Forum - View topicThe Secret of One-Punch Man's Success
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maoyen
 Posts: 170 |
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This is more common than you think. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I will agree that art does not necessarily have anything to do with telling a story, if that's what you're trying to say. (I'm not sure if I fully understand your point here.) So, yeah, you can look at a painting, or a sculpture, or even an anime, and appreciate it for its visual impact or for the emotion that the visual medium provides to us. If this is indeed what you're saying, then I agree. However, I *do not* watch anime for that reason. It isn't that such things have no bearing for me, because they certainly do. It's because *my* reason for watching most anime is for the story. For me, anime is a vehicle used to tell a story, which means that the visuals are of secondary importance. For me, a well-told story is what provides the real emotional impact. It's what makes me care about whatever is happening visually. Animating a beautiful sunset is certainly something I don't mind watching, but knowing that the person watching the sun set knows that his life will end as the light fades is far more impactful and gives the same scene meaning that it wouldn't otherwise have. Even if it is poorly animated, that meaning still exists. At any rate, it isn't too hard for me to separate the visual/audio aspects of a show (TV, movie, anime, etc) from the actual story. Heck, it's even possible (though more difficult) to separate what the story-teller is *trying* to tell even if he lacks the writing ability to pull it off -- sometimes possible, anyway. How many reviews have you seen where the reviewer mentions that there are the bones of a good story beneath all the drek? As for trying to tell how much each individual aspect contributes to a work... I expect that varies depending on the person viewing the work. Some people, like me, will likely put a lot of weight on the story, while others will place more weight on other aspects. As long as the various parts that compose an anime are considered, I don't think it's particularly important to assign some priority as to which matters more than which. But if you look at reviews on ANN, they do grade various categories as well as provide an overall score, and they do so without suggesting how much of any particular category played a role in the overall grade.
Actually, I think you may be confusing the idea of episodic content verses one that has a continuity to it. Story-telling is going on in both instances, but with episodic content, the characters/world mostly resets after each episode. So in regards to episodic content, there is still a story being told, it's merely a short story. And these days, even supposedly episodic content may have a deeper story being told in snippets as a season (or entire series) progresses. The Princess Bride definitely is telling a story. You can argue how important the story is when comparing to the overall enjoyment to be gotten from the movie, but if it didn't have a story, I'm not sure what kind of movie it would end up being -- probably not one I'd want to watch. Again, I'm not sure if I'm really understanding what points are being made by either of the two people I'm responding to here. I *think* I understand their points, but I can't help feeling as if I'm missing some aspect of their argument. |
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Thatguy3331
 Posts: 1790 |
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I wondered what kind of pessimistic posts I'd read about something that honestly only gets me elated but jeez.
A while ago I saw a video by a youtuber named Digibro who made a video talking about the over use of the word budget and how skill/talent of the animator is almost never talked about. It's not a scripted video nor is it the most info heavy but it's an interesting springboard for discussion. With Regards to One Punch Man even when the trailers were out something about the show looked a bit "rough" or "unfinished" to me and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one as some of the backgrounds are the things I was looking at when I formed these thoughts. Still though I am sincerely glad that the anime is being an anime and is making re watching material I've read before fun. All the more I'm glad it's for a series I actually enjoy as a lot of anime smash hits that are animation bombs always seem to be things I either don't care for or find OK. Either it's too un popular/ un recognized/not talked about (Hyouka, Space Dandy to a degree with regards to it's humor) or I just flat out don't have the interest in the material (beyond the boundary, attack on titan sort of). When those two extremes meet I revel in it for as much as I can, because I don't know when it's going to happen again. Also glad to see Milos get some love for it's visuals I don't think it holds up quite well as a movie anymore but I still love the scratchy pencil like visuals. |
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H. Guderian
Posts: 1255 |
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I think an easy comparison for the above conversation:
It'd be like if someone reviewed a Game just for its story and not how it played. Like reviewing a car primarily for its amenities and modifiability and not for how it drives. I think the person who brought this up has a good point. He isn't trying to say Writing Never/Shouldn't matter, but that it is nice to see a critical appreciation get a spotlight. My Sakuga knowledge has grown much over recent years, so i find the recent attention towards Sakuga very welcome. |
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omoikane
Posts: 494 |
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Isn't it just that, people generally lack the tools (vocabulary, understanding, the ability to recognize, etc) to express the full spectrum of art in audiovisual mediums? The easiest is the reduction to writing, which, really, is just as complicated, and it's only half, at best, of all there is to talk about in a typical work in this context. It's not a great way to get an idea across, but sometimes it's all we have to work with. The story is not just dialog or plot or sequence of events, which is probably a better way to describe what some people here is complaining about (as opposed to writing), in terms of how a movie or TV show is a narrative payload and the story is some higher level idea that the TV show or movie is telling. Just like how words coming out of the mouth of an expert storyteller is doing the same thing, but there are definitely some people who are really good at telling stories than other people. In both cases it's up to a critic (or whoever) to be able to discern how do these narrative experiences work, beyond the obvious layer of words and ideas. In the case of animation I think sometimes there is also a subjective and visceral aspect to it that is additionally difficult to describe, partly because it is subjective and more importantly even if a few of us have the tools to describe the experience, the rest of us won't even understand it. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11340 |
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There wasn't a limited talent pool of good writers, there was a limited pool of writers of any caliber who had experience with the genre and audience of science fiction.
Where do you think all that came from? The writing in Goldman's novel and screenplay. Dialog needs to be written, as does action and setting. Actors need to know what to do and say. Writing is much more than just the Cliffs Notes of the overall story. That's why it gets so much attention and praise or blame. Writing is the fir tree that the rest of the production hangs their decorations on to make it a Christmas tree. 
If I understand your point about the contributions of the visual and aural aspects of a movie or series, I'll grant you that the other collaborators beyond director and writer do get short shrift. Articles like this one help to remedy that. But without a good story to tell, well written (and that includes dialog and a sequence of events that make sense and speak to character development and motivation), there's nothing the other contributors can do to save it. A prime example for me is Terror in Resonance. That was beautiful to look at, the soundtrack was outstanding, and every other aspect of production was amazing, but I barely made it through because the characters were so poorly written, the dialog sucked, and the plot made less and less sense the longer it went on. I can love a good story animated in Flash with stick figures and no audio, but all the money and animation/directorial/musical talent in the world won't make me love a beautifully rendered piece of crap story like TiR. Last edited by Gina Szanboti on Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mr VacBob
Posts: 16 |
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It may or may not be a commercial success, but that just means the production committee companies made their investment back, you know. It doesn't have to come from BD sales, and if the animation studio wasn't part of the committee (for an adaptation they often aren't) that actually hardly matters at all. They got paid when they drew everything in the first place. So they might make it back on figure sales, or streaming views, or something like that. |
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encrypted12345
Posts: 717 |
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I used to be skeptical about this adaptation, but I love how it's playing to the strengths as a video medium instead of a comic one, so instead of hyper-detailed dramatic manga stills, we get very dynamic fight scenes. It lets the anime be a somewhat different experience from the manga while still staying true to the spirit of it.
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omoikane
Posts: 494 |
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I actually disagree with that sentiment because I like plenty of anime that has, at best, a questionable premise and the overall story or theme might not be all that "good" by a critical sense of it. I would like these anime because of their execution, despite what they had to deal with, was enjoyable and outstanding in some way (sakuga, music, acting, art design, color design, marketing, and any/some of many other aspects of a production). Sure, it's not going to be a great production since it isn't firing on all cylinders so to speak, but there is no reason to think just because the story or theme or characters are not great, the whole shebang is no good for anybody. But by the same token I understand why some people would say what you say. I just don't think that ought to be a universal rule. I think for example, there are a fair share of mediocre manga that got much better anime adaptations than they deserve... |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4376 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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and considering how well liked the series have been, once an english dub is announced which is a guarantee considering viz media has the license, dont be surprised that the dub version will get an Adult Swim broadcast next cause from the looks of things ,they need it since barely any one is watching those old ep of shippuden. |
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Yuyucow
Posts: 18 |
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It's obvious to anyone who has read the article and not just the title, but this was about OPM's success as an animated piece rather than commercial success. Since I've seen a bunch of people talk about this though, I'd like to say - without overlapping with any new release, One-Punch Man has ranked 715k sold units over the last month (192k of which last week). For a latenight series on an unremarkable slot, that's actually pretty damn good. Add to that its potential to also do nicely overseas (a much smaller source of revenue, but still something that adds to it) and the so far average-looking disc sales don't seem like an issue at all.
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11340 |
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Maybe if I rephrased it and said with only a hackneyed story to tell, poorly written, there's nothing the other contributors can do to save it? If you hate the characters, are bored by what they're doing, cringe at the idiotic lines coming out of their mouths, and can't follow what storyline there is, it's hard to imagine that a great soundtrack and nice animation would make you enjoy it. Unless you just like looking at shiny and colorful moving objects. You might as well just watch a good amv. Without the writing, that's pretty much all you're left with. There's also a big difference between what we enjoy and what we would call "good." I wouldn't call Garzey's Wing good, but I enjoyed how insanely ridiculous it all was. That's what the term "guilty pleasure" was made for. But even if all those other not-writing things you mentioned are working at their peak (btw, writing is a component of the execution), they can't raise a series to the level of good or great without quality writing to hang it all on. On the other hand, a well-written story will still be good even with stick figure Flash animation. It's just better when given the full treatment.
Probably because the writing was better... An adaptation needs to be written too.
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xzy123
Posts: 143 |
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Probably because the writing was better... An adaptation needs to be written too.
[/quote]
what is the point of writing if the story is boring |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11340 |
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Because the anime isn't the manga. If they want to make an anime of a boring manga, then it's a good idea to adapt it in such a way as to not also be boring. Maybe what made the manga boring was too much rambling around or incoherence. If that can be tightened up, rearranged, or whatever it takes to fix, then doing that for the anime version makes sense. The book isn't always better than the movie/anime.
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Jayhosh
 Posts: 972 Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania |
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Anime News Network probably isn't the best place for you then.  That's how most of their forums are. It was the same way for shows like Space Dandy and Kill la Kill. Both shows that brought me a lot of joy while watching them. So it's kind of odd that these things that are meant to bring amusement to people are so often torn apart and dissected down to the littlest of details by a lot of anime fans. But you'll always have people like that, all that really matters is that you get enjoyment out of the anime you like.
I've gotten used to it (numb is more like it), but it does still somewhat amuse me that a medium that produces so much cringe-worthy stuff these days attracts so much heated pseudo-intellectual debates and arguments. It feels like people are just commenting to "cleverly" one-up each other endlessly with witty retorts. It's pretty rude at times, actually. But not as hypocritical as bronies at least (love and tolerance my ass). Alright, I'm really getting off-track here, haha. |
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