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EP. REVIEW: Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers

Last comment, sort of a question: do they mention the total population of their world? I am relatively certain it is well below the current 7+ billion of earth as we know it. But how much? I ask this because suddenly the 1/2 a million dead goes from horrible but somewhat marginally justifiable, to near extinction level depending on that number.

Whenever I'm about to post a long message, just before I'm clicking the Submit button (or regional equivalent ), I highlight the text and copy it. That way, even if the process fails, I can still post my message by pasting it again.

#themoreyouknow

Updating the forum infrastructure with an auto-recovery feature may go a long way.

How aware and involved is her royal family and kingdom in all this?

Desa wrote:

Keeping viewers guessing is not the same as involving them. You can't participate in solving for the unknown, you can only watch the characters as they do it.

You know I honestly can't tell what your trying to say with this specific complaint.

Just like ThatGuy says the show DID have hints AND it even showed you flashbacks of those hints during the reveals. Can't participate in solving? Have you seen these forums? In both this and the main series thread there was plenty of speculation going on.

And a number of people did manage to pick up on some of the hints. Hell I even remember seeing someone in one of the threads actually figure out the mystery. This is a serious question but are you just not seeing all the hints or are you REFUSING to see them? Because to be perfectly honest I find myself thinking its the 2nd option...

Adlet didn't just pull things out his ass. Everything except for the sun saints corpse (which he admits he was basically guessing on.) in his theory was all information WE the VIEWERS had. The sun saint's suspicious disappearance was mentioned in a bunch of episodes along with a mention of her powers, how hot/cold the temple area was before/after the barrier went up being mentioned in a few episodes, and the possibility that the soldier lied about how to activate the barrier brought up in one episode are all examples of hints that were in the show. Granted you do need to understand a bit of the science behind how fog forms in order to completely figure out the barrier trick but even then it was mentioned that Adlet studied science as part of his training.

Go back and read my thoroughly long post after episode 11. The series clearly brackets the time when someone's actions could have initiated the barrier. If you assume that the activation method still involves something to do with the altar, then there are only three people who could have done something to activate the barrier: Adlet, Goldov, and Nachetanya. It also clearly exonerates Maura--I wrote that post to try to prove that Maura was the culprit and ended up finding no evidence of that. Nachetanya's main actions (specifically being the one to send Adlet to the temple and her fit at the altar where she broke the tablet) are quite suspicious in retrospect, and Goldov has no similar suspicious actions to his name.

Adlet, it should be noted, had the same reaction: he went thinking back to those actions trying to exonerate Nachetanya and instead found only more damning evidence that she was the culprit. The only reason he didn't consider her beforehand was because he didn't want to consider her, and at that point, everyone else was following his lead.

Now that I think about it, after they all started suspecting Adlet, you could've just skipped to episodes 11-12 and not miss much of anything really.

What's up with wearing a big complicated helmet when she doesn't wear any other piece of armor.

meiam wrote:

What's up with wearing a big complicated helmet when she doesn't wear any other piece of armor.

How much armor do you want her to wear? She's so covered head to toe she can barely move.

There's the mystery of how, and the mystery of who, and it was not possible to solve either before the characters did, unless you want to quote me evidence to the contrary.

Oh I didn't notice the legging, still nothing over her torso kinda make for a huge weak spot, which we saw when she showed her mark.

Simply that at no point are the viewers allowed to solve the mystery before the series spells it out for us. Where's the fun in that?

Yes, speculation. Making a lot of guesses and assumptions is not the same as solving. Whether 10 words or 1000 words, you're no closer to reaching a probable solution because the series will not allow it. (multiple probable solutions maybe, but nothing conclusive (i.e. it could only be A or B).

There's the mystery of how, and the mystery of who, and it was not possible to solve either before the characters did, unless you want to quote me evidence to the contrary.

Following this up, I think I have parts of it.

I did not read the LN or spoilers. Believe or disbelieve as you will.

{0} tl;dr
Adlet was partially right in episode 9.

1. Lauren lied to the braves about how to activate the barrier.
2. Riura, the saint of the sun, manipulated the sun to heat the area around the temple, creating an abnormally high amount of water vapor in the air.
3. The bombs the fiends dropped cause a lot of dust particles to float around the air, or the area was already dusty.
4. Just before Adlet blew open the temple door, Riura dropped the heat the sun was outputting, causing the water vapor to condense around the dust particles in the air.
5. The fake brave activated the barrier once she actually entered the temple.
6. I'm guessing Nachetanya is the fake.

{1} Adlet explained how Lauren was an accomplice.
In episode 9, Adlet explained to Flamie how Lauren was an accomplice. In brief: Lauren lied to the braves about how the barrier was activated. The fog that appeared when Adlet blew open the door was fake. The fake brave then used the real activation method when she touched the altar.

{2} A partly scientific and partly magical method can explain the fog.
The primary objection to Adlet's theory in episode 9 is that it lacks an explanation for how the fake fog could've formed. Flamie claimed that the saint of fog was not powerful enough to form the fog. [1] I am going to assume she isn't the 7th lying to Adlet, because:

1. Hans isn't there, and he could be explaining the same theory to Maura. If the saint of fog is powerful enough to blanket the forest with fog immediately, Maura would likely know about it. It would be at best pointless to lie (if she kills Adlet) and at worst dangerous to lie (if Adlet gets away and tells Hans and Maura about her lies).

2. It would mean the author is bringing in a hereto unnamed character.

I initially dismissed the possibility of a scientific explanation, because a scientific explanation requires massive amounts of machinery and/or storage to blanket a forest in fog. However, it's possible that we have a part scientific and part magical explanation.

{3} Fog forms when water vapor condenses around solid particles in the air.
At a very basic level, Fog forms when the following conditions are fulfilled: [2]

1. There must be solid particles in the air, and
2. Water vapor in the air condenses around the solid particles:

{4} Solid particles in the air can be natural or supplied through the fiends.
They are in a forest, so having solid particles in the air isn't unusual. The other possibility is that the fiends' bomb served the dual purpose of luring the braves to the temple as well as covering the area with dust particles, since we know they didn't bomb the temple directly. [3]

Regardless of which method is true, having solid particles in the air isn't a significant problem.

{5} Riura manipulated the sun to cause water vapor to condense.
You can get water vapor to condense in one of the following ways:
1. A rise in temperature above the norm causes water vapor to form, then a drop in temperature back to the norm causes condensation.
2. Water vapor is already sufficient at normal temperature, and a sudden drop in temperature causes the water vapor already in the air to condense.

Nachetanya and Adlet discussed Riura in episode 2, when Nachetanya mentioned that Riura was missing. [15] Riura was powerful enough to destroy a castle with heat rays from the sun. [4] Nachetanya mentioned that Riura is now too weak to be a brave candidate. [5]

However, Riura is still the saint of the sun, and she is presumably still powerful enough to manipulate the sun to a degree such that an abnormally high amount of water would be in the air, so it is not impossible for her to accomplish such a feat.

{6} There have been some visual hints that Riura is an accomplice.
I believe there have been some hints that Riura is an accomplice.

The first set of visual hints suggests that someone with the power to manipulate the sun is involved.
First, in episode 4, as the party was walking in the forest, we have a shot of the blazing sun in the sky. [6]

Second, we immediately followed the shot of the blazing sun with Adlet wiping sweat off his chin, suggesting that the temperature was hot. [7]

Third, just before Adlet went to help the woman he noticed around the temple, we have a shot of the sun being obscured by the clouds. [8]

The blazing sun caused water vapor to rise into the air, and the sun being obscured by the clouds cause a drop in temperature that caused water vapor to condense around solid particles in the air--either naturally or from the bombing.

These events can be the result of natural phenomena, but they are a bit too conveniently timed to be merely coincidence. These suggest that someone who can manipulate the sun or the clouds is involved. We have no idea whether there is even a saint who can manipulate clouds, so our suspicion is drawn toward the saint of the sun.

The second set of hints are visual.
Take a look at the clothes that the woman/monkey fiend near the temple was wearing. [9]

They look quite similar to what Maura is wearing. [10] it also looks quite similar to what Riura was wearing when she was depicted in the mural in episode 2. [11]

There are differences between the woman/monkey fiend's clothes and both Maura's and Riura's clothes. For example, Maura's dress is split down the left side, while the woman's dress was split down the middle. Maura does not wear the strange hat or the long sleeves. The woman's dress lacks all the ceremonial bling on Riura's dress, and Riura also lacks the long sleeves.

The dresses look similar enough that it could be the official uniform of the leader of the All Heaven's Temple, with Maura and woman wearing versions that lack all the ceremonial bling that appear on Riura's mural depiction.

Why did the monkey fiend choose that particular set of clothes? It seems that having someone who actually wore those clothes as the model would be a reasonable explanation.

{7} Riura is a better accomplice from a narrative point of view than another saint.
it is possible to get the condensation by using a person with ice powers--the saint of ice, for example--, to cool the air below normal temperature. Another saint is The saint of ice is less ideal of an accomplice than Riura, because the previous saint of ice was killed, and we have yet to be introduced to the current saint of ice. [12] We have not been introduced to any other saint that might have a similar power, and Flamie most likely told the truth about the saint of fog being not powerful enough to create the fog (see part 2).

{8} Riura being an accomplice explains some unusual statements.
Maura claims to not know any details about the barrier, despite being the leader of the All Heaven's Temple and having memorized the saints' abilities. [13]

Hans claims that the king told him to go to the fortress to learn about the barrier. [14]

At this point, we can be fairly certain that Hans and Maura are not accomplices, so at least 1 of the 2 is telling the truth. If both are telling the truth, the it seems that the only persons who would be in a better position to know about the barrier are the ones who created the barrier (saints of fog, illusion, seals, and salt) and Riura, the previous leader of the All Heaven's Temple. Riura has been named and has not been dismissed. She would be in a good position to brief the fiends and form this plan.

{9} Nachetanya is the prime suspect for the fake for being the only person who knew Riura was missing.
I'm guessing the fake is Nachetanya. She knew about Riura being missing. [15] Flamie did not, despite being the brave killer and presumably keeping track of her targets. [16] No one else mentioned Riura.

The irony about this deduction is that I am fairly confident about how the fake activated the barrier and who her accomplices are, but I am far less certain as to who the fake is.

{10} Motives
I don't know what the motives of the individuals are, but it's not hard to supply one for each. We know one of the fiend leaders is a very persuasive person, because he convinced almost everyone in Adlet's fiends to join the fiends voluntarily. With that in mind:

1. Lauren and the other soldiers. They were in a heavily besieged fortress and apparently tasked with a near suicide mission of trapping fiends in a barrier. It would not be hard to persuade some of them to defect. Even if that is too unreliable, keep in mind that these are faceless grunts. It's not hard to get some of the people who already joined the fiends for years (such as those from Adlet's village) to wear the uniforms for a while, though this does have the risk of the impersonators being recognized.

2. Nachetanya. Her country was recently ravaged by civil war. Her country ended up being taken over by the prime minister, and her father was reduced to a shell of a man. Her father ordered her execution, possibly under pressure from the prime minister, and she was forced to run. It's not hard to imagine a deal that she would take.

3. Riura. Perhaps she doesn't enjoy ceding her power to Maura.

References
[1] Episode 9, Flaming claiming the saint of fog isn't powerful enough to blanket the forest suddenly: http://i.imgur.com/CfI9sKH.jpg
[2] National Geographic explanation of fog formation: http://education.nationalgeographic.com/encyclopedia/fog/
[3] Episode 4, Adlet noticing the temple was unharmed after the bombing: http://i.imgur.com/HKtCudG.jpg
[4] Episode 2, Adlet noting Riura's feats: http://i.imgur.com/GPh4qvc.jpg
[5] Episode 2, Nachetanya notes Riura's current weakness: http://i.imgur.com/3yAMckj.jpg
[6] Episode 4, blazing sun: http://i.imgur.com/5Y691JT.jpg
[7] Episode 4, Adlet wiping sweat: http://i.imgur.com/nOYSRjQ.jpg
[8] Episode 4, sun being obscured: http://i.imgur.com/dbjy2a6.jpg
[9] Episode 4, woman/monkey fiend: http://i.imgur.com/IkRYq6Q.jpg
[10] Episode 5, Maura's clothes: http://i.imgur.com/qHvGXNz.jpg
[11] Episode 2, Riura in a mural: http://i.imgur.com/3yAMckj.jpg
[12] Episode 1, Nachetanya reporting the saint of ice's death: http://i.imgur.com/p78Vopa.jpg
[13] Episode 5, Maura claiming she only knew of the barrier: http://i.imgur.com/jrUjL8x.jpg
[14] Episode 6, Hans claiming the kint said to go to the fortress: http://i.imgur.com/jrUjL8x.jpg
[15] Episode 2, Nachetanya reports Riura missing: http://i.imgur.com/9m8Hzed.jpg
[16] Episode 4, Flamie claiming she doesn't know about Riura: http://i.imgur.com/wqQ4fZp.jpg

Let's say you suspected the sun saint was somehow behind the heat early on and that she was somehow working for the fiends. Let's also say you know well that dropping the temperature of an area surrounded by cooler air will cause fog to form. You still wouldn't be able to conclusively reconcile these two facts because of what the characters were saying about the limits of a saint's powers. It took a loooong time to gather all the heat around the area as the sun saint could not instantaneously generate so much heat, and by the SAME measure, could not instantaneously release said heat. That was until Adlet dropped that crucial itty bitty little detail about how the death of a saint instantly magicks away the effects of their powers, something I don't believe we knew before Adlet casually brought it up. So we solved the mystery of 'how' at the same time as the characters, not before.

Nevermind that it was pure luck they even found the sun saint's body. Multiple smaller fiends could've eaten chunks of her, making accurate identification of the body virtually impossible.

Same thing with the fake barrier activation method, which wasn't really a "hint" as Adlet directly stated it was probable, but as soon as he said it, he had no evidence to support it and such information became useless until they discovered the true barrier activation method, which was the same time they, and we the viewers, solved the "who" part.

Bottom line is all the details placed throughout the series were useful ONLY in retrospect, and not for actually solving anything, since before we knew the answer, all those details were essentially meaningless because they could have had numerous explanations, and we had no clue how they were related because the piece that tied them together was only revealed at the end.

4. Just before Adlet blew open the temple door, Riura dropped the heat the sun was outputting, causing the water vapor to condense around the dust particles in the air.

{5} Riura manipulated the sun to cause water vapor to condense.
You can get water vapor to condense in one of the following ways:
1. A rise in temperature above the norm causes water vapor to form, then a drop in temperature back to the norm causes condensation.
2. Water vapor is already sufficient at normal temperature, and a sudden drop in temperature causes the water vapor already in the air to condense.