Forum

dtm42 wrote:

You don't know how production committees work.

And you can't just arbitrarily increase the number of members, because each member represents one particular faction and there are only so many possible factions that there can be. Examples of such include the toy/merchandising company, the television station (if applicable), the animation studio, the music label, the publisher (of the source material), an ad agency trying to put product placement in the show (like Code Geass promoting Pizza Hutt, or Nodame Cantabile promoting Yamaha), and several others besides. But the upshot is, there's only a limited number of slots available. You wouldn't want two toy companies on board because they'd just argue about who gets to produce which merchandise.

You're right. I don't know how production committee works. However the point is, bring in more sponsors to increase the budget is not a bad idea either. Heck the whole committee system was invented to reduce the risk of investment in first place so that one sole investor doesn't have to lose shirt over failures.

Granted that not every member can pitch in tens of millions of yen, but expanding pool of sponsors and figuring out how to profit from investment is an improvement in my opinion. Late night anime is basically a well-made informercial anyway, so why not use its appeal to gather more varying sponsors instead of limiting to certain group of sponsors? Sponsors doesn't have to be a toy company or a publisher. Any business making millions in revenue can pitch in as long as product placement is done right. Japan has no problem making expensive commercials with Hollywood movie stars, so I do think it's possible to use their home-grown media for better purpose.

Japanese production already figured out how to get stable source of budget through committee system, so wouldn't it be smart to figure out to get more money another way?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cutiebunny wrote:

If these companies are so keen on recovering their loss, how about selling some of that artwork that was used in the making of the series? Yes, I know it's CG, but many productions still make hand painted backgrounds and draw their characters on paper (and later scan this into a computer). Yet, instead of selling these to fans, they are either trashed (looking at you, Madhouse) or burned (Most studios) after a couple months/years.

Back when Kobato had just finished its production run, there was a seller on Yahoo Japan that would just sell lots of 10 or so backgrounds a week and I spent all sorts of money on it as Kobato is one of my favorite anime. The money I spent could have easily bought the animation staff food for at least a week. True, one person is not going to support the entire industry, or even a significant part of one production's costs, but instead of treating its by-products like trash, sell them to fans. This is really untapped revenue.

I'm not saying that your collection taste is wrong or anything, but not everyone shares the same collection taste as you do. What if certain show was unpopular and its finished production materials are not going away even with sales? There are also contractual obligation which production studios can't sell animation drawings/painting without permission from original copyright holders.

Even if there are thousands of collectors like you, they are likely to go after popular titles and not every anime production will get benefit from such sales of "movie props". And not all collectors can spend so much money on buying those "props" like you do.

{Combined serial posts. ~nobahn}

@reanimator

It really doesn't matter if we know how the anime business works or not. We can sit here and make all the suggestions we want, but it is their business not ours. I suspect they feel they know what they are doing and wouldn't want anyone telling them how to run things.

Their business practices may not be perfect but they are "good enough". However well or poorly the system works it is responsible for the anime we are all here for. Even if we had the ability to change things, we would have to keep the doctors motto in mind. "First do no harm". I would hate to see the anime industry destroyed by people intending to "improve" it.

so for the people who want to know how the most recent boots for their anime novel adaption are right now this years top selling novels for 2015 second half will be interesting when that gets shown also if anyone has the august rankings put it since am having a hard time finding that one

Light Novels and Anime/Manga related books for June

*1. 41,496　*94,392　Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka Vol.8
*2.　25,626　*25,626　Date A Live Vol.12
*3.　18,339　*90,423　Accel World Vol.18
*4.　16,576　*16,576　Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata Vol.8
*5.　13,111　*62,943　Hataraku Maou-sama! Vol.13
*6.　11,895　*58,081　Sword Art Online Alternative: Gun Gale Online Vol.3
*7.　10,061　*49,885　Strike the Blood Vol.13
*8.　*8,713　*21,266　Seiken Tsukai no World Break Vol.12
*9.　*8,118　**8,118　Legend Vol.3
10.　*7,973　**7,973　Nanatsu no Taizai: Game Book - Mayoi no Mori no Bouken

11.　*7,901　*67,252　Naruto Hiden Vol.4
12.　*7,398　**7,398　Enjou: Tsugai no Sadame
13.　*7,019　*16,226　Saijaku Muhai no Bahamut Vol.6
14.　*6,630　**6,630　Bakemono no Ko
15.　*6,129　*37,189　Kekkai Sensen: Only a Paper Moon
16.　*5,824　**5,824　Majime na Maou-sama wo Yuuwaku shitara Do S na Zetsurin ni Narimashita.
17.　*5,801　**5,801　Toaru Hikuushi e no Seiyaku Vol.8
18.　*5,157　*29,508　Kyoukaisenjou no Horizon Vol.8 Part 3 (Vol.21)
19.　*5,037　128,600　Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka Vol.7
20.　*4,898　182,894　Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka Vol.1

Alan45 wrote:

@reanimator

It really doesn't matter if we know how the anime business works or not. We can sit here and make all the suggestions we want, but it is their business not ours. I suspect they feel they know what they are doing and wouldn't want anyone telling them how to run things.

As you said, we have no right to tell how should they run their business. The problem is that they're keep talking about budget woes and harsh labor condition for decades and those issues are hard to ignore when we are fans of that animation medium. If I wasn't a fan, then I wouldn't care about whether the industry lives or dies. I would just move onto next thing.

Of course Japanese are not going to read whatever suggestions that some foreign fans like myself throw in, but at least news writers could raise questions about how their favorite entertainment industry is doing when they meet industry guests/insiders.

Anime production came up with committee-based sponsorship in more than 20 years ago, so wouldn't this be right time for them to explore other ways to get more budget without ditching current system?

relyat08 wrote:

TheAncientOne wrote:

The article you referred to in a later reply ( http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.342045-Court-Documents-Reveal-Anime-Licensing-Costs ) pegs the most expensive show at $960,000, and that was for the entire series (which was 24 episodes), not per episode.

Yeah, I know. I think it's worth noting that that is just the streaming license though. Who knows what it costs for the Home Video rights, music, etc.

Those figures from ADV have nothing to do with streaming; those were the licensing fees ADV paid to produce R1 DVDs. Streaming didn't even exist when those shows were licensed.

Anime is super cheap to make. The average 2D US cartoon costs like $300,000-$500,000. Spongebob is in the higher average.

Anime needs to cut down production and increase budgets. They need to increase scheduling as well. It takes 9 months to produce a SINGLE section of Spongebob. It took one year to make a SINGLE Korra episode. Hell, even Batman Beyond took 5 months to produce a single episode. Because of that, all of these shows have superior animation and facial expressions to most, if not all TV anime, regardless of what Jose Cruz says. Fate/Stay/Night UBW is high budget and is only "fluid" due to the sped up fight scenes. There's barely any animation anywhere else and Fate/Zero 2 had poor animation for ufotable standards.

Anime needs to cut down from 100+ shows per year to 20 and companies need to learn how to market. That would surely be better. That would allow for more full animation and less crap, since we all know Sturgeon's Law.

Also, why doesn't anime have real mouth movements? For all this talk of "realistic physics" where's the mouth movements. Lip syncing is easy. EVERY AMERICAN CARTOON HAS IT!

reanimator wrote:

Quote:

Anime production came up with committee-based sponsorship in more than 20 years ago, so wouldn't this be right time for them to explore other ways to get more budget without ditching current system?

Because it still works? It may not be the most efficient system but it still produces a lot of anime. There may also be a factor of "but we have always done it this way". While every anime has a new production committee, I strongly suspect that most production committees draw from a small pool and involve people who have worked together in the past and expect to work together in the future. Also, more members means more voices that have to be listened to and a smaller portion of what ever income is received.

As a fan I'm interested in how anime is put together. However, as a practical matter I'm of the opinion that nothing you or I or anyone on a North American anime forum can say or do is going to have any impact on how anime is made in Japan. All the theorizing we may do as to finances or content is just like making sand castles with a rising tide. The next topic to come along will simply wash away all our suggestions. Even if it were obvious that the entire Japanese anime industry was headed down the path to ruin and dissolution, all we could do is get some pop corn, put our feet up and watch. Fortunately that does not appear to be the case.

relyat08 wrote:

Yeah, I know. I think it's worth noting that that is just the streaming license though. Who knows what it costs for the Home Video rights, music, etc.

I don't know where you got the idea those were streaming licenses, given that the lawsuit is stated in the article as taking place in 2007. Try naming any companies that were engaged in legal streaming of anime in 2007, and perhaps you'll see the problem. The licenses themselves were even older than that.

Quote:

If that 24 episode show did cost $4 million, that license is nearly a quarter of it's cost,...

As I noted, that license was considered outrageously expensive. The average cost per title for those ADV home video licenses listed was just under $300,000.

As to streaming, we do have a idea of what the cost was in 2012:
animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-09

Quote:

Now, each anime costs a licensing fee (or "Minimum Guarantee") of $1-2,000 per episode for simulcast internet streaming rights.

There are indications those costs have ballooned since then, but it seems doubtful they've approached those inflated home video license costs of the past.

I have a table of costs for both anime and US animated shows. I no longer have any idea where it came from.

yuna49 wrote:

Those figures from ADV have nothing to do with streaming; those were the licensing fees ADV paid to produce R1 DVDs. Streaming didn't even exist when those shows were licensed.

oops.

I grabbed the link from another site that was discussing CR licensing costs and didn't look at it thoroughly... I'm turned upside down and all over the place right now.

It's amazing how easy it is to come up with a solution to The Great Anime Problem when you just assume it will magically result in making 10-20x the amount of money or otherwise ignore any additional costs that need to be covered.

Also, if you're going to treat Sturgeon's Law as some sort of law of nature, cutting the number of shows made by 80% means you're getting 80% fewer good shows, not just getting rid of the bad ones.

Shiroi Hane wrote:

I have a table of costs for both anime and US animated shows. I no longer have any idea where it came from.

I don't really think comparing the production costs of anime and US animated shows is particularly fair. In addition to the enormous domestic market for US animation, there's also a much larger international market. In TV, Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon both own channels across the world that at least try and mirror their US counterpart. In film, most animation studios are backed by a huge distributor, so there's more incentive for them to be given a greater international push. Whereas Ghibli is mostly reliant on it's distributing partners, generally independents.

I'm sure, if the market was able to support it, anime would be that expensive too.

Also, there's huge variation in years, and it probably doesn't account for inflation. That doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me...

Brand wrote:

The pilot for Lost was something like $11.5m, so yeah 2 mill doesn't sound that crazy at all. I'm kind of surprised there isn't much toy tie in anime anymore, that would seem to be the way to go in terms of money.

People running around a jungle doing pointless things cost that much? Overpaid actors.

Is animation industry in Japan in artificial bubble like the US Housing industry was?

Way everyone describes stuff, the industry seems to be stretching it's resources to bring anime to the masses that willing give back for their favorites. Like Monster Musame's 8-foot pillow, the thing sold at 800 bucks a pop and it sold out in a hour. Bodes well for short term, but does that work in the long haul?

In the 1980s, the anime series were partially being funded by toy industry, such as Macross had numerous toys and music being sold.
Gundam (somehow) still survivies on model/gunpla sales among it's other offerings. The fans of that genre are aging though.

I know the industry needs to go where money is, but how is Anime now just advertising platform for Manga/Light Novels proving revenue aside from basic merchandising?

Buzz201 wrote:

Fortunately, Aniplex of America seem to realise this and have allowed significant discounts on UK releases of their titles.

The UK and Japan also have different BD region codes, so that likely plays a factor.

Rederoin wrote:

MrBonk wrote:

Yeah, well maybe more people would buy those discs if they were not so asininely priced.

Lowering the prices does not increase the sales enough for it to be worth it.
From what I know, renting BDs is still very normal in Japan.

Some publishers have experimented with lower prices in the past, and it didn't result in any significant increases in units sold.

Forum - View topic
INTEREST: Anime Insiders Share How Much Producing a Season Costs

This Week in Anime - So, Is Sound Euphonium Queerbaiting or Not?

Wonderful Precure! Episodes 1-12 Anime Review

That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime: The Ways of Monster Nation Manga Ends Due to Artist's Health

Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire Dips to #3 in 4th Weekend, SPY×FAMILY Film Debuts at #5 at U.S. Box Office

Dead Dead Demon's Dededede Destruction Part 1 Anime Film Review

Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes Game Review

Forum - View topicINTEREST: Anime Insiders Share How Much Producing a Season Costs

Forum

Forum - View topic
INTEREST: Anime Insiders Share How Much Producing a Season Costs