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Ponycan USA Details Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers Home Video Release


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Alan45
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:26 pm Reply with quote
@SouthPacific

I'm not suggesting that AoA is going out of business, or even doing badly. However, considering what they are doing 10+ employees is not all that impressive. What I'm saying is that you don't know how profitable they are and neither do I.

The question raised here was if AoA's business model could work for Pony Canyon. I don't know and neither do you. We will just have to wait.

And I should mention that someone being emotional about the fact that they don't like Pony Canyon's prices is perfectly valid.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:52 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
MagusGuardian wrote:
well, I can honestly say that I'm probably never going to see this

If you live in North America, you can always watch the Crunchyroll stream instead of complaining, you know.


Streaming is for people who like watching anime now. Buying is for those that want to watch it forever.
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SouthPacific



Joined: 24 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:06 pm Reply with quote
No, you were suggesting, or rather, you were stating that I argued with emotion rather than numbers. And now that i've provided numbers you're attempting to steer away the focus from just that.

Oh and I never said that I knew how profitable they are. But the fact that they're still around in 2015 and have continously added new employees indicates that they are indeed profiting.

And while similiar, I'd have to say that PonyCan aren't 100% copying the same business model that AoA are using. So it's not really a question of AoA's business model working for PonyCan, but more a question of PonyCan's business model working for PonyCan. Time will tell.

Lastly, i'll mention that someone being emotional about -insert something subjective here- is also perfectly valid.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:59 pm Reply with quote
@SouthPacific

I would like to point out that you did not provide any facts for your argument until I challenged you. I'm not impressed by your facts, but I'll leave it at that.

What I don't understand is why you or anyone else should think that either AoA's or Pony Canyon's prices should be welcomed by anyone in the North American market. I realize that we have to accept their prices if we want the shows they sell legally. However, I have yet to see any real advantage to the average consumer that would make us applaud their entry into the market. The only type of fan I can see helped by them is the sort of idiot who has more money than good sense and thinks he has something special because some others are priced out of the market.

I especially don't understand why you would care since you have stated you are not part of the North American market, or did I misunderstand you?
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TarsTarkas



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:10 pm Reply with quote
The problem is not that they have high priced collector's editions, but rather they have no intention of having standard edition BDs. As KnK and Fate/Zero attest to.
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SouthPacific



Joined: 24 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:21 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
The problem is not that they have high priced collector's editions, but rather they have no intention of having standard edition BDs. As KnK and Fate/Zero attest to.


I can definitely agree with this, pretty much in the same way I think it's a problem that companies like Sentai Filmworks and others release so many standard editions, but very few collector's editions.

Alan45 wrote:
@SouthPacific
The only type of fan I can see helped by them is the sort of idiot who has more money than good sense and thinks he has something special because some others are priced out of the market.


Calling people idiots because they buy anime from a certain company? Yeah, there really isn't any point in me replying to you if that's the mindset you've got. You weren't polite to begin with, but that's the limit for me.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:33 am Reply with quote
@SouthPacific

That was probably a poor choice of words, but I did not state that buying from AoA makes one an idiot. However, thinking that doing so somehow makes you special or better than people who can't afford their prices does.

I have myself bought a number of AoA titles. It doesn't make me anything but poorer. Unfortunately it is the only way I can obtain the shows in question. I don't pirate anything and I'm not interested in importing from another region.

You still haven't said why you think their higher prices are of any advantage to me or any other member of the North American market.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:08 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
Streaming is for people who like watching anime now. Buying is for those that want to watch it forever.

I'd guess the size of the first group far exceeds the size of the second group. I can't recall the last time I rewatched a show for which I own the DVD/BD release. In many cases, if I have both the physical release and a fansub, I'll choose the latter because it's easier to bring it up on my computer and watch the entire series without having to switch discs. I doubt I'm alone in this.

Just as a guess, I'd bet the proportion of younger viewers who buy physical releases has declined considerably over the past decade. That's certainly true for services like Netflix and Hulu and the trend toward "cable-cutting." My 23-yo daughter has no interest in cable television nor buying physical media. She watches everything over the Internet, and most of her friends do as well.

I know there is a core group of collectors on this site, but if you go to places like MAL you'll see collectors make up a very tiny fraction of the people there. Even the notion of paying $8/month for a CR or Funimation subscription is unacceptable to them. Here are two representative threads:

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1424825
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=264087

So now we live in a world where CR invests the money to sub a show, its stream is ripped by Horrible, and the rip is distributed freely on illegal sites like Kiss.

Distributors like Aniplex know this as well as I do. That's why they charge $10/episode for shows like Madoka and Kill la Kill. Most physical releases are now sold to a small and declining portion of the anime fanbase whose enthusiasm makes them relatively insensitive to pricing, just like the otaku market in Japan.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:22 am Reply with quote
SouthPacific--

If you're going to report that a posting is "Insulting/trolling," then you're going to have to provide a rationale for such a report. Because you didn't (And why am I not surprised about that?), I am closing your report with extreme prejudice.
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SouthPacific



Joined: 24 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:40 am Reply with quote
nobahn wrote:
SouthPacific--

If you're going to report that a posting is "Insulting/trolling," then you're going to have to provide a rationale for such a report. Because you didn't (And why am I not surprised about that?), I am closing your report with extreme prejudice.


From "Teh Rules":

Quote:
1. Above all else: Be Polite


I know moderating differs from person to person, but if you as a moderator think that blatantly calling people idiots is considered within the bounds of that rule then so be it.

Though it's obvious by your post that you've got something against me. Not that it bothers me in the slightest, but you'd think a moderator would at least try to appear objective.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:52 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
I'd guess the size of the first group far exceeds the size of the second group. I can't recall the last time I rewatched a show for which I own the DVD/BD release. In many cases, if I have both the physical release and a fansub, I'll choose the latter because it's easier to bring it up on my computer and watch the entire series without having to switch discs. I doubt I'm alone in this.

This. Precisely THIS. We now live in an age where the digital trumps the physical in convenience. It may not apply to everyone, but it sure does apply to me personally. And a lot of other people. And thank [insert favorite deity/other] for that.

If I buy a disc release of a show, it means the show was special to me, enough to have such a memento of it (mind you, it could as well be a figure, an artbook, other kind of adaptation(manga, light novel), something else). I don't use those discs to actually watch the show, nor do the discs make me in any way special or somehow entitled. It simply means whatever I watched touched me deeply...

Quote:
So now we live in a world where CR invests the money to sub a show, its stream is ripped by Horrible, and the rip is distributed freely on illegal sites like Kiss.

At least those offsite versions, whether streaming or downloadable, have the advantage of being completely region- and delay-free...
Though I understand CR's position too, it's more up to the licensors back in Japan than them. But your quote underscores also why it'll be a snowy forecast in hell before region-blocking actually works in practice, no matter the intentions behind. Missing shows are one of the reasons I prefer my watching in downloadable format even while having their subscription. But mostly it is probably out of convenience and habit...

Reason I'm personally doubtful of PonyCan's success here in the West with their current model, is that unlike AoA theirs don't have the 'hits' to back it up... But that's probably already been said a few times over in this thread. And considering the sales of Rokka in Japan, well, we'll see what the future holds...
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SpacemanHardy



Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:07 pm Reply with quote
SouthPacific wrote:
I know moderating differs from person to person, but if you as a moderator think that blatantly calling people idiots is considered within the bounds of that rule then so be it.


He didn't call you anything of the sort. He simply challenged your beliefs with his own.

Quote:
Though it's obvious by your post that you've got something against me. Not that it bothers me in the slightest, but you'd think a moderator would at least try to appear objective.


He's not the only one. Lots of people on this forum have a problem with you. You may not realize it, but you have a tendency to come across as extremely condescending and snobbish to people who disagree with you. You're also guilty of handing out back-handed compliments and sugar-coated insults, and have even at times been guilty of xenophobia with some of your comments about Americans. And just like now, whenever someone calls you out on it, you go run and hide behind the mods playing all innocent so that you come across as the victim.

You're an instigator, a manipulator, and a troll-baiter. And quite frankly, some of us on the forums are sick and tired of it. Confused

nobahn, I'm sorry if I'm going against the forum rules by posting this, and feel free to delete or edit this post if you must, but I simply had to let this out.
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SouthPacific



Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 689
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:51 pm Reply with quote
SpaceMan, I don't know how you're able to exert so much energy to follow my posts and respond to them as much as you have. I have never been stalked before, but I would guess this is as close as it gets through the internet.

And if it is true that lots of people on this forum have a problem with me I wouldn't be surprised. Out of each and every anime forum I have been, and still am active on ANN is by far the most polarized out of all, except one group far outweighs the other which is why essentially all forum discussions regarding Aniplex of America & PonyCan USA end up incredibly one-sided.

As a prime example i'll present you with this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/3mo4gu/rokka_getting_a_us_release_by_ponycan_usa/

This is just one of many, but no one can argue agains the fact that the smaller pool of active posters on ANN tend to share the same opinions on certain matters. Which is also why I make very few posts on here anymore.

E:
Quote:
guilty of xenophobia with some of your comments about Americans.


I would really like some proof of this.

Speaking of xenophobia, I don't know how many times you've said that my opinions on things like the American anime industry doesn't matter simply because i'm not American. What would you call that?
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:30 pm Reply with quote
@SouthPacific

You have been cheerleading for AoA for years. Now you have picked up Pony Canyon for similar reasons. Your refrain that very high prices are somehow good for the market approaches a broken record. No one has to stalk you. If there is a discussion of high priced collector editions on the site you are almost always there soap boxing in favor of the higher prices.

You have been attempting to tell the North American anime industry how to conduct their business for this whole time. Then you state you do not live in the area and with few exceptions do not participate in the area's products. You have had the gall to tell people that they need to defer other purchases and save up to afford AoA's pricy goods and then state that you only have a few of them (three was it you mentioned?) and that you pirate any show where the legal release does not come up to your requirements. You have yet to explain why you think we should be glad to pay the higher prices and what advantage accrues to people in North America if they do.

While I agree that having people complain incessantly about AoA and Pony Canyon's prices does get annoying. The complaints are pointless as the prices are legal and are not going away. However your constant refrain that such prices are a good thing is even more annoying. If you are going to continue it, you can expect people to continue to get upset with you.
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One-Eye



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:52 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
TarsTarkas wrote:
Streaming is for people who like watching anime now. Buying is for those that want to watch it forever.
...I can't recall the last time I rewatched a show for which I own the DVD/BD release. In many cases, if I have both the physical release and a fansub, I'll choose the latter because it's easier to bring it up on my computer and watch the entire series without having to switch discs. I doubt I'm alone in this.
I don't buy anime for first time view, I buy it to collect. I also rewatch as a matter of fact I'm rewatching Garden of Sinners on BD now. I also don't find it onerous to stand up and switch out discs. Some people also have difficulty with poor internet connections or lack of services in their area, so streaming isn't an option. You can ask Touma here in the forums about that.

Quote:
Just as a guess, I'd bet the proportion of younger viewers who buy physical releases has declined considerably over the past decade.
I doubt that many teens and early 20-somethings were hardcore collectors in the VHS and DVD singles era. For most young people the cash flow isn't there to indulge freely. So, I'm not sure if in that age group there is currently such a precipitous drop as there probably wasn't a ton that could afford it.

Quote:
I know there is a core group of collectors on this site, but if you go to places like MAL you'll see collectors make up a very tiny fraction of the people there. Even the notion of paying $8/month for a CR or Funimation subscription is unacceptable to them.
I agree with some of this, but some of the attitude of the younger generation of not wanting to pay for legal product was due to the rise of piracy and ease of getting said pirated material. Not because of legal streams. However, I think that you are correct that the rise of legal streaming options has affected many industries and how people consume media. I also think that more and more people will be streaming their content as we go into the future, but the death knell for physical media isn't quite around the block.

Quote:
Distributors like Aniplex know this as well as I do. That's why they charge $10/episode for shows like Madoka and Kill la Kill. Most physical releases are now sold to a small and declining portion of the anime fanbase whose enthusiasm makes them relatively insensitive to pricing, just like the otaku market in Japan.
No, AoA uses this as an excuse "you can always watch it streaming." Again that doesn't help some one who wants to own and collect it. So I guess I'll fire up GoS on Hulu? No, not there. How about Crunchyroll, Crackle, etc? Nope can't find it. How about something old like the ROD OVA. Out of luck, can't stream it. Also in an Answerman column Justin commented on the glut of content, so much so that hulu has been refusing stuff. So is streaming a complete answer? Will it always have what you want? No, but some would like you to believe that. Its not why they charge $10/episode, they've been charging high prices since day one not because of streaming.


SpacemanHardy wrote:
...And quite frankly, some of us on the forums are sick and tired of it. Confused
@SouthPacific. There's a lot I could say here, but I'm just going to leave it that I agree with some of the sentiments that SpacemanHardy expressed. You aren't fooling everybody.
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