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GrayArchon
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 393
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:47 pm
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| leafy sea dragon wrote: | | Oh, it's one of THOSE sites? All right. Reading the article, I had the impression that its one of those scanlation groups, or perhaps a ring of them, with a person from the inside providing ahead-of-street-date scans, and that this was how they obtain them. I didn't know it was one of those sites that steals other peple's scanlations. (I also didn't know it was done automatically. I always figured people go out to look for them.) |
Well they're a scanlator group in that they do scanlate a few of the most popular series. But they started as just another popular online reader site, and that's still their main thing. Then they tried working with some speed scan groups for exclusivity before finally moving things 'in house'. If they can't put out their own scans for a while, they'll just go back to ripping scans from the other speed scan group, which is something they'll still do anyways if the other group releases first.
I'm sure the ripping process isn't entirely automated. New series would still have to be added manually, and there's possibly a process for groups that actually want to put their work on a reader to do so. It's kind of tricky to keep track of, it's not uncommon for several reader sites to be owned by the same people, and the sites they own are effectively differently branded mirrors of one another. Different owners do do things a bit differently. However I do know that the process involves some automation. I've seen some reader sites run afoul of scanlator attempts to make it difficult to automatically rip their scans. When you see a few chapters in a row filled with place holder images made to screw up bots, you know no human was involved.
| Quote: | | So if there are so many series that can be scanlated before the street date, does that mean there are a lot of people on the inside providing them with the scans? Because if that's the case, then this becomes a matter of corruption. |
It's kind of matter of corruption, but that's been the case for quite some time. You see, the official street date is when the magazines are supposed to be put out for sale by the various stores that sell them. For all the stores to have them on that date, printing and distribution has to start about a week beforehand. For the large magazines like Jump, that means there are hundreds of thousands of copies that are being shipped, or sitting in store stock rooms waiting for the street date.
That kind of situation makes it impossible to keep some copies from getting out before the street date. Some store will break the street date and put them out ahead of time. Some store will give a regular a special deal and sell to them ahead of time. Some store owner or employee will quietly snag themselves an early copy. Someone snags themselves an early copy at the printing company. Or as in this case, a copy or three goes missing during delivery and either no one notices, or no one cares enough to track it down, or perhaps the deliveryman has a quiet understanding with a store owner or two.
The up shot is that as the street date approaches, more and more copies will be floating around that break the street date. It's inevitable that some of those will make their way online in one fashion or another. The earlier a copy, the more likely it is to be from someone "on the inside" as you put it.
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sunflower
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1080
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:47 pm
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| Quote: | | So where can I buy these magical physical manga volumes that can be loaned out to thousands of people I don't actually know at a time, whilst I still keep the original copy without inconvenience? |
You don't have to buy them. You can get them for free at the library.
And yeah, I know the library pays for each hard copy. Once. And most scanlation teams pay for a hard copy too.
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Buzz201
Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 266
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:08 pm
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| sunflower wrote: |
| Quote: | | So where can I buy these magical physical manga volumes that can be loaned out to thousands of people I don't actually know at a time, whilst I still keep the original copy without inconvenience? |
You don't have to buy them. You can get them for free at the library.
And yeah, I know the library pays for each hard copy. Once. And most scanlation teams pay for a hard copy too. |
As I said (perhaps in a different post), most libraries will buy library binding through official channels often at higher rates, and in many countries (although perhaps not the US), there are schemes to give royalties for books loaned through libraries. Also, a library book can only be read by one party at a time, and most libraries do not profit from the lending of books as these manga reading sites do (or at least try to).
Aside from lack of legal availability, I've yet to see a credible argument in favour of scanlation.
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Drunk Samurai
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:34 pm
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| Buzz201 wrote: |
| Trysail wrote: |
| Buzz201 wrote: | |
This sounds me like people desperately trying to justify their own crummy behaviour. How long until somebody brings out the "I won't buy manga, because not all of the money goes back to the artist" excuse (or does that only work with Crunchyroll)? |
I'm sticking with "Crunchyroll's reader is bad" which actually works for every online reader I've ever tried except for three. |
Fair enough, but I was referring to a post I saw a while back in which people genuinely decried Crunchyroll because it committed the unspeakable crime of paying it's own expenses and employing staff with subscriber money, therefore you might as well pirate it instead  ...
| Trysail wrote: |
| Buzz201 wrote: | |
I believe library bindings are way more expensive than traditional copies to make up for that very reason. And many countries have Public Lending Rights schemes, where the author receives a royalty every time their book is borrowed. |
Varies by country, sure, but here the former is untrue and latter amounts to a pittance and has to be specifically applied for, not payed automatically for each loan. Side note, unless they're garbage at it, scan providers don't keep the original copy without inconvenience. |
What is inconvenient about storing a file on a hard drive or keeping the source you scanned in a bookshelf? Physical lending involves a degree of inconvenience, uploading to a manga site is only inconvenient if you don't do right. |
Pretty obvious why scanlators don't keep the original physical copy. They literally have to destroy it so they can scan it properly.
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Buzz201
Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 266
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:37 pm
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| Drunk Samurai wrote: | | Pretty obvious why scanlators don't keep the original physical copy. They literally have to destroy it so they can scan it properly. |
Apologies for my lack of knowledge about illegal activity, I'll try much harder next time...
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Drunk Samurai
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:21 pm
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| Buzz201 wrote: |
| Drunk Samurai wrote: | | Pretty obvious why scanlators don't keep the original physical copy. They literally have to destroy it so they can scan it properly. |
Apologies for my lack of knowledge about illegal activity, I'll try much harder next time... |
Because having to destroy something to properly scan it is only done illegally.
At least you tried.
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GrayArchon
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 393
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:22 pm
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| Buzz201 wrote: |
| Drunk Samurai wrote: | | Pretty obvious why scanlators don't keep the original physical copy. They literally have to destroy it so they can scan it properly. |
Apologies for my lack of knowledge about illegal activity, I'll try much harder next time... |
That's not so much knowledge of illegal activity as it is having ever had to get a photocopy or scan of a book page. To properly scan any book for any reason, you have to remove the binding. Otherwise, you have a portion of the page that curves away from the glass of the copier/scanner. The result is part of the page is blurry, shadowed, or both. The thicker the book, the worse it gets.
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leafy sea dragon
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:26 am
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| Buzz201 wrote: | | I believe library bindings are way more expensive than traditional copies to make up for that very reason. And many countries have Public Lending Rights schemes, where the author receives a royalty every time their book is borrowed. |
Are they? I didn't know about that. I know our local libraries get a lot of donated books--heck, I donated my old Goosebumps collection many years ago when I found out that a lot of kids at the closest library to my house were requesting Goosebumps and I had a stack of them from when I was little sitting collecting dust on a shelf. Does the library still have to pay for these?
Interesting way to deal with borrowing potentially displacing sales in those countries though. It's something I've wondered for a long time, at least until digital books really took off, if the presence of public libraries hurts book sales in any way and why the print business puts up with these library systems.
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Buzz201
Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 266
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:27 am
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| leafy sea dragon wrote: |
| Buzz201 wrote: | | I believe library bindings are way more expensive than traditional copies to make up for that very reason. And many countries have Public Lending Rights schemes, where the author receives a royalty every time their book is borrowed. |
Are they? I didn't know about that. I know our local libraries get a lot of donated books--heck, I donated my old Goosebumps collection many years ago when I found out that a lot of kids at the closest library to my house were requesting Goosebumps and I had a stack of them from when I was little sitting collecting dust on a shelf. Does the library still have to pay for these?
Interesting way to deal with borrowing potentially displacing sales in those countries though. It's something I've wondered for a long time, at least until digital books really took off, if the presence of public libraries hurts book sales in any way and why the print business puts up with these library systems. |
Maybe not in the US, but here in the UK, you can often pick up library bindings from Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kill-Mockingbird-Harper-Lee-x/dp/1439550417/
I'm assuming they wouldn't have to pay for donations, only when they order a new copy of the book.
The Public Rights Lending schemes are often government sponsored rather than paid for by libraries or the organisations that run them. Here in the UK, I believe the government pays for it themselves, but the scheme is not very well enforced. I think it's more of a token gesture, than a serious attempt at providing income, though.
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Drunk Samurai
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:17 pm
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| GrayArchon wrote: |
| Buzz201 wrote: |
| Drunk Samurai wrote: | | Pretty obvious why scanlators don't keep the original physical copy. They literally have to destroy it so they can scan it properly. |
Apologies for my lack of knowledge about illegal activity, I'll try much harder next time... |
That's not so much knowledge of illegal activity as it is having ever had to get a photocopy or scan of a book page. To properly scan any book for any reason, you have to remove the binding. Otherwise, you have a portion of the page that curves away from the glass of the copier/scanner. The result is part of the page is blurry, shadowed, or both. The thicker the book, the worse it gets. |
Or in some cases you actually also get the binding of the book on the photocopy.
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jitlernoeramalo
Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Posts: 1
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:09 am
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{This is an English language website. ~nobahn}
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