but it isn´t a priority. Ergo Proxy, the future arcs of the Hinotori manga (all of it is a masterpiece), Kaiba, Lain or Noein are heady sci-fi fare in need of more exposure as the genre has taken a big of a dive in the last few years or at least plays it very safe. Look onto these  .
I will lastly bring up Oshii´s one good life action movie The Red Spectacles from 87 which even predates the Kerberos Panzer Cop manga. (I wrote a positive MU/amazon review for the manga if anyone cares). The film isn´t perfect but how could a black and white-ish no budget satire about fascism be? Yep the movie is that crazy so expect the unexpected. |
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timber
Posts: 132 |
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I did like the first movie very much, but I've been disapointed by everything that followed and I find it worse with every new iteration, including Arise.
The stories are so convoluted that they often lack a sense of direction. Also, in the series especially, they othen talk and talk and then ... just talk some more and the story just doesn't progress. In fact I just can't even remember what the Sac series where about, and was more attached to the Tachikomas than to the other protagonsits. |
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Marzan
 Posts: 515 |
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Agree with the ranking for the most part. Would flip the first film to nr.1 and SAC to nr.2 and it would perfect. The Mamoru Oshii film just nails the spirit of cyberpunk so perfectly and is so memorable, that it's hard to top.
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5316 |
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@residentgrigo
I hope that if Mamoru Oshii makes a 3rd film, he cuts down on the philosophy, it's good at first when it is working with the plot, but he drags it out and it just ends up feeling self indulgent. Thanks, I couldn't quite figure out what Real Drive was about based on the descriptions I've read. I've never heard of Plastic Memories, is it a sequel to Plastic Little? I've already seen Mushishi, which I really liked, I wouldn't of guessed Ghost Hound was anything like it. I'll watch Real Drive first as you recommended, what you said about Ghost Hound makes it sound likes something that's not worth rushing out to see. Kaiba and Lain have been something I've been meaning to watch for sometime, I've got Ergo Proxy on DVD, though I didn't think the second part was as good. My to watch list is getting a bit to big animenewsnetwork.com/MyAnime/?categ=1 BTW is your avatar the Berserk Armour or just a dragon, can't tell. |
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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It's been a decade or so since Oshii made an animated movie at all, and even then it was deconstructionist. And even when he does...it's all about the philosophy. (Which wasn't so bad when he was overseeing UY, since that slightly off-metaphysical touch gave it more of the fantasy and deadpan hipsterism that Takahashi's manga was lacking, like when he used a UY episode to get that early draft of "Fast Food Fighters" out of his system. But I don't know what's worse, seeing the GITS manga turned into running series, or not seeing it turned into Oshii's self-indulgently metaphysical cyberpunk.) |
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elux72
 Posts: 9 Location: Canada |
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Thanks so much for this. I'm a rank newcomer to the franchise, having (I think!) seen the original film back in the 90's. I recently made my way through the Arise OAV and the Alternative Architecture series, and definitely want to go backward into the franchise.
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residentgrigo
Posts: 2421 Location: Germany |
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@MarshalBanana. It is indeed Berserk´s Beast of Darkness but we only have so many pixels to work with. It once took the shape of a dragon btw. Aren´t metaphors nice?
I brought up Mushishi on a whim and a better comparison would be Hell Girl (by a similar staff) where the original manga left me cold. Ghost Hound actually meshes all sorts of themes / genres. Frankly too many and it isn´t easy to describe. It was a triumph of directing more so then writing. I bitched enough about last season´s Plastic Memories on it´s board where it was compared to Time of Eve but a comparison to Real Drive wouldn't be off ether. Too bad none watched RD... I somehow forget to advertise Texhnolyze. It is the best cyber punk anime none know about and one of the most messed up / nihilistic tv anime ever. GitS isn´t really a punk franchise anymore is it? Political and now military fiction fits the bill more besides the procedural nature of the shows and i would categorize it as Tech noir. |
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IKKIsama
 Posts: 89 Location: France |
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[Edit]: Please contribute more than just quoting someone else without a comment of your own. Errinundra.
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phia_one
Posts: 1657 Location: Pennsylvania |
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My introduction to the franchise was SAC and I loved it, especially 2nd GIG. I only saw the movie a few months ago and it was easy to see how much inspiration it gave the Matrix movies. I'd like to see Innocence at some point, but I honestly have no desire to see Arise.
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KannoSoup
Posts: 1 |
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Pleasantly surprised that SAC was chosen as #1 over the original film. There seems to be a bias towards the original film from those who saw it when it came out before the advent of SAC. Having watched SAC first years later and then the original film I must agree that as a whole the series masterfully collects and expands on the concepts that the original film tried to portray. I'm praying that somehow Production I.G. will realize how much SAC has done for the franchise and attempt to bring it back in the future. Does anyone think that this is possible?
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ChaosTheory
Posts: 17 |
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I have a deep hatred for Arise.. its vastly inferior to all the others for a number of reasons but primarily because while the first movie/ep was decent and kind of a fun look into how the team came together the second was super boring and the 3rd made me stop before it even got going.
The badass major is suddenly with a guy (what?) and is being bamboozled like nothing. What a joke. What an insult to the character for drama and bs. The major of the original movies and the subsequent shows would never have been so weak sauce. |
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EyeOfPain
Posts: 312 |
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Despite considering myself a fan of the original manga, the '95 film, and the SAC/SSS version, I still haven't watched Innocence, mainly because I'm not too big a fan of Batou or basset hounds (and Oshii's storytelling style can be a bit too heavy-handed, if I'm being honest).
I should probably enjoy AAA, but I've only seen the first two parts yet (Funi's dub was good, and their broadcast dubs have started to spoil me on availability expectations), but the changes to the backstories that were extremely well established in SAC was a bit off-putting. And for the record, I think Ubukata has some interesting ideas, but his stories get can bogged down in the details, like the black jack scenes that went on for too long in the Mardock Scramble novels. |
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Kalessin
 Posts: 931 |
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IMHO, the only thing better about Arise than SAC is that Arise was done in HD. Everything else is better about SAC (and I'm sure that SAC would have been done in HD if it were done now). And I have to concur that the Major seems to be a far weaker character in Arise than in SAC. Now, I think that I'd still rather have Arise than not get any more GitS at all, but it is definitely a big disappointment. But at this point, I'm not really expecting them to come up with anything that even matches SAC, let alone beats it - especially when SAC is arguably one of the better anime of the last decade+. It would be very hard to come up with a GitS show which was really good without either being derivative of SAC or screwing with the characters and setting of GitS too much to work as well as GitS. Regardless, clearly, Arise didn't succeed. It would be interesting to know though what someone who saw Arise first thought of SAC when they saw it later - especially if they really liked Arise. |
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CoreSignal
 Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
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Okay, based on some of less negative opinions of Innocence mentioned. I probably should give the movie another shot. I just remember watching it when it first came out and I was really disappointed. Its been many years so maybe I'll see it differently now.
@classicalzawa yeah, it's a shame about the fanservice outfit in the SAC (1st season). I also know a couple people that were turned off the show because of that. In its defense, the Major never gets fully naked like she does in the movie. Thankfully, she's been covered up ever since 2nd Gig. @residentgrigo, I'm also still waiting for a "proper" adaptation of Appleseed. I honestly wish Production I.G. or somebody would an anime adaptation for Appleseed on the level of what SAC did for GITS. Appleseed's universe has a ton of potential for a long series.
That's sorta the point. The Major has a boyfriend because they wanted to show her "emotional side" (whether it works is up for debate). Besides, she also had a boyfriend in the original manga. Arise is supposed to be a younger, less disciplined version of the Major (and everyone else). Obviously, it could've done better, but like I said, I don't think Arise is as bad as some people make it out to be. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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I personally agree with most of the list. The only difference I would make and flip flop Innocence and Arise. I can deal with no major, or very little of her (such as with SSS) but to me Innocence tried too hard to follow in it's predecessor's footsteps. It just didn't have the flow and subtle ambiance that the first movie had, and in trying too hard to emulate the first movie it fell flat for me on it's own. SSS is everything Innocence could have been but wasn't.
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