Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Classic: Paranoia Agent
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DuelGundam2099
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I am glad this is what the review had written. Granted I disagree with everything else, but I have to give credit where credit is due and am just glad the writer did not buy into TVTropes propaganda. |
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vonPeterhof
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whoisfriend
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Now that the series reviews are wrapped up, here's a really interesting essay that was written about some of the underlying themes. It's really worth a read:
http://sittingonanatomicbomb.com/2010/08/27/the-true-brilliance-of-paranoia-agent-and-why-its-all-about-the-bomb/ |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4082 |
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Twist! The unimaginable remained unimagined! Or whatever a black mass of blackness would be called. Sure, there's HP Lovecraft's "Nothing is scarier" but I believe even he would draw the line at Nothing being the monster.
Why am I suddenly thinking of Lost now? Not important... My main problem with the ending has less to do with it not making logical sense... fits in with the rest of the series after all... but more to do with karma and disproportional retribution. But it's not even on the "bad things happens to good people because that's the universe for you" level but more like "don't tell a lie or you may be eaten by Cthulu"; Wait, it's not even that sensible or direct. "Don't tell a lie or you may unleash Cthulu on an unwilling public. Or not. That's the universe for you". To me, any sort of message gets lost in the mad dash necessity for the series to end on a spectacle. It's memorable, just not in the "well, that was a well structured and exciting climax" way that it never could have been. No solution would have been satisfactory so no real resolution was attempted. But that could be the real message, I guess: Forget it, Jake. It's Paranoia Agent. Satoshi Kon stuck to movies after this, that's the best bit of news from this series. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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He is referring to the fact that this scene implies Tsukiko getting her first period. Which it does. That's just the context of the scene, calling that propaganda is silly. Unless you're terrified of menstruation and think it's a political statement of some kind, I guess. |
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vonPeterhof
Posts: 729 |
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DuelGundam2099
Posts: 533 |
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Because I went there a few months back and edited out myself.
*raises hand* How? I've had stomach aches before and the expression and pain region are identical.
I admit my statement was a tad overboard, although TVTropes has developed a reputation of misleading information and when people buy into misinformation it become synonymous with propaganda. |
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whiskeyii
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Actually, I find that stomachaches occur about an inch or two higher than where menstrual cramps do. Like, a stomachache bothers me around the belly, cramps ache below the belly. I think most people chalk it up to her age. She's around the age where starting her period wouldn't be unusual. Moreover, most people in anime wrap their waist area when expressing a stomachache, but Saki's hands seem to be a bit lower than that when she's wincing and doubled-over. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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On top of that, it's the clear symbolic relationship that "coming of adulthood moment" would have with the (also quite bloody) moment where she loses Maromi and has to face the fear of taking responsibility for her mistakes. As vonPeterhof mentioned, the moment makes a lot more sense if it's not "just an accidental stomachache," but the arrival of literal "adulthood pains" alongside more metaphorical adulthood pains.
And yeah, as whiskeyii pointed out, the way she's doubled over and sweating and the way she's clutching herself...well, if you've been there, you get it. It doesn't feel like being nauseous in your belly at all, it's been compared by physicians to men getting bonked in the nuts. (Except it lasts longer.) Sudden, violent, feels like your soul's been punched, makes you wanna throw up. And yeah, comes from several inches below your stomach, think around your bowels or kidneys, imagine you have something like nuts there and they've been elbowed. If you've been there, it's easy to recognize, even in a cartoon. |
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DuelGundam2099
Posts: 533 |
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As well as a variety of other things!
I've had stomach aches that go far into intestines and bladder before. The more I think about it the more likely it would have been gas.
How come the reviewer missed it?
Same reaction I get from gas or intestinal pains as well as my friends and family. Makes as much sense as anything. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11354 |
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Because the reviewer is a guy and it didn't occur to him? What I don't understand is why you're so adamant that it cannot be menstrual cramps, when the symbolism is overt and relevant, and other possible explanations have no meaning at all? I mean, it's either that the pivotal moment in her life occurred at the same time as her entry into adulthood, and was in fact a result of it, or she messed up because she had bad sushi. Given all the rampant symbolism throughout this series, which do you really think is most likely? oO |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Because I just said "it's obvious if you've been there," and the reviewer is male, and therefore less likely to notice because he has not been there on that one. That doesn't invalidate his take on the episode at all, it's just a minor detail. But my point is you're misreading what I meant by that completely. Then again, you, a guy, are also perpetually trying to explain both how a period cramp feels to women, and also explaining to women that they're misinterpreting the very familiar behavior of a female character while you are not, so I think this is sort of a lost cause. Just take our word for it, along with the overwhelming evidence provided by three separate posters. |
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DuelGundam2099
Posts: 533 |
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Point out the part where I said this, if you recall at no point did I say or imply that. All I said that it is likely something else.
Symbolism isn't everything, especially in an anime filled with randomness.
Some things have no meaning whatsoever and provide just as much of plausible explanation.
Both seem like logical answers in a universe with Warhammer physics in which beings can exist just by believing hard enough.
I can play the symbolism game too: Godzilla is a Pencil Lets have this analytical approach to the 1954 movie Gojira which has all this depth and stuff! You see, the movie was shot with camera, cameras have the ability to write in light so it is essentially the artist's pencil. This movie has old ritual dancing witnessed by people from a city, an OBVIOUS reference to Christopher Columbus because I said so! Trilobites are present in the movie in Goji's footprints, meaning they left their mark on the ground beneath us! The movie has emotional moments in it and with those emotions betray the foundation of Buddhist enlightenment, so it is clearly pro-atheist! Goji is depicted as gray, the same color that results from black and white mixing, making the creature both a heavenly figure and an earthly figure because on yin and yang! Lamps are not found in the movie as everyone uses electrical devices, this means nobody cares about times before they existed so naturally the movie is ageist! Good lord this symbolism has no subtlety to it how insulting! Nobody in the movie wears hats so OBVIOUSLY they are represented by their various hair styles! The oxygen destroyer destroys oxygen which is needed to survive, so this was clearly a reference to biological warfare! To top it all off the landscape had some buildings and trees and paper is made of trees which is marked by pencils so therefore Godzilla is a pencil! See? I mentioned metaphors, symbolism, and whatnot yet I don't believe an ounce of what I wrote there. My point being symbolism is only real when you allow it too or the creator outright says it. That is why I don't look at symbolism and themes are the last things I consider when judging a work of fiction, provided I even notice or acknowledge they exist in the first place (which is almost never since I outright don't believe in tropes). They are just that meaningless.
There isn't though. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11354 |
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Well, not in so many words, but passionate arguments here and the fact that you admitted to going so far as to edit out references to it at tvtropes suggests that for some reason this is a real sore spot for you, and I was just wondering why. 
Hold up, did you just say you don't believe in tropes? oO Okaaaaay then. I think I'm done here. 
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andyos
ANN Associate Editor
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My own feeling is that the 'menstrual cramp' interpretation is entirely valid, whether or not Kon intended it himself, but he _might_ not have thought of it. (Though it's very plausible he did.)
After all, Kon (and scriptwriter Seishi Minakami) was male, and might have missed the symbolic opportunity; and FWIW, in one interview on the US DVD, Kon actually described Shonen Bat's nature by using the analogy of a child who doesn't want to go to school, and convinces himself he has a stomach ache. |
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