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Answerman - Do Edited-For-Television Versions Of Anime Get Preserved?


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bj_waters



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:28 pm Reply with quote
JEArgumedo wrote:
Hey everyone,

I wanted to really quickly chime in as to what happens to these tapes from at least the broadcasters end. I've been working in television for years now and while there's slight differences to how certain networks preserve things, they all pretty much save everything they air. I also went through getting stuff from our archive for the upcoming IGPX release. (I currently work for Turner Broadcasting, by the way)

...

PS: Tape is really resilient when cared for properly. I've dived very far back and found some great stuff for work that holds up extremely well. And remember, these aren't simple VHS tapes, these are Betacam SP or Digibeta tapes that are capable of displaying a much higher quality that's needed for broadcast and are designed not to degrade in quality when stored or copied.


Any chance that the footage from those tapes might randomly get . . . ahem . . . leaked online? Very Happy

Well, it's probably not worth losing your job over! Thanks for sharing, anyways! It's nice to know many of them exist somewhere.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:36 pm Reply with quote
wonderwomanhero wrote:
I remember the one Sailor Moon S episode featuring Mimette and some villain was censored cause the monster of the day had starfish over her breasts....or didn't? I can't exactly remember but it was censored when aired. Not sure if it shows on the DVD edit.


I definitely recall watching an episode like that, and I got most of my Sailor Moon via Cartoon Network, but I can't remember if I saw it on Cartoon Network or found it elsewhere. I am 80% sure I saw it on Cartoon Network though.

Those monsters-of-the-week where rarely ever censored much, if I recall correctly. I guess S&P wasn't cool with skimpily-dressed heroes but were fine if villains did it.

doubleO7 wrote:
4Kids (or whatever they're called now) licensed shows are the closest equivalent we have that old mindset of "this show needs to be changed to appeal to American children," while mostly ignoring actual anime fans as a potential target audience. The big difference is, unlike back in the 80's, there actually is a large fandom that knows of these shows before they ever make their way to the English-speaking market, and most of us would rather just have them uncut.


Well, that'll probably change once Glitter Force airs.

Alan45 wrote:
The only dub done in the US was for the show Cardcaptors. This involved rearranged and missing episodes and heavy editing. It is also incomplete. The stated purpose was to make Shaoran the main character in order to appeal to boys. They were apparently convinced that girls would not watch the show.


Is it worth mentioning that he was also consistently referred to as "Li" rather than "Shaoran"? They do spell it as "Li" though and not as "Lee" as I would've expected though.

But I guess this was before stuff like Xiaolin Showdown, Jackie Chan Adventures, and Kung Fu Panda came out that demonstrated that no, American children can watch fiction where people have Chinese names.

JEArgumedo wrote:
Hey everyone,

Obviously it's not available to the public for multitudes of reasons like losing rights to air it, not having the right to distribute it, music issues, etc, but we hold on to it, because if we get the license back (like say, Cowboy Bebop) we can just run the old tape (now long since digitized and upscaled to 1080i HD) without taking up any expense or time, unless there's a new version or an HD master of the show (like say, Cowboy Bebop) that looks better that we need new masters for.


Hey cool, it's you from the One Piece Podcast!

Regarding archiving this stuff, would there be the rare case of the original studio having lost that footage (whether due to their back-then lack of a desire to hold on to them, like Doctor Who; or a natural disaster destroys them, like Wallace & Gromit) and requesting the material? Toei seems to have problems finding things in their archives, so I'd imagine an organized, efficient, and complete archival system would be handy like that.
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:46 pm Reply with quote
@leafy sea dragon

You caught me, I honestly couldn't remember if it was spelled Lee or Li or some other variant. So I went in and pulled out The Sealed Card case. They used Shaoran on the back so that is what I used. It has been awhile, but I remember on the sub version of the TV series they consistently used one name while I was hearing the other. It was rather irritating once I noticed.
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JEArgumedo



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:48 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Hey cool, it's you from the One Piece Podcast!

Regarding archiving this stuff, would there be the rare case of the original studio having lost that footage (whether due to their back-then lack of a desire to hold on to them, like Doctor Who; or a natural disaster destroys them, like Wallace & Gromit) and requesting the material? Toei seems to have problems finding things in their archives, so I'd imagine an organized, efficient, and complete archival system would be handy like that.


Cool, thanks for listening to the One Piece Podcast.

As for your question, I can't really speak for those shows or any foreign network or studio's method of achieving as I've only worked in the US for Disney and Time Warner. Also, film and tape archiving are 2 very different things (film being far more work frankly). I can't imagine if a right's holder came looking for a copy of something that we happened to have, that we'd not give them a digitized copy. Never had that experience though, so I don't know for sure!
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Exalted Incarnate



Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 283
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:58 pm Reply with quote
TsukasaElkKite wrote:
"Jelly donuts are my favorite! Nothing beats a jelly filled donut." Laughing


Quote:
Well, you can't expect kids to know what an onigiri is if they don't live in an area with strong Japanese presense...or even if they do. Or their parents for that matter. I suppose calling them "rice balls" or "balls of rice" would help, as I'm sure every American knows what rice is, though again, rice is used very differently in Japanese cooking than in American cooking, and the types of rice common to the Americas are too loose to form into balls.


Um...onigiri is Roanoa zoro's sword attack.
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EmperorBrandon
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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Location: Springfield, MO
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:00 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
@leafy sea dragon

You caught me, I honestly couldn't remember if it was spelled Lee or Li or some other variant. So I went in and pulled out The Sealed Card case. They used Shaoran on the back so that is what I used. It has been awhile, but I remember on the sub version of the TV series they consistently used one name while I was hearing the other. It was rather irritating once I noticed.

His original name (in Chinese order, so family name comes first) is "Li Xiaolang" (spelled "Shaoran" in Geneon's release and sometimes "Syaoran" officially in other instances). In Cardcaptors, he was "Li Showron", though IIRC they acted like Li was his given name and "Showron" was his family name.

For what it's worth, many characters in the original Japanese version refer to him by family name. Meiling calls him by given name. I've read that NISA's subtitles always subtitle him by his given name regardless of what he's called (Geneon's release did not do that), and it kind of annoys me hearing that because spoiler[the name he is called by Sakura changes: it's an important part of an episode late in the series.]
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:13 pm Reply with quote
JEArgumedo wrote:
As for your question, I can't really speak for those shows or any foreign network or studio's method of achieving as I've only worked in the US for Disney and Time Warner. Also, film and tape archiving are 2 very different things (film being far more work frankly). I can't imagine if a right's holder came looking for a copy of something that we happened to have, that we'd not give them a digitized copy. Never had that experience though, so I don't know for sure!


That's fine. I wanted to know if you've seen any cases of the original company that made the show or movie come over to request it because they themselves had lost it. Thank you for answering!

Exalted Incarnate wrote:
Um...onigiri is Roanoa zoro's sword attack.


Yes, I know that. In both the Viz manga and the FUNimation dub, however, it becomes translated as "Demon Slasher." Also, One Piece in North America is aimed at a somewhat older crowd.

Unless you mean that 4Kids left Zoro's attack as "Onigiri."

By the way, most of Zoro's sword attack names are puns: They're names of food and menacing-sounding names that are homonymous. The wordplay wouldn't work in English, so it seems both Viz and FUNimation chose to just translate the menacing-sounding name and go with that.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:15 pm Reply with quote
@EmperorBrandon

Yes, I vaguely remember hearing "Li kun" and seeing Shaoran in the sub titles. And yes the change is significant.

This is why I usually come down in favor of the use of honorifics. At the very least when ever the show is set in Japan. It is usually significant as to relationships. While I understand those that say a translation should be transparent, anime, at least in the current market is mostly sold to people who understand why honorifics are used.
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Amara Tenoh



Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Posts: 333
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:18 pm Reply with quote
Darkabomination wrote:
I wish the uncut dub of CCS was taken out and released if the masters still exist. Odds are though if they could they would have released it on the blueray. Just sucks knowing there's an uncut version out there somewhere.


If you're talking about the Animax dub, it was released by Animax last year.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:19 pm Reply with quote
Exalted Incarnate wrote:


Quote:
Well, you can't expect kids to know what an onigiri is


Um...onigiri is Roanoa zoro's sword attack.


It also means riceball.
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Amara Tenoh



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:25 pm Reply with quote
@JEArgumedo

Stop spoonfeeding CabooseJR.
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Wandering Samurai



Joined: 30 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:29 pm Reply with quote
If you look around at a discount bargain bin store or something, you can probably find 4kids One Piece DVD's still floating around. For 99 cents maybe. Ugh.
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:48 pm Reply with quote
When I was younger, I was only allowed to get the edited tapes for DBZ (they weren't on DVD, except the movies), and I still have all dozen I got, except for one. Pioneer and FUNimation had awful VHS releases BTW, those things were always messing up! I also have many hours of old TV recordings of Cartoon Network on tape (commercials and all!), and there's plenty of stuff there too.

So this means there ARE still copies of the Sailor Moon DiC dub to use, should Viz want to reissue it. Although even if those were gone, they could always rip the ADV DVDs, which had decent-ish transfers. According to Viz, the original masters for the dub are mostly gone though.

If your heart desires the 4Kids One Piece dub, only the first half (50 episodes) of it is on DVD. The second half you'll have to find Cartoon Network rips.

It's really hard for TV recordings to die though. Odds are, SOMEONE was recording it SOMEWHERE. For years, people thought Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years was gone forever, but recently, someone uncovered TV rips of the entire series, and you can find them on YouTube and piracy websites. Ditty for the Harmony Gold version of Dragon Ball. Their version of Movies 1 & 3 survives through an off-air recording someone taped off of TV, and I think someone recently stumbled upon a copy of some of their TV episodes.
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Kadmos1



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:56 pm Reply with quote
I suppose this is even more of a question for the 60s broadcast shows. However, if a company can release them on DVD, I suppose there is some preservation available.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:05 pm Reply with quote
PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
It's really hard for TV recordings to die though. Odds are, SOMEONE was recording it SOMEWHERE. For years, people thought Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years was gone forever, but recently, someone uncovered TV rips of the entire series, and you can find them on YouTube and piracy websites. Ditty for the Harmony Gold version of Dragon Ball. Their version of Movies 1 & 3 survives through an off-air recording someone taped off of TV, and I think someone recently stumbled upon a copy of some of their TV episodes.


Yeah, that's why I brought up Doctor Who as an example earlier: During the beginning of the run, BBC didn't see any purpose in keeping their reels, so they just disposed of them. When the show became hugely popular with older people, however (or, I guess, the show's original audience grew up), the search for these lost seasons became rather intense until someone discovered a collection of old magnetic tape reels containing a lot (but not even close to all) of those episodes. Apparently, a dedicated fan of the show's earliest seasons recorded these episodes way back in the 1960's, before recording equipment was commonly available. These tapes, I'm pretty sure of it, is now in BBC's possession, and is most certainly a case of the original company obtaining footage from outside.
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