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Answerman - Is Japan Over-Reacting To Ai Takabe's Arrest?


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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:50 am Reply with quote
There is nothing of value in cocaine asides in very rare medical use. Ever met a crack user? I have and it's not pretty. There are reasons why this stuff is illegal.

You call it draconian, while I call it disciplined. While they have the "choice" to ruin their lives, everyone else has theirs to condemn their actions especially if it's against the law. Takabe Ai is an adult and she should've foreseen the consequences, but decided not to. This is all on her.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5914
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:30 pm Reply with quote
mdreura wrote:
I think it's awfully hypocritical for any American person including Justin and people commenting in this thread to be outraged at Japan and Japanese society for coming down hard on one of their own for perceived petty offenses.

Our drug laws specifically, yes, are very different and are trending away from heavy-handed enforcement after 40 years of the ineffective War on Drugs.


Sure doesn't look like it especially since our drug laws are in part tied directly to the corruption involving the criminal justice system which doesn't look like it's improving much either.

mdreura wrote:

I can't read about this situation and not be reminded of Scott Freeman. Say what you will about child pornography, he and Takabe are both accused of nonviolent victimless possession


Guess I should be the one to point out that child pornography isn't a victimless crime. The only exception I could see is if the accused is in possession of a photo of a girlfriend or boyfriend within the age of consent who agreed to letting their picture be taken of them in a state of undress. Though of course there are some states that don't agree with that in spite of how awkward it can cause things to get.

mdreura wrote:

Who's right? How can we pat ourselves on the back for running him out of town and criticize Japan for doing the same thing to her? It's hypocritical.


Not really since one of them was accused and plead guilty to being in possession of child pornography the other is accused of being in possession of a illegal narcotic two crimes that are in no way shape or form similar. With exacting outcomes that won't be similar either.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:43 pm Reply with quote
mdreura wrote:
I think it's awfully hypocritical for any American person including Justin ... to be outraged at Japan and Japanese society for coming down hard on one of their own for perceived petty offenses.

Justin never expressed any outrage.
He simply explained the situation and did not offer any personal opinion, either positive or negative, that I noticed.

He also did not imply that this was a petty offense. He actually used the term "major criminal trouble."
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:53 pm Reply with quote
Lili-Hime wrote:
configspace wrote:
Alcohol and tobacco are drugs too. So why isn't the entire adult population there in jail?

She had cocaine which is scientifically proven to be more addictive and harmful than either alcohol or tobacco; second only to heroin. It's not like she was caught with marijuana or something. All the more reason she needs treatment




I take it then you don't believe in self-ownership.

Lili-Hime wrote:
I meant more with American celebrities that basically have zero self control. If they don't want to be a role model, then don't be a celebrity; it's that simple. No one holds a gun to their head and forces them to become athletic stars or pop stars. It comes as a price what with the mammoth tons of money they make. I don't think they should be role models either; but the fact is that people do look to them as that regardless of if they should or shouldn't... and to me it's harder to blame the a preteen for idolizing someone they shouldn't than an adult with no self control burning out their life.


That's pretty rich coming from someone who wants to literally hold a gun to other people heads, even just by government proxy, for taking some particular substance.

And what logic allows you to hold a gun to someone's head once they become popular enough? Would someone loose their rights once he or she gets a million subscribers on Youtube?


Paiprince wrote:
There is nothing of value in cocaine asides in very rare medical use. Ever met a crack user? I have and it's not pretty. There are reasons why this stuff is illegal.

You call it draconian, while I call it disciplined. While they have the "choice" to ruin their lives, everyone else has theirs to condemn their actions especially if it's against the law. Takabe Ai is an adult and she should've foreseen the consequences, but decided not to. This is all on her.

Have you ever thought how did that law get formed in the first place and why manmade laws (i.e. positive law) are different everywhere and change? You can condemn anyone for anything in your own way and only voluntarily with other people. That would not give you the right to point a gun at them and say "obey". If anything, they would have the right to self defense in exactly these cases.
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Lili-Hime



Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:18 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:

That's pretty rich coming from someone who wants to literally hold a gun to other people heads, even just by government proxy, for taking some particular substance.


Whoah now..... at what point in this entire thread did I ever say someone should have a gun held to their head for doing drugs???? O_o You're putting words in my mouth.

@mdreura:

Child porn is not a victim-less crime.

Wow this thread is going places....
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sailornyanko



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 134
Location: Mexico City
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:06 am Reply with quote
From Answerman's response it seems like idols and seiyuus if young enough at least have a chance for a career revival even if they get caught doing hard drugs such as crystal meth.

I personally found it to be beyond ridiculous when the Japanese Figure Ice Skating association severely punished a male figure ice skater named Nobunari Oda. He was an upcoming skater that despite lacking a quad jump had a lot of promise and only needed more polishing. I believe he could land Triple Axels which is considered in the sport to be equally as hard as a quad despite being a 3 1/2 rotation jump.

The crime?

A DUI... riding a bike in a sleepy residential neighborhood.

Yes, he was caught by the local cops riding a bike after having a couple of beers. Apparently when the incident happened he was still 19 (not yet legal age to buy beer in Japan) which put salt on the wounds because he didn't crash any grannys or hurt any street dogs during his mad craze.

I can understand the Japanese Figure Ice Skating association wanting to punish him by forbidding him to compete but the problem was that I believe the season where he comitted his terrible crime was a season before the Olympics and they stupidly forced him out of competition in the World Championships. The association literally shot itself in the foot because the number of top 10 finishes determines how many athletes in a goven category and country are sent to the Olympics the following year. If Oda had been allowed to at least go to the worlds to get his expected top 10 finish Japan would easily sent 2 male skaters and because of their insanely stringent customs they only got 1 berth for the singles male skater category.

In my opinion it would have been a much sweeter punishment to have allowed him to have gone to the worlds, claim the berth and then the following year forbid him to compete at the Olympics. At least he could have "paid his debt" to society guaranteeing a berth but with the shame he would never be an Olympian.

Did the international ice skating association punish him?

As a matter of fact curiously the ISU didn't issue any punishments claiming the decision depending on his own nation's association. Stark difference from the ridiculous 2 year ban they gave to Carolina Kostner whose ex boyfriend did steroids (she never did the juice but apparently they justified the 2 year ban hurting the chance of tv ratings and $$$ on event tickets to see her skate because she lied to the ISU about her bf. Since he is a skier and under the ISU they thought it was fair game). I have a hunch given she is almost 30 years old and has already won an Olympic bronze medal she will not be showing up for the 2018 Olympics.

Did Oda's skating career rebound?

After his 2 year ban was up he briefly returned but didn't recover his form and retired. I feel sad that they gave a young skater such a harsh punishment for such a lenient crime because the amount of years a figure ice skater is at the top of their game is only a handful of years. After you turn 25 landing triples becomes increasingly difficult. Most skaters beyond age 30 that sill compete are in Pairs skating or ice dancing where the focus is on lifts and not on landing 8 triples in a 4:30 minute program.
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sunflower



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1080
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:28 am Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
maoyen wrote:
They have meth in Japan Confused


Meth can be made anywhere and pure pseudoephedrine used in meth usually comes from Asia.


More than that, meth and its crystal form were both invented in Japan. The Japanese military used it in bulk with soldiers in WW2. After the war it was legalized and caused a massive addiction epidemic, then it was made illegal and the yakuza stepped in. It is supposedly the drug involved in 80% of drug-related arrests today, and the most-used illegal drug in Japan.
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Galap
Moderator


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2354
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:01 am Reply with quote
Regardless of what one thinks, I think you have to agree that having the shows pulled is tremendously unfair to everyone else who worked on them-- all the animators, storyboarders, composers, etc. In the grand scheme of things one voice actor is an extremely minor part of the whole production, and it's pretty bad to screw with the livelihoods of all those other people who have literally nothing to do with this.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:43 am Reply with quote
This kind of reminds me of something I just saw on Drugs, Inc.: They filmed a cocaine dealer getting into a Hollywood premiere because one of the bigwigs there wanted to buy $4,500 of crack. How did he get in? Said bigwig modified the guest list to include a bogus name, which the dealer was told of beforehand and used to effortlessly get into such an exclusive event.

So not only are the top dogs in Hollywood doing hard drugs (remember, this is crack cocaine we're talking about here) and are open about it, they can bend the rules in order to get the stuff. It's like the total opposite of this case. Doing hard drugs in Hollywood gets you street cred.

XChampion wrote:
I think if you are in the public eye then you should be held to a higher standard. I actually like that companies do this in japan. They care more about someones character then making money. I think american companies can learn a lot about these incidents. She committed a crime and now she must deal with the affects of it. I think these companies handle it the right way and I applaud them. Imagine what american artists would learn if american companies did this to them. Oh wait they wont because its all about the money. In America you can have mulitple DUIs and still make millions of dollars as a singer or actor in America but the Japanese want nothing to do with that and I like it.


I don't think the American public will react to these the same way the Japanese public will. If an American company that an actor or a musician works for pulls all of the works of that person because they were found to have done drugs, there is going to be hell on the streets and hell to pay. The news will be all up in arms over it. There will be protests and petitions. The people in charge of the decision could find themselves in physical danger.

Mr. Oshawott wrote:
In the U.S., there are plenty of celebrities that do plenty of questionable stuff and the public generally seems indifferent and/or relishing of it.


In the United States, honesty is very highly valued. (If you think about cultural differences between the United States and other countries, the reason behind them is predominantly related to honesty.) A celebrity who does drugs or something is often relished not only because their lives sound more interesting, but because they are honest and upfront about what they do.

The producer I used to assist told me that he places no trust in people with perfect-looking lives because it means they're dishonest about themselves.

Paiprince wrote:
It makes someone wonder how she'd turn to something hard as cocaine for whatever reason.


People get fame (even if just a little), they get a big head, they think they can do anything they want and people will adore them for it. Simple as that.

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
I don't really get why people are so eager idolize those who are rich or famous, simply because they're rich and/or famous. I understand it intellectually, but not emotionally. But regardless, I don't think it's healthy or a wise thing to do.


My guess is that they see these celebrities as successful versions of themselves, or perhaps an ideal boyfriend/girlfriend (in the case of people like Justin Bieber). Or they just see them as success stories, which alone can turn someone into a role model because they've accomplished something someone else has desired.

When you see a kid or a teenager desire to be like some person, it makes perfect sense when that some person makes a six-figure sum and is admired by thousands, if not millions of people.

sailornyanko wrote:

After his 2 year ban was up he briefly returned but didn't recover his form and retired. I feel sad that they gave a young skater such a harsh punishment for such a lenient crime because the amount of years a figure ice skater is at the top of their game is only a handful of years. After you turn 25 landing triples becomes increasingly difficult. Most skaters beyond age 30 that sill compete are in Pairs skating or ice dancing where the focus is on lifts and not on landing 8 triples in a 4:30 minute program.


That sounds terrible, but I am really not surprised, as athletes face the most trouble when they get caught doing something illegal, from what I've noriced. No doubt the depression got to him and he probably stopped practicing for a spell. Even if they still have all their skill, they could still get nervous and completely choke.

Could he have signed up as a different country's representative? It probably would've taken more time to do so than he had though. (I'm thinking of Pau Gasol being in Spain's basketball team despite being in the NBA at that time.)
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13550
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:54 pm Reply with quote
At least it's better that she did get arrested, compared to some celebrities that will only get probation/pay a fine. Now, there is a difference between getting arrested and actually convicted.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14757
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:41 am Reply with quote

  • But this behavior also conforms to a Japanese cultural principle: 「臭いものにふたをしろ」 ”Put a lid on things that smell.” In other words, companies want bury anything controversial as soon as possible. By removing the CDs, record labels feel like they are quietly erasing any legacy of the criminal artist’s existence.


The faster they remove the smell, the faster they can move on from the scandal.

Heheh, nobody likes goody two-shoes anyways *cough*taylorswift*cough* Twisted Evil

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