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NEWS: Ghost in the Shell Arise Writer Tow Ubukata Arrested on Charges of Domestic Violence


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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:36 pm Reply with quote
CCTakato wrote:
To be perfectly frank, I find it rather disgusting people on this thread seem more concerned about the future of this loser's career than they are about the safety of his wife and the misogynists are crawling out to already assume the woman must be the liar here when you have zero proof she's lying. Yet people wonder why anime fans get stereotyped when you defend misogynistic violence like this. You people need to get over yourself and care about something other than the fate of your precious cartoons.


My sincere apologies, my fellow user. You are indeed correct, and I believe wholeheartedly to your perfect explanation of which occurred. May I just inquire what are you sources you obviously have that she isn't lying, because that would certainly be a first. Until then, if you agree, I think it would be best to wait until further information is available.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:40 pm Reply with quote
Hameyadea wrote:

My sincere apologies, my fellow user. You are indeed correct, and I believe wholeheartedly to your perfect explanation of which occurred. May I just inquire what are you sources you obviously have that she isn't lying, because that would certainly be a first. Until then, if you agree, I think it would be best to wait until further information is available.


Did you seriously just insinuate that if she isn't lying about domestic abuse in which an arrest has been made that she'd be the FIRST woman ever who didn't lie about it?

You need to clarify or redact this very quickly or I will kick you and your over-the-top woman-hating garbage out of these forums forever and with zero remorse.

Holy god. The things that come out of people's mouths.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:41 pm Reply with quote
CCTakato wrote:
To be perfectly frank, I find it rather disgusting people on this thread seem more concerned about the future of this loser's career than they are about the safety of his wife and the misogynists are crawling out to already assume the woman must be the liar here when you have zero proof she's lying.


I find it disgusting that you are perfectly fine with dolling out punishment and judgment based on nothing more than an accusation with no investigation. Absolutely disgusting how you can have such a lack of respect for civil rights.

And maybe you read different posts than I did because I didn't read a single post in the entire thread saying that the woman must be the liar. Maybe you should go reread the posts before you start calling people names.
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SilverTalon01



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:44 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Did you seriously just insinuate that if she isn't lying about domestic abuse in which an arrest has been made that she'd be the FIRST woman ever who didn't lie about it?


He was clearly just implying that such a thing has happened so lets not judge people guilty the second they are accused.

Are fake reports more common than legitimate ones? I seriously doubt it. However, there is a reason people get a trial and not sentenced by the cops who arrest them.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:46 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:

I find it disgusting that you are perfectly fine with dolling out punishment and judgment based on nothing more than an accusation with no investigation. Absolutely disgusting how you can have such a lack of respect for civil rights.

And maybe you read different posts than I did because I didn't read a single post in the entire thread saying that the woman must be the liar. Maybe you should go reread the posts before you start calling people names.


Reading through this thread it is extremely clear that plenty of people, the usual suspects in fact - yourself included - are responding with immediate skepticism about the arrest and showing much more concern for Ubukata's career before even considering the fact that he was just arrested for domestic violence. Anyone reading this thread can see it - there's plenty of "polite" language used, weasely ways of wording "I think she's lying", but it's all in there.

This sort of thing is frustrating to read when you aren't the type of person who immediately leaps to the defense of any man accused of violence, sexual or otherwise, against a woman.
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Crisha
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:53 pm Reply with quote
Everyone, do not make this become a judgmental debate with both sides calling people names. It's an awful situation, regardless, so treat this situation sensitively. Think before you hit that "Submit" button.

At this point, there is little information to go off of. I hope they get proper justice and support.


EDIT: I want to apologize, "respect" was a poor choice of wording, thinking on it.


Last edited by Crisha on Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:09 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:53 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Did you seriously just insinuate that if she isn't lying about domestic abuse in which an arrest has been made that she'd be the FIRST woman ever who didn't lie about it?

You need to clarify or redact this very quickly or I will kick you and your over-the-top woman-hating garbage out of these forums forever and with zero remorse.

Holy god. The things that come out of people's mouths.


How asking for a source to a claim based on information which wasn't presented in the article, and showing that *gasp* women -- just like men -- can lie as well, is in any way, shape, or form a "woman-hating garbage"?

And apparently sarcasm really doesn't transfer across non-verbal communication, but let's try another dosage: are these "women-hating garbage" articles as well? See? Rape is a real thing which is proven at the courthouse, however, throwing around accusations based on preliminary and incomplete information (until the user I quoted can provide their source) just doesn't sit well with me, either.

Also, do note that in the false accusation sources I provided, the male victim was arrested almost immediately, so taking that the accused was arrested as some sort of proof can be problematic.


Last edited by Hameyadea on Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:58 pm; edited 3 times in total
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SilverTalon01



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:55 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Reading through this thread it is extremely clear that plenty of people, the usual suspects in fact - yourself included - are responding with immediate skepticism about the arrest and showing much more concern for Ubukata's career before even considering the fact that he was just arrested for domestic violence. Anyone reading this thread can see it - there's plenty of "polite" language used, weasely ways of wording "I think she's lying", but it's all in there.

This sort of thing is frustrating to read when you aren't the type of person who immediately leaps to the defense of any man accused of violence, sexual or otherwise, against a woman.


Um, none of my posts in this thread expressed concern for his career. Yes, some people did, but I certainly did not so don't lump me in there.

I'm also not skeptical about his arrest. I believe being accused by his wife is plenty reason to arrest him.

What I am skeptical about is his guilt. And you should be skeptical about it too. A person isn't guilty when charged. They are innocent until proven guilty. Or are you advocating for a system where police sentence people with no trial? I happen to be a big believer in civil rights which what you seem to be all for tramples over.

I wouldn't show a shred of sympathy or skepticism towards him if the article reported that he was convicted. It didn't though.
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CCTakato



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:57 pm Reply with quote
Thank you Zac for posting that. I'm glad I'm not the only one extremely bothered by the responses in this thread. It's hypocritical that people claim that we shouldn't judge this guy until evidence that never seems to be enough for the misogynists surfaces yet they seem to have no problem already passing judgment on his wife. If you're assuming that the guy is innocent, then by de facto, you're assuming the wife must be lying about it for some nefarious reason. It's the same reaction misogynists always use to demonize women who come out about this kind of thing and I'm tired of these excuses. I love GITS as much as the next anime fan, but at the end of the day, it's just entertainment and personally I find someone's personal safety to be much more important than how it makes a favorite cartoon look. And making this out that I'm somehow taking away this guy's civic rights is absurd and gross.
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dtm42



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Gozu Tennai's comment where he expressed more concern for Tow's career than his wife's wellbeing was definitely out of line.

But the news article simply has too little information for us to say what really happened. And that's the problem in these sorts of cases; they are almost never recorded (either on camera or microphone) and witnesses are rare. That makes coming up with enough evidence to secure a conviction - or to restore a reputation - almost impossible. I don't envy the judge or jury who has to decide who is right. That's assuming it even gets to trial in the first place - so few cases do.


Last edited by dtm42 on Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:01 pm Reply with quote
CCTakato wrote:
Thank you Zac for posting that. I'm glad I'm not the only one extremely bothered by the responses in this thread. It's hypocritical that people claim that we shouldn't judge this guy until evidence that never seems to be enough for the misogynists surfaces yet they seem to have no problem already passing judgment on his wife. If you're assuming that the guy is innocent, then by de facto, you're assuming the wife must be lying about it for some nefarious reason.


False dichotomy right here. "If A said that B has done something, and you don't go after B, then you've taken B's side and now you are against A"

What happened to "not reaching a conclusion until further information is available"? Option C is still out there, you know.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:04 pm Reply with quote
All that goes the other way too. You have absolutely no reason to doubt the accusation or instinctively think the arrest was made on false pretenses or with no evidence. Anyone saying anything about this case, one way or the other, other than "well we don't know for sure, let's let the justice system figure it out" is engaging in unfair speculation.

The forums have a rash of people - and I've seen both you and SilverTalon01 do this, because you've made it very clear to me and others who complain about your behavior what your political leanings are - who immediately and instinctively leap to the defense of any man who is accused of a crime involving a woman. She's lying, look at all these cases where a woman falsely accused someone, "I'm just asking questions" "I'm just showing where this has happened before" "I'm just saying it's not fair to say he's guilty" and it happens in every single case like this. The reason people think this is misogynist is because they recognize a pattern of behavior with you specifically and other members of the forum who do the same thing, not because they're kneejerk reactionaries angry at anyone who might besmirch a woman's name.

If you don't understand how you come across, that's on you, not on anyone else. Not on the people who reported your post, and not on me.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:05 pm Reply with quote
CCTakato wrote:
If you're assuming that the guy is innocent, then by de facto, you're assuming the wife must be lying about it for some nefarious reason.


Or you could similarly give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she is honest until proven dishonest. But people like you are just quick to judge so I could see why you would take it there.

CCTakato wrote:
And making this out that I'm somehow taking away this guy's civic rights is absurd and gross.


What is gross is that you actually want to take away his civil rights, and yes that is exactly what you are advocating. You want to deny him the right to be innocent until proven guilty without a trial. So I'm guessing you are all for things like Guantanamo Bay and people being detained there without a trial or due process? Because that is exactly what you want to do to this man, and frankly, I think that is disgusting.
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CCTakato



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:12 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:

What is gross is that you actually want to take away his civil rights, and yes that is exactly what you are advocating. You want to deny him the right to be innocent until proven guilty without a trial. So I'm guessing you are all for things like Guantanamo Bay and people being detained there without a trial or due process? Because that is exactly what you want to do to this man, and frankly, I think that is disgusting.
Your attempts to mock how I made my posts are not cute and are insulting. Stop it.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:13 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:


What is gross is that you actually want to take away his civil rights, and yes that is exactly what you are advocating. You want to deny him the right to be innocent until proven guilty without a trial. So I'm guessing you are all for things like Guantanamo Bay and people being detained there without a trial or due process? Because that is exactly what you want to do to this man, and frankly, I think that is disgusting.


The fake outrage is basically trolling. Knock it off.
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