Forum - View topicWhatever Happened to Bleach?
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4575 |
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I've often seen people make claims like this, but is there any hard evidence that it actually occurred? With the numbers Bleach was pulling in its heyday, you'd think that Kubo would essentially have carte blanche to take the story in whatever direction he chose. (Or maybe that's precisely what happened...) |
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Terry Yanto
Posts: 2 |
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Meh, it's like most battle shounen series honestly. IMO, these types of series are fun for a bit but they get stale due to the fact that they drag on for so long (Naruto and One Piece are no exceptions, for me anyways).
The inclusion of the last arc is likely the driving factor behind the "decline" of the series. There was not enough build up/cliffhanger questions to it unlike with Aizen (which I do agree, he was the driving factor behind the series overall arc). The "getting Ichigo's powers back" arc was not something people really wanted to deal with and I guess that was long enough for people to start losing interest. Although the series still seems to be doing decently, not as well as it did before of course; but this is something that the article fails to elaborate on. I agree with a lot of the points but I guess my problem is how much badmouthing this article is doing. |
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louis6578
 Posts: 1861 |
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Always nice to have a scapegoat, even if there's no evidence to back up that claim. So, got a link? I'd be happy to read the article or interview where this was confirmed. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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It would make sense if the WSJ editors are like that though. Weekly Shonen Jump is THE manga magazine, and so the editors would probably be the ones most concerned with the bottom line. |
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Videogamep
 Posts: 564 Location: CA |
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That was back when Bleach was first starting out before Kubo had that kind of clout. |
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Darkmanly21
Posts: 1 |
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I fully agree with the article, this is a real critical to the current situation of Bleach .... we must accept that history is going around in circles, remember all the chapters that were taken up? not want to see is blinded
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
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It has? I don't remember either of those things, though perhaps I've just forgotten. If those are both true, it would explain some stuff. (Tatsuki is criminally underused in this series) But, regardless of whether it is Kubo's fault or not, Bleach has problems. If editors are the reason for the problems, that excuses Kubo a bit, but it doesn't make the problems magically go away. That said, I still like the series, even now, though I miss the days when it was really good. I don't think it's been entirely downhill since the Soul Society arc, though. I'm one of the few people who actually really liked the Fullbring arc (until the absolutely terrible ending that is), and here's why. People called the Hueco Mundo arc Soul Society 2.0, and for good reason. It felt like Kubo was trying, and failing, to recapture what made the Soul Society arc good. The Fullbring arc felt to me like it was essentially him trying to recapture what made pre-Soul Society Bleach good. But unlike with Hueco Mundo, I felt he succeeded, at least at first. I remember one thing that I loved early on was seeing Orihime being cheerful and goofy again. That was such a big part of her character early on, and it disappeared entirely in Hueco Mundo. Which was understandable, considering the situation, but Kubo didn't really do anything with her character during that time. There was a perfect chance for character growth, for some sort of character arc, but it was ignored. And then he completely sidelined her and her entire importance in the arc with Aizen's stupid "haha, Orihime never mattered after all, the last 200 chapters or whatever were based on a meaningless lie!" But anyways, back to Orihime in the Fullbring arc, she's being cheerful and goofy again, but also, she's being assertive and strong, and showing new techniques that Ginjou remarks are surprisingly violent coming from her. It felt, for a bit, like Kubo was showing that the Hueco Mundo experience actually had changed her, made her stronger and not broken her. I know I'm grasping at straws a bit, but as minor as this was, at least it was something compared to before. And it was nice. It was also nice to see Chad again, and have the promise of him being heavily involved in the arc, even if that wasn't fully realized like it should have been. The entire arc felt a lot more personal and low key after the big Aizen climax, but it felt good to have that, to have something different after the interminably long Hueco Mundo arc. Another thing the arc had going for it was a sense of mystery. It had been so, so long since Bleach had any sense of mystery or wonder to it. But with the Fullbringers, we finally had that again. Just who the hell was Ginjou, and what did he know about Ichigo's father? What was the connection to Tsukishima and Ginjou? Why did Tsikishima betray them? What did Uruhara know about all this? Why did Ichigo overhear Rukia talking, and what was she referring to? What did Tsikishima's power actually do, how did he seem to have an ability that Ginjou didn't know about and thought was impossible? There was some actual mystery, and with it a sense of danger. Another thing about the arc I loved was the villain. No, I don't mean Ginjou. I mean the real villain, Tsukishima. He was absolutely brilliant, and also terrifying in a way Aizen never was. I think the scene that best showcases this is when Ichigo goes home and finds Tsukishima waiting for him, with his sister's all excited to see their "cousin" again and wondering why the hell Ichigo was reacting the way he was. Tsukishima was no Aizen. He was no Yhwach. He was no omnipotent immortal god of whatever destined to conquer the world. He was simply a human with weird powers, no where near their level. But his powers were personal. He could hit Ichigo where it hurt him the most. He could screw with Ichigo and mess up his life in a way no other villain could, could mess with his head and take away everything Ichigo cared about. And be loved by those closest to Ichigo while doing so. And that was great! Rather than falling into the absurd power inflation that affects pretty much all successive shounen villains, Kubo had sidestepped that entirely by creating a villain uniquely suited for Ichigo, and throwing him at Ichigo when he was at his weakest. It made Tsukishima the most terrifying villain in Bleach. I love the scene where Ichigo meets with Ginjou shortly after finding out what happened to his family, and they discuss what to do. And Ichigo broaches the subject of killing Tsukishima, in a very chilling way. And then Ginjou says that might not even work, that the power may still be in affect, and so if that happens Ichigo will forever be known by his loved ones as a cold blooded murderer. It was the most tense, chilling scene in the manga. No villain before or since ever achieved that. And so that is another one of the reasons why I loved the arc. Then we get to the end. Ginjou is evil after all. Whoa, this is crazy, what will- oh, suddenly, Shinigami! And all the Fullbringers are effortlessly defeated in stupid ways. And Ichigo, who spent the entire arc struggling to get some sort of powers back, just gets stabbed by a sword and gets them back in full. And then we start a flashback that will hopefully finally reveal just what Tsukishima and Ginjou's deal is- oh, wait, nope, that flashback ends as soon as it starts in such a jarring way it feels like you skipped 2 or 3 chapters. It felt like Kubo's editors were telling him "the sales are dropping, people want to see the Shinigami again, end this arc now" and Kubo was forced to abruptly switch gears. Is that what happened? I don't know. But it's what it felt like, and it made the end of the arc jarring and terrible. It also rendered pretty much the entire arc meaningless. The only thing that came out of it was that Ichigo had Fullbring powers merged with his Shinigami powers now, but the following arc made that meaningless. Also, a few of the Fullbringers show up in kind of token roles in the Quincy arc, but nothing big has come of it yet. Given how the Fullbring arc ended, I can't really fault others for hating it. But, for me, until that ending, it was the best Bleach had been since the Soul Society arc: even better than the Soul Society arc at times. |
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pikabot
Posts: 168 |
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I would stake large amounts of money on that being exactly what happened. I feel exactly the same way about the Fullbringer arc as you do, but the readers clearly didn't; the ratings completely tanked during it. And then lo and behold, not only does it all get abruptly undone in a single chapter, a bunch of shinigami show up - and not just any shinigami, but a who's-who of the most popular ones, more or less plucked from the top of the popularity polls. It reeked of pandering to the polls. |
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louis6578
Posts: 1861 |
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Me and my friend were talking about anime that we think should get a remake. Not necessarily readapted, but completely remade with a better story, better animation, more or less episodes so pacing isn't awkward, etc.
Bleach was definitely on that list somewhere. Along with Guilty Crown, Darker than Black Season Two, and a few 70's anime. I stand by that. Take Tite Kubo's original work and make it into something better. Someone needs to give this the FMA 2003 treatment. |
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MajorZero
Posts: 359 |
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Different situations, Arakawa hasn't wrote enough material at the time of FMA 2003. Filler arcs are one of the reasons why ratings for Bleach tanked, I'd prefer proper closure for the series, give it 50 episodes, bring back the old team and give fans what they want. |
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louis6578
Posts: 1861 |
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I dunno. Maybe change up some of the arcs. Let the supposed true protagonists do something of use for a change. Give Uryu and Chad fights that they can win in the Soul Society arc. Make Orihime go through some actual development and change in Hueco Mundo. And stop pretending that the lieutenants and their fights with the fraccions matter. Give Gin's betrayal some actual buildup. Etc. Maybe then it could work. Make the show 1/8 as long as it was too.
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KewlAlex
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This can't even be called a review. its just a rant from someone who can not only understand Kubo's work but wants it to be something weird that it never hinted at. Kubo doesn't make things as he goes, he plans things out & fleshes out his characters even with editors and wsj breathing down his neck for fights. ex. spoiler[current battle between Nanao/Barro not only gives important background but has been set up well especially with whole Ise shinto Japanese history]
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Ehhh, Kubo has admitted numerous times that he writes on the fly. Even Aizen's treason was decided after Aizen "died". I don't doubt he's planned some things from the beginning, but the amount of retconning when it comes to Orihime and Chad's powers are proof of that. It's not necessarily a bad thing, he's managed to pull off some great ideas that look like they were planned in advance |
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louis6578
Posts: 1861 |
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You know, now that that guy brought up all the good parts of the Fullbringer arc, I'm a little tempted to rewatch it. Only problem is that it's awkward rewatching an interim arc knowing that it's the last arc of the anime. Aizen's defeat is still where the manga should have ended, regardless of how good or bad Fullbringer arc was.
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Not only that, but Tsugumi Ohba admitted, in How to Read, that he made up much of Death Note as he went. If any WSJ series sounded pre-planned, it would've been that one. Takeshi Obata, the illustrator, was astonished at that revelation; he thought Ohba had planned more of it out. |
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