Forum - View topicThe Neverending Debate over the End of Naruto
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totherpage95
Posts: 26 |
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i know that people still debate this online. i actually had that experience when i bothered to watch the yu-gi-oh anime and was surprised when the show had romantic/character development |
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Hypeathon
Posts: 1176 |
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If you're talking about that flashback during the Kage Summit arc, then I'm afraid you misinterpreted what Naruto told Sai. The way you phrased what Naruto said makes it seem like he would fight for her love by achieving his promise. Rather (and I checked the anime episode and manga chapter where this flashback was brought up just a moment ago), Naruto meant that there's no point in expressing his feelings if he can't do the one thing that will make Sakura happy. And what would make Sakura happy is seeing Sasuke, the one she loves that Naruto was self-aware of as I and JaggedAuthor stated before, return to the village safe and sound. If you ever seen that gag in anime where one guy has a blantant crush on a girl but that same girl seemingly has a crush on another guy and the guy ends up being sad but then immediately decides to get his crush together with the guy she really likes to make her happy, this is a more dramatized version of the same thing. Apparently in TV Tropes, this is called the, "I want my beloved to be happy", trope. |
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Transformers03
Posts: 41 |
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This article is certainly well written, and Amy McNulty doesn't show any ill intentions toward NS shippers or the like. However, no matter how much I try, I can never fully side with NH reasoning. Maybe because I was an NS shipper, and how the pairing itself was handled in the last chapter and in The Last, but no matter how long I think about it, the less and less NH makes sense to me. There's just too many contradictions to make it work for me, to many convolutions to ultimately make the pairing work in the end.
I'm not trying to be mean-spirited here (though honestly I have plenty of negative emotions with this subject matter, which I'm trying to suppress), but the article's main defense about how Naruhina works doesn't make sense to me. The author of the article is not being mean, or doesn't come across as unknowledgeable about the subject matter, it just doesn't really add up to me. Yes, in real life you wont end up liking the same person as you did as a kid. It is a part of growing up, it is when we mature and discover what we truly like. Yet I call shenanigans on that because the world of Naruto was never an accurate depiction of the real world. In world where Ninjas have incredible powers to destroy mountains, it couldn't be farther to our own reality. But it doesn't mean we can't find similarities to our own world with it, so the theme of maturing and liking someone else can still be prevalent... except that theme is consist with the other character. As the author pointed out, Sakura still ends up with her childhood crush, she didn't grow out of it and there is even LESS justification for that pairing to get together. Further, Minato and Kushina knew each other since childhood and were teenage sweethearts. FURTHER further more, Jairaya has had a crush on Tsunade since they were young, and he never let go of it. It was never shown in a negative light, so readers were never under the assumption he needed to let go unless thought about it critically, as it can be looked as a problem since he never moved from it. EXCEPT it was implied right before he died that Tsunade was finally going to reciprocate those feelings. FURTHER further further more, the whole thing with the parallels with Obito and Naruto is now frustrating inaccurate, even though the Kishimoto made great strides to point out the connection between the two. Obito did everything because Rin died, because he loved her, which could have been seen as a negative way to show what happens if you keep hold of your childhood crush... EXCEPT he still gets with her in the afterlife!!! Then there is the whole thing with The Last, which almost feels like Kishi's way of trying to make NH work outside the manga. I haven't seen it so wont make any judgements on the actually quality of the work, but it is just frustrating to me he needed to have movie made after the fact to justify Naruto and Hinata getting together. If it was really important in the first place, then there should have been more panel time with it in the actual manga. Road to Ninja, which also had Kishi's involvement, makes things even more confusing as that was a very Naruto and Sakura focus movie. While not romantic per se, there was still some interesting parallels between NS and Naruto's parents. It also came off as pretty anti-Sasusaku. Yes I know Road to Ninja is "not Canon", it's just weird that Kishi would be involved with something like Road to Ninja and than go on to make The Last. The last paragraph was me going off on a tangent, though to also point out how the Naruto "romance" doesn't really work, unless not to me. Another major point that Amy points out as the reason why she is glad that NH became canon is the fact that she liked Hinata and is glad she got what she wanted. I see this all the time, and I can't essentially disagree with it. If you like Hinata, then of course you would be more likely to like the outcome of Naruto. Not only that, NH end pairing does give other shy girls/women hope and courage that they too can be get someone to like them through courage. There's definitely a moral that can be view with NH, however I can't believe it in myself because I want another pairing to win out and the fact that it does contradicts many elements from the manga. Though, to be fair, the manga has many, MANY other contradictions. So in the end, I do disagree with this article, strongly in fact, but that doesn't mean it is wrong. It is just her perspective on a manga she obviously loves, a series that also loved, yet I feel I can never see a single image of it again for how it was handle (and I didn't talk about my issues with Sasusaku and the other issues with the final chapter). I just wish Amy showcase more on the NS side of things, but then again you can't please everyone. (By the way, Naruto and Hinata have known each other since childhood too, so they still ended up with people they knew since they were young. Also, HINATA NEVER GREW OUT HER CHILDHOOD CRUSH EITHER, JUST LIKE SAKURA. Sure it isn't as bad as Sakura, but still...) Last edited by Transformers03 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Transformers03
Posts: 41 |
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That doesn't even make sense to compare the two. Aerith died before her and Cloud's romantic relationship could be taken form. Sure there's more complications with that, like heavy suggestions that Aerith only liked Cloud because he reminded her of Zack (a retcon I don't really like), but they still had a special relationship that can be obviously seen as romantic. Also, yet again, SHE DIED. The what-ifs are enough to righfully justify shippers head canon. |
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stilldemented
 Posts: 232 |
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Well Kishimoto is consistent at least. Neither female character ever got over their first crush.
I dropped Naruto long before the finale took place, so by the time the pairings were revealed, I had no real stake one way or another. I thought the pairings were fitting for the series as an overall narrative, but unfitting for a fan keeping up on a regular weekly basis. Personally, Hinata never worked for me. I'll admit to being biased when it comes to shy characters in anime, because they rarely rise above the initial stocktype. I never felt the need to root for her or feel sorry for her, yet that is the purpose she serves as a character. So for me, she was a weak link among a strong ensemble cast. Her biggest shtick of trying to be noticed, and yet there was no real reason to acknowledge her until the end game. By then, I had already cemented my opinion on the character. Hinata seems like a much more interesting character in the epilogue than she could be credited for being throughout the series. My biggest quarrel with Sakura is that I can never see her love for Sasuke as anything other than that initial infatuation. It's a weird situation where the love feels unearned because I'm just not getting enough out of Sasuke to justify Sakura's love for him. The only reason that the pairing doesn't rub me sour is the overarching theme of forgiveness that is present throughout the series. I knew Sasuke would survive the series, be forgiven, and restore his clan. 
Ino got all the character development that I expected from Sakura. She lost her sensei and father, moved past her love for Sasuke, and went on to be a pretty capable ninja in her own rite. Debatable, I know. But alas, I can't help but feel that the Sakura vs. Ino rivalry was ultimately Ino's victory. Ino received better development through the series as a supporting character than Sakura as a main character. Just my thoughts on the matter. Long story short. I had rooted issues with both main pairings, because I didn't care much for either Sakura or Hinata. For all of their 'development' they never overcame the initial impression I formed for them. Not for a lack of trying, mind you. It just never work for me. Like what was said in the write-up. This story was more about Naruto and Sasuke and the cycle of perpetuated hatred. But pairings become a major part of any fandom. Personal opinion? In the battle between Sakura and Hinata for Naruto's love...I'll pick Ino every time. Crack ftw. As for Sasuke, he's too good at brooding to be pairing fodder. 
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Ambimunch
 Posts: 2012 |
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Kishi can't write romance, he admitted to it many times. Sakura is a product of his inability to create a realistic relationship, and is probably the worst female character I've seen in a long while. And I believe given enough time, if the series wouldn't end, Karin would also be ruined.
Both have feelings for a psychopathic murderer who uses them, ignores them, "abuses" them, inflicts pain on them, and intentionally attempts to kill them. Is the moral of the story for girls to keep loving douchebags who treat you like shit? Thank god for NaruHina, wouldn't want a decently written character like Naruto to end up with that mess known as Sakura. |
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infamoustakai
 Posts: 323 |
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I think the reason the fans who were pulling for Sakura were upset was because they were lead on by Kishimoto. Throughout the manga everything pointed toward Sakura. Multiple different characters pointed out the interest the two had in one another and even Naruto's mother told him "Marry someone like me". Sakura is very similar to Kushina in many many ways, so of course she was the first to come to mind.
Naruto being paired with Hinata was the very definition of contrived. It was unnatural and out of nowhere. The fact is the characters had very little development together and they've hardly ever even talked. Now, I like girls like Hinata in stories. Cute, shy girls who have a guy they would do anything for. However, Kishimoto did absolutely nothing with her. He a perfect opportunity to create a bond between the two after the Pain battle. Why not have them talk more? If Naruto realized her feelings, why not get to know her or see her from time to time? This is where Kishimoto's mediocre writing really comes into play. Hell, I would've been completely fine with Hinata if she had development with Naruto. This is writing 101 people. The fact is the Naruto and Hinata pairing is contrived, unnatural, awkward, and clearly rushed because he wanted to end the series at chapter 700. Any one who knows how character development/writing works can tell you this. Again, I would've been fine with it if they had developed a relationship in the first place. As a fan of the franchise for 10 years, I really feel that my frustration and anger are justified. Naruto was influential to me as a child growing up, so naturally I would want Naruto to be with the girl he loved. So seeing that not happen really hurt. And seeing Sakura, who is still in love with a murderous, psychotic, abusive, unloving Sasuke also hurts. That relationship is joke in and of itself, and I honestly believe is pretty disrespectful to the characters themselves. The bottom line is, Naruto and Sakura should've been together. Plain and simple. She had development and Hinata did not. All signs pointed to them being together and yet we come up empty handed. Development was thrown out the window to satisfy a large group of fans rather than having it naturally end. Because of that, I can't be a fan of Naruto any more. |
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Transformers03
Posts: 41 |
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Even though I wouldn't say the writing is particularly bad, as Naruto still has many loyal fans... But I have the exact same feelings. |
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WingKing
Posts: 617 |
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That's just an author retcon, though. He said he decided on the pairings about halfway through the story, so none of the relationship dynamics that were set up in the beginning - the triangles and crushes and all of that - were meant to foreshadow any specific pairing right from the start. If he'd decided to go a different direction, the first part is vague enough that he could have just as easily done the exact same retcon on SasuSaku almost word-for-word and had someone declaring that Sakura was never in love with Sasuke, it was just a way for her to compete with Ino and the rest of his fangirls. |
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Hyperdrve
 Posts: 276 |
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What about Naruto attending his Hokage ceremony; what about Naruto eating ramen with Iruka after his Hokage promotion.
Almost 10 years ago, I first showed Naruto to my friends and then later got requests for DVDs even from people that I would never have imagined to be into anime. They resonated with Naruto and the reason why is because they wanted to see the delinquent become Hokage. I really wonder what those people thought about ending and if I were to go back in time I'd prevent myself from spreading Naruto since the ending was so anticlimactic and poorly executed that it felt like a waste of time. (Not that I didn't consider Naruto to be a waste of time years before it ended). The biggest kick in the groin was the last one shot with the bait and switch. Last edited by Hyperdrve on Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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totherpage95
Posts: 26 |
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[/quote]
I'm not trying to be mean-spirited here (though honestly I have plenty of negative emotions with this subject matter, which I'm trying to suppress), but the article's main defense about how Naruhina works doesn't make sense to me. The author of the article is not being mean, or doesn't come across as not knowledgeable about the subject matter, it just doesn't really add up to me. Yes, in real life you wont end up liking the same person as you did as a kid. It is a part of growing up, it is when we mature and discover what we truly like. Yet I call shenanigans on that because the world of Naruto was never an accurate depiction of the real world. In world where Ninjas have incredible powers to destroy mountains, it couldn't be farther to our own reality. But it doesn't mean we can't find similarities to our own world with it, so the theme of maturing and liking someone else can still be prevalent... except that theme is consist with the other character. As the author pointed out, Sakura still ends up with her childhood crush, she didn't grow out of it and there is even LESS justification for that pairing to get together. Further, Minato and Kushina knew each other since childhood and were teenage sweethearts. FURTHER further more, Jiraiya has had a crush on Tsunade since they were young, and he never let go of it. It was never shown in a negative light, so readers were never under the assumption he needed to let go unless thought about it critically, as it can be looked as a problem since he never moved from it. EXCEPT it was implied right before he died that Tsunade was finally going to reciprocate those feelings. FURTHER further further more, the whole thing with the parallels with Obito and Naruto is now frustrating inaccurate, even though the Kishimoto made great strides to point out the connection between the two. Obito did everything because Rin died, because he loved her, which could have been seen as a negative way to show what happens if you keep hold of your childhood crush... EXCEPT he still gets with her in the afterlife!!! [quote] i said this too. naruto is fiction it isn't necessary to be realistic in that naruto can't fall in love till he is older |
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JulieYBM
Posts: 209 |
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The confession during the battle with Pain going nowhere is entirely a consequence of Kishimoto being an awkward guy. He draws comics for a living, he isn't exactly a traditional male. He outright states he never had any intention of covering the full aspect of the relationship between Naruto and Hinata in the comic because it would've been too awkward for him. It's hardly perfect but it is what it is. This didn't stop him from giving the two more scenes together during the war, though. The look on Naruto's face when Neji tells him "your life if not your own" can easily work as another way of saying Naruto understood how Hinata felt towards him, too. That isn't to say I don't love seeing more about how Naruto and Hinata became an official couple but the actual A-to-B-to-C-to-D points didn't really have a place in the greater scheme of the comic. It's the same with Shikamaru and Temari, we see it, we know it is there and that is all that needs to be said.
Sasuke is hardly consistent in his attitude. He and Sakura are close throughout Part I and then at every other turn in Part II Sasuke will say one thing but take the first opportunity he can to do the opposite. Before leaving Konoha he thanks Sakura for loving him, warns her and Naruto to stop chasing after him at the beginning of Part II, tries to get Sakura to do something he knows she won't do (kill Karin), and either apologizes to her for the trouble he's caused her or knocks her out through genjutsu. It's no surprise Sakura thinks Sasuke can give up his cruel ambitions, he keeps refusing to put his money where his mouth is and kill any of them. |
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TsukasaElkKite
 Posts: 3950 |
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I HATED the ending. Sakura going back to Sasuke even though he's tried to kill her multiple times, rebuffs her advances, and has hardly any true relationship development with her is a classic sign of an abusive relationship. Same goes for Naruto ending up with Hinata. It seems like a very one sided relationship on Hinata's part. They also had almost no relationship development.
I agree. With the way Naruto acted throughout the series with his focus on Sasuke, I'd say he was in love with him. |
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JulieYBM
Posts: 209 |
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The massively powerful Sasuke failing to kill a character who both much less powerful and not putting up a fight? If Sasuke wanted her dead she'd have been dead a long time ago.
Naruto defends Hinata's will against Neji, is the only character to think of her as strong and is there to constantly remind her how cool he thinks she is on a consistent basis. How is this one-sided when we're talking about a status quo years later? It's better than marrying Naruto off to some other character that the audience has no idea what he likes about said person. |
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TsukasaElkKite
Posts: 3950 |
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Mine too. 
And that quote from Kushina to Naruto "Fall in love with someone like your mom." Hinata is absolutely NOTHING like Kushina. |
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