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Okay, I've read the comments and replies people have mentioned about my rant. I like to clarify couple of things..

First of all, yes I did make a mistake in the Nelvana spelling. It was a typo...so cut me a bit slack on that.

Second, what I meant to say was Shounen anime, which is a mistake in my part (I still mention about mainstream anime so it doesn't necessary have to involve fighting).

Third, I wrote this months ago...way before shows like Bleach and Eureka 7 aired on Adult Swim. For some reason, ANN decided to just slap this rant on now after all these months (I think I sent it just when NANA started airing, which was about 6 months ago). I do apologize about FLCL...I missed on that.

What does this have to do with getting more genres represented in American/Canadian TV anime? ---> To answer this question, certain genres can be offensive in terms of violence or just the issue itself..I mean can you really say that YTV or Adult Swim will air animes like Koi Kaze, Strawberry Panic, or I My Me Strawberry Eggs?

What are you talking about? Have you forgotten Crayon Shin-chan, Lupin III, Case Closed, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, and Milk-chan, all series with absolutely no fighting or very little fighting, unless for comical reasons? ----> This is regarding my Witch Hunter Robin defense. I should have explained it more clearly. Robin is more well accepted than the other animes listed here (Except for FLCL...which is extremely popular). I can't say for the same on Case Closed in the US since Adult Swim didn't pick up the whole series & movies. Shin-chan doesn't have much of an impact in the US if you compare it to Japan. Paranoia Agent is one of those rare gems that people don't really look into even if it aired. As for Milk-chan...well...I can't really say anything about that (Sorry).

Lastly, Please learn to read. I NEVER EVER said animes like Kenshin, FMA, Trigun, EVA, or Samurai Champloo are bad animes.

I did not write this rant to offend people or criticize animes. It was never my intention. I do admit I made some errors in terms of organization. However, this being said, I still stand by my opinion.

Sure Miyazaki does hit you hard with his messages, but I always found he atleast executed them in a not so annoying way. Now Arjuna is one of my fave anime, but the environment-friendly message in that show makes you want to destroy the dvds. Sure there were some good messages but the creator got way to preachy and extreme for me at times.

Richard J. wrote:

HitokiriShadow wrote:

As for the Toonami audience... well, their target audience includes middle schoolers, maybe even younger, so its little wonder why they stick with things typical shonen fair there.

Unfortunately, most younger boys are either inherently unable to appreciate quiet and serious series or they are under the false impression that they aren't supposed to like such series because they are "gay" (who started using "gay" as a synonym for "boring/lame" anyway?)

I think younger boys wouldn't watch series that lacked lots of action or comedy (i.e. drama or more serious anime) simply because they would be bored. I don't think the impression of what they are supposed to like would be as much of a factor until they reach high school age.

Quote:

Additionally, the majority of females in both target groups don't watch anime or at least are not believed to by the networks. They don't buy as much merchandise either and programmers don't believe they want to watch the same things as the more numerous males so, again correctly or not, they believe that the female audience should be all but ignored in the equation.

I think there are a few shows that could potentially do well with females if they were put on some other networks. Nana seems like something that could do well if put on the right station at the right time. Maybe.

Quote:

Not to mention that the schedules suck horribly and are only now appearing to show any signs of getting better ([adult swim] moved it's anime block forward by a half hour.)

I agree that Adult Swim has been making some foolish decisions for their anime. As far as I know, Eureka Seven got almost zero advertising. What little it had was in anime magazines like Newtype and Anime Insider. With that kind of treatment, how can they expect people to watch it? Bleach has been getting a few commercials during AS (or at least it was the last time I checked), but it still seems like they aren't pushing it very much and are mostly relying on anime magazines and websites and word of mouth to do the advertising for them.

Last edited by RezSav on Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:11 am; edited 2 times in total

Kim Manning said in an interview once "We knew Paranoia Agent was going to bomb, but the people who were going to enjoy it would love it. So that's why we aired it" I'm paraphrasing a bit, but you get the idea.

I think it's unfair to attack Adult Swim, they try to expand the genres, but when people arn't watching... nothing much you can do.

mistress_reebi wrote:

Agreed. Look at Ranma 1/2; I think they are still making the manga. I guess the more episodes it has the longer it stays on the air, which boosts the shows popularity.

Just to correct you,. Ranma 1/2 ended a long time ago in Japan. The manga is just being published in america. (although the manga series is around 38 volumes)

I think you mean Inuyasha, now that series has been going on forever.

Um...I just finished watching 12 Kingdoms (Juuni Kokki) and I think it has some meaningful social and political commentary. (even considering politics in that world are weeeird) Also, what do people think of it's chances of being shown on American TV?

Oh, and to Mr. Ranter - Don't write off TV-shows just yet. I recently found out what "Doctor Who" is (by watching the 2005/2006 series) And I'm totally hooked by them crazy British people. Also you should check out Heroes. It's like American Live-Action anime with a movie budget. Another show I'm watching is "Dexter", and I'm having some fun mentally comparing it and Death Note anime. (both have a theme of cleansing the world of criminals by murdering them...but they are oh-so diffeerent Very Happy

)
So yeah, I don't think that anime fandom OR our TV is as limited as you believe it to be.

Vikio wrote:

Um...I just finished watching 12 Kingdoms (Juuni Kokki) and I think it has some meaningful social and political commentary. (even considering politics in that world are weeeird) Also, what do people think of it's chances of being shown on American TV?

Oh, and to Mr. Ranter - Don't write off TV-shows just yet. I recently found out what "Doctor Who" is (by watching the 2005/2006 series) And I'm totally hooked by them crazy British people. Also you should check out Heroes. It's like American Live-Action anime with a movie budget. Another show I'm watching is "Dexter", and I'm having some fun mentally comparing it and Death Note anime. (both have a theme of cleansing the world of criminals by murdering them...but they are oh-so diffeerent Very Happy

)
So yeah, I don't think that anime fandom OR our TV is as limited as you believe it to be.

Once again, I said that ANN just posted my rant that I wrote 6 months ago. So it can't be helped. Apparently, ANN is trying to make me look like the bad guy.....lol. A lot can change in 6 months...because I agree with you. I watch Heroes and DEXTER myself.

In responds to the rant Bleach isn't the only new anime airing on cartoon network, I'm not talking about Trinity Blood, I'm talking about .hack//roots it was just put on at the worst time ever 5am on Saturday mornings and had no advertisement what so ever the reason why I heard of it was because of The Click. (sorry if someone has already said this)

HitokiriShadow wrote:

I think younger boys wouldn't watch series that lacked lots of action or comedy (i.e. drama or more serious anime) simply because they would be bored. I don't think the impression of what they are supposed to like would be as much of a factor until they reach high school age.

My only frame of reference is personal experience, but I enjoyed quite a few serious and dramatic series and movies when I was in the elementary to middle school range. Can't say much about what other boys my age were watching as I didn't have much in the way of friends back then.

I also dealt with a lot of bullying as a result of liking odd things. There was a very strong element of "conform or else" in my hometown starting back when I was in kindergarten and that's not a joke. Not just from other students but also from teachers.

HitokiriShadow wrote:

I think there are a few shows that could potentially do well with females if they were put on some other networks. Nana seems like something that could do well if put on the right station at the right time. Maybe.

I agree completely. The problem isn't that there are no female fans, the problem is that the networks either don't believe that there are enough of them or simply don't care about them because they aren't the coveted demographic of, is it 18-24-year-old males?

Also, some men aren't secure enough in their masculinity to watch a series aimed at women. Personally, I'll watch anything that's more romance driven or slice-o-life, as long as the art style is to my liking.

I love things like Bleach and Inuyasha, but I love Diamond Daydreams and Piano just as much. In their own way, they can be just as powerful. The drama in Koi Kaze blows most shounen series straight out of water.

HitokiriShadow wrote:

I agree that Adult Swim has been making some foolish decisions for their anime. As far as I know, Eureka Seven got almost zero advertising. What little it had was in anime magazines like Newtype and Anime Insider. With that kind of treatment, how can they expect people to watch it? Bleach has been getting a few commercials during AS (or at least it was the last time I checked), but it still seems like they aren't pushing it very much and are mostly relying on anime magazines and websites and word of mouth to do the advertising for them.

They believe that anime fans rely more on word of mouth than actual commercials and stuff to know what's on. Plus, due to their ostensible position as a "children's network," they don't advertise mature programing during the regular line-ups.

It's a lose/lose situation but for some reason they'd rather spend money on Assy McGee than on advertising. (Have you seen the commercials for that?)

Taishi: that rant was from 6 months ago? No wonder it felt off. Hope none of my comments offended you.

Great avatar by the way.

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:

And if you REALLY want to watch something different: Princess Tutu! (I WILL get everyone into that show!)

After all I've heard about Princess Tutu from Key's reviews and various members of this forum, I finally bought it at Rightstuf (ADV sale 4tw), so you all have finally succeeded. Of course, it's not like I wasn't already a fan of Magical Girl anime...

On the [as] issue, I agree with what Hitokiri_Shadow and Richard J. said about ratings-- [as] has to show what will be watched and popular, and stuff like Fruits Basket just isn't going to go over well with the typical [as] crowd. I blame anime fans for this--even the relatively hardcore types seem unwilling to give different genres a try. I hate to be sexist, but I see a lot of girls getting up and leaving the club meeting room or convention viewing rooms if we're not showing something with pretty boys like Death Note or Ouran. By that same token, guys aren't willing to give shows like Ouran or D.N. Angel a chance. Fans of both genders tend to avoid the heavily dramatic/moé series like Air and Kanon just because they're supposedly slow/boring. Traditional shoujo anime just doesn't seem to be as significant as it was back when shows like Sailor Moon, Fushigi Yuugi, and Utena were being released, perhaps because female fans have moved on to the boys' love sub-genre. The increased availability of manga creates a lot of series like Aishiteru ze Baby where the manga is marketable enough to girls, but the anime DVDs would never sell that well because girls don't buy as many DVDs and guys are far more likely to buy things like Ghost in the Shell or the latest Gundam than a cutesy series about a high school boy caring for his young cousin.

So in short, I definitely don't believe that there's any conspiracy or concerted effort to keep shoujo/philosophical/dramatic or any non-action/comedy anime off the airwaves. There are reasons behind the current state of affairs. "All things extant in this world, let them be as they are. Thus shall it be!"

RezSav wrote:

Kim Manning said in an interview once "We knew Paranoia Agent was going to bomb, but the people who were going to enjoy it would love it. So that's why we aired it" I'm paraphrasing a bit, but you get the idea.

I think it's unfair to attack Adult Swim, they try to expand the genres, but when people arn't watching... nothing much you can do.

Well, then Kim should put stuff on the adult swim that we really wanna see. If the Venture Brothers can get away with showing covered erect penises and ambiguous Transexuals, then I don't see why we can't have fanservice and sappy shojo.

Because no one has mentioned it yet, another difference between manga and "comic books" or "graphic novels" or whatever term you prefer, is that manga is almost always black and white whereas comics are almost always full color. Also, because of the different cultures they come from, I find their subject matter to be quite different. But I won't jump down anyone's throat should they call a manga a comic book.

I personally don't use the term "graphic novel" too often because when I have in the past people always took graphic by the "gory and explicit" definition and they thought I was looking for some extremely violent or sex filled book. Rolling Eyes

Reguarding the rant, I don't think shoujo series would do as well on TV, so I guess I agree with the networks. I'm just happy that some anime is shown on TV as that's how many many anime fans first discover it. If you decided you prefer shoujo series then there is a wealth of it on DVD out there for you. Also, many people now have access to The Anime Network and FUNimation Channel which show a wider variety of genres. It would be nice to see Fruits Basket on [as] and it's a shoujo I think would do well (I know many males in the "golden" demographic who enjoyed it, several who even admit it's their favorite series) but I don't think shoujo anime will ever gain the appeal that Futurama and such have. Unless maybe it's put on Lifetime or something. Wink

Abarenbo Shogun wrote:

Well, then Kim should put stuff on the adult swim that we really wanna see. If the Venture Brothers can get away with showing covered erect penises and ambiguous Transexuals, then I don't see why we can't have fanservice and sappy shojo.

Well, lets be realistic, if a dark show like Paranoia Agent bombs then what help does a bouncy shojo have on AS? I agree, though, AS should experiment with other genres.

Maybe [as] could air some movies outside of their typical genres. That way, they can try something new without committing to a series if it fails. I think a Satoshi Kon mive would be cool-maybe it would bring up ratings for Paranoia Agent? Wink

And at Zallis116- Not all girls are only into bishounen and BL. I myself like BL, but I like it more for the different issues of male/male than male/female or female/female(though I read those as well) than for the hot man-on-man action (Okay, I do like the kissing a lot, but I'm not really into "t3h buttseckz"). A lot of my favorite manga don't have bishonen in them as well(My top 5 are-in no order-Monster, FMA, Angel, Genshiken, and NANA(the only one with bishonen))

And at the ranter- I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway. I think I get why your rant feels a little off now....and I do agree that mor genres should be represented, but it's very hard to do so Sad

[quote="Turkishproverb"]

jgreen wrote:

Tenchi wrote:

Personally, I like the term "graphic novel", as it's far more descriptive than "comic book", considering most "comic books" aren't all that comical.

Recently, a term was coined in the advertisements for the Dark Tower comic work's that had a phrase I prefer myself:

Graphic Fiction.

But that'd be more of a "genre", as a lot of comics are non-fiction... DMP is producing those great invention series and the Anne Frank work, a lot of comics are biographical [a worldwide phenomenon], and many are historically based as well.

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