Forum - View topicAnswerman - What Would've Saved Manglobe?
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Alan45
Village Elder
Posts: 9807 Location: Virginia |
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@Joe Mello
Since there appears to be shortage of animators and other types who actually work on the show, I doubt we are even losing that. What I want to know is who on permanent staff at Manglobe that would establish a specific studio style is now broken up to work at other studios? |
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noblesse oblige
Posts: 277 Location: Florida |
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If you value animation studios that routinely endeavor to create risky, original stories (Samurai Champloo, Ergo Proxy, Michiko & Hatchin, Samurai Flamenco), then yes, it's a significant loss to the industry. These kinds of studios seems to be in incredibly short supply these days and dwindling, so yeah, I'll miss it. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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That sounds like a diminishing market, where the only companies that survive are the ones that make similar-looking things while innovation is largely ignored. In other words, casting as wide a net as possible seems to be the only way to even survive, and that doesn't sound good for the business.
Which makes me wonder: Are they paid a lot? I see a lot of articles here talking about how animators, regardless of their rank, have very low wages. If skilled animators are in high demand, then theoretically, they should be getting paid a lot as an incentive for them to stay. |
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Alan45
Village Elder
Posts: 9807 Location: Virginia |
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leafy sea dragon wrote:
Studios have two basic tasks that they need to do. First they have to provide quality work on time. This is most likely the most significant factor in their getting new contracts. The better they are at this the more they can charge for their services. Second, they need to manage their internal finances. The difference between what they are paid by the production committee and what they pay their employees is their profit. If they fail at the first task they don't get any work, if they fail at the second they don't make any money. By the end they are likely failing at both as Manglobe appears to have done. As far as making risky, innovative shows with their own money, if that is what they did with those shows, that is all well and good but they still have to make money. Lose too much money on too many occasions and you go out of business. It is a simple fact of life. |
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher Posts: 10419 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Unless they are part of the production committee, they won't see any direct revenue from merchandise sales. That said, if the continually make anime that creates a lot of merchandise sales, production committees, especially the members with the merchandise rights, will want them to do more work. Likewise, as Justin mentioned, the animation studios usually don't earn money directly from good sales of the of the titles they work on. However they are likely to be given more work as a result of the success of their past projects.
If piracy of any suddenly did magically dissapear, or diminish significantly, and revenue from media sales and streaming went up as a result, it would benefit everyone in the industry, including the animation studios, ANN, voice-actors, animators etc... They might not earn more money directly, but there would be more budget to spend with them. Ayres isn't overlooking it. He probably understands well the complexities, but simplifies them for his audience.
No. Individual animators are not paid a lot. In-betweeners barely make a living wage. Key animators and supervisors make an okay wage, but even animation directors are merely eking out a modest middle class lifestyle. Because of this, a lot of them are leaving for other industries like video-gaming, where the wages are better. |
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher Posts: 10419 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Where did you get this figure ? 400 million yen from only the animation studio (even though they are on the committee) seems very high. They wouldn't be responsible for the entire budget, most of the other production committee members would have also put in money. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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So skilled animators are in high demand, but the budgets the animation studios get aren't enough to provide them the paycheck incentive to stay at particular companies?
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GATSU
Posts: 15279 |
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Buzz:
Works better than them begging Kickstarter backers for a place to effing sleep.
If that were to happen, those committees would just set up shop in SE Asian countries neighboring Japan, instead. Alan:
Uh, no. That's now how it works. Those greedy middlemen will simply exploit the animators even more, by paying them the same wages for a higher-tier product.
You can't manage finances, if your patron makes you financially insolvent. Tempest:
Yeah, more work which involves continually dicking these animation studios out of a piece of that merchandise pie while paying them a pittance for their work which helped make the merch sales viable in the first place. |
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Alan45
Village Elder
Posts: 9807 Location: Virginia |
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@GATSU
I think you misunderstand me. I was talking about the studio making a profit not the animators being better paid. If the studio can develop a reputation for producing quality work on time they are more likely to be hired by the next production committee that needs a studio. Eventually they can charge more for their services. Note that this does not directly relate to how they treat their employees. Indirectly, in order to produce quality work on time you need good employees and may have to pay a bit more to them. I was talking about the studio managing their internal finances. Not paying your employees any more that you actually have to is an example of such management. Certainly if a production committee will not pay enough to cover your expenses you are going to be insolvent. However, accepting work at a loss, or worse yet not knowing what your expenses will be is an example of bad management. Exactly who do you mean when you refer to "greedy bastards"? The only people I see getting rich here are some members of the production committee. They are the ones putting up the money and accepting the risk. That is generally the way it works. The more risk you take the greater the piece of the pie when things go right. I don't see that changing ever. |
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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This all seems relevant to a question I mailed Justin in the past, but he didn't choose to answer. Does no one in the creative side of the industry collect "residuals" like they do here in America? Most actors depend on those monthly residual checks, especially people who appear in commercials. Is the model of flat fees up front and no profit-sharing depending on a show's performance characteristic of the entire Japanese entertainment industry, or just the anime industry?
I suspect part of the difference may have to do with unionization. Entertaimment craft unions have traditionally been strong in the US. I don't have the sense that anyone working in anime is unionized. Is that true? I'd like think that Sakurai Takahiro collected a few yen when I bought Mononoke after its release in R1 last year. |
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Yerld
Posts: 60 |
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There's profit sharing for certain individuals, such as directors, writers, and creators on anime original productions. You don't have to worry about top seiyuu since they're the high earners of the industry. Some command over $1 million US a year, with the average (amongst top rank seiyuu/singers, whatever that means) estimated to be around $700,000 US a year. They're celebrities in their own way and have been deemed a huge selling point, hence they reap the rewards (on the flipside, unpopular seiyuu make peanuts). In that sense, it's not that there's no money to be made. Popular seiyuu, sound directors (since there are so few of them, and they're needed for every show), song writers, and scriptwriters can do very well. However, there is huge inequality in pay, and the people who tend to suffer the most are the "laborers" in production, such as animators. |
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Desslok
Posts: 178 |
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So I guess that pretty much kills any chance of getting Samurai Flamenco on disc here in the states. Damn.
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st_owly
Posts: 5234 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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It's coming out in the UK if you're OK with importing. |
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Desslok
Posts: 178 |
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It's not an ideal solution, but it'll do! I HAVE have my Samurai Flamenco on!
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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But not, I take it, on adaptations of existing material? My sense is that original productions constitute a quarter or less of the series produced each year. For adaptations do the studios just collect a flat fee and no residuals? As for those seiyuu salaries, do they include earnings from singing and other activities outside of voice acting? I can imagine someone like Kanazawa Hana making a good living through her singing career. But what about "B-list" seiyuu who can't sing and aren't the kinds of names that would draw people to buy anime releases? Some of them presumably work in the videogame industry, which probably pays better than anime, and some dub foreign movies as well. I have noticed, though, that animated films generally have an entirely distinct cast from made-for-TV anime. I watched Kaguya-hime recently and didn't recognize anyone in that cast. It seems like the film seiyuu and the TV seiyuu inhabit different worlds. |
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