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Answerman - What's Wrong With Fan Translations?


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Nonaka Machine Gun B



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 819
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:54 pm Reply with quote
My biggest concern with fan translation is with manga. It seems like the vast majority of the time, any given scanlation group is made up of college kids who don't know English themselves. Some series are unreadable as a result. There are obvious exceptions and great fan translators, of course.
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Kingoanime



Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:03 pm Reply with quote
In general I've held the philosophy that "If you have the means to watch legally, and you don't you're not a real fan" Now obviously I know there are exceptions, like if you live in a country without legal means, but if you live in NA you at the very least have CR and Funimation.com which are free.
I'm in High school so I know a ton of people who use fansubs. for a couple of them I've learned to stop trying to convince them, most are even friends of mine. I'm actually vice president of our school's anime club and I always tell our members about how important it is to support the industry. We don't have access to streaming sites because of our's school's firewall so we use rips of official subs, but I always give links to legal places.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13540
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:12 pm Reply with quote
There is at least one case of a fansub streaming site going legit. This happened just about 7 years ago now (8 years this month I've been using). That is Crunchyroll.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2401
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:20 pm Reply with quote
The column made a really big point about the advantages of the professional translators, but I think it ignored a very important advantage 'some' fan translators have: they are fans.

What I mean is that context is incredibly important when trying to translate something. Being very familiar with a work in advance can clue you in to what a line is really saying. Considering how many series coming out are either adaptions of LN / manga or sequels / spinoffs, I don't think that advantage should be ignored.

My personal experience has been that they are roughly even at the top end, and at the bottom end, fan translations are a lot worse.

Agent355 wrote:
I love this line "Fans imprint on the first thing they saw". Especially when it comes to names. Ever see an Attack on Titan fan refer to Levi as "Rivaille"? Fan translations getting it wrong because they can't check with the creator. It stuck around for a really long time, too.


That is too true, and it isn't even just translations. I mean I will see early spoilers come out for something, get debunked, then months down the line get referred to as facts by different users.

whiskeyii wrote:
Typically I prefer official subs, since I can usually bank on someone there being a Q&A person.


That means hardly anything. I mean most fansub groups use to have a Q&A position. That only really means anything if the Q&A person also speaks Japanese and actually compares the original Japanese to the translation. Usually being able to translate is not a requirement for Q&A though which means it is pretty much worthless as far as integrity of a translation.
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myskaros



Joined: 13 Jun 2011
Posts: 598
Location: J-Novel Club
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:36 pm Reply with quote
Nonaka Machine Gun B wrote:
My biggest concern with fan translation is with manga. It seems like the vast majority of the time, any given scanlation group is made up of college kids who don't know English themselves. Some series are unreadable as a result. There are obvious exceptions and great fan translators, of course.

I helped out with a fansub group for a few months, doing quality checking and some editing. The leader of the group was from Asia and did not have very good English. He frequently "vetoed" my suggested changes and actually argued with me over an English grammar point once. I did not stay in that group very long.
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NJ_



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 2997
Location: Wallington, NJ
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:40 pm Reply with quote
DuelGundam2099 wrote:
I know Funimation and DiscoTek can't agree on whether or not it's spelled Casshern or Casshan. Laughing


It also doesn't help that they were used by other companies as well such as Streamline & later ADV (the same "Casshan" OVAs that Discotek has now), Dreamworks ("Casshern" live-action movie), Capcom ("Casshan" in Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom) & Sentai (original 70s TV series as "Casshan").

DuelGundam2099 wrote:
Oh wow, that is silly. I know DiscoTek tried to make Mazinger Z and Shin Mazinger Z in different titles to differentiate between original and remake.


They actually confirmed the reason for "Mazinger Edition Z" months ago.

Discotek wrote:
Actually the name is requested by the licensor

It has something to do with the Mazinger copyright. They don't want to call it Mazinger Z.


Brady Hartel wrote:
The Japanese version is also called 'True Mazinger Impact! Z Chapter' or 'True Mazinger Chapter Z - THE IMPACT!' I believe the reasoning is because another company owns the rights to 'Mazinger Z' as an anime title specifically. We were required to call it this.


That name was also used when Yamato released the show in Italy years ago so this was either Dynamic Pro or Bandai Visual's call and backs up what both had said about copyrights.

DuelGundam2099 wrote:
the same with the Gundam franchise since Right Stuff is releasing most of the franchise except for Victory for reasons they won't reveal to the public (I sense mole people conspiracy, maybe Glenn Beck and Jack Thompson are involved).


Uh, they actually said they would release Victory at Anime Expo back in July.
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vonPeterhof



Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:02 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
I only have 2 issues that sometimes occur with fansubs
1, Some refuse to translate certain words, and will have a message on the top of the screen telling you what it means. I have seen professional subs do this on very rare occasions though, this weeks Gintama did not translate senpai
I'm under the impression that these days it's at least as common for official subs (at least on Crunchy) to leave honorifics untranslated as it is to remove or translate them. I guess at least some of the translators expect their audience to know what these words mean by now. Heck, the subs for When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace didn't even feel the need to translate the term "chuuni".
MarshalBanana wrote:
2, Some add a ton of swearing, which I'm sure is not there. In Azazel San you get lines like "shut up pussy face",
Well, it's arguable whether or not Japanese even has profanity as we understand it in most Western countries. I mean, there are words that have no function other than to offend and/or express a strong negative emotion, but aside from ethnic and other slurs most words are okay to use in print as long as the context is right. For example, the word "kuso" is a colloquial word for excrement, an exclamation of anger or frustration and a descriptor of things that are somehow inadequate. However, unlike the English equivalent, it can be used in fiction aimed at children, at least as long as it's in the proper context and said by the right characters. Whereas in English fiction aimed at children you're pretty much expected to act like this whole class of words doesn't exist.

My opinion about the use of swearing in translations is that it can work as long as you keep the audience and the situation in mind. Perhaps not every "temee" needs to be translated as "you bastard" and not every "-yagaru" needs to be translated as "f-ing", but if the work is aimed at an adult audience and if swearing would sound natural in English in the given situation with the characters involved, then go for it. However, I do understand that not everyone feels that way. Here in Russia official dubs for Hollywood films routinely replace actual English swears with much milder Russian equivalents; there's even a "fansubber" community dedicated to redubbing those films with more accurate swearing.
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Suena



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 289
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:04 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Kingoanime wrote:
Quote:
Levi as "Rivaille"

This was a thing? Seriously? How did that happen? Laughing


Yep I remember that all to well. I'm in High school so I know a ton of people who use fansubs.

And I'm pretty sure there are still people out there calling Eren "Ellen"
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Lili-Hime



Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:05 pm Reply with quote
DuelGundam2099 wrote:
I know Funimation and DiscoTek can't agree on whether or not it's spelled Casshern or Casshan. Laughing
[/quote]
And we all remember the iconic space pirate...

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Deacon Blues



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 381
Location: Albuquerque, NM
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:13 pm Reply with quote
I've been translating for eleven odd years now and there are times where I'll either be watching something or reading a manga and something will pop up that has me scratching my head in confusion over.

I will admit that I do have a certain bias when it comes to legal releases of Gundam titles (manga, naturally)... mainly because they're passed off to translators who have never even heard of the series before and just translate it as whatever with no real effort to fact check/ask questions. Plus, they use the Gundam Wiki as a source which is rather troublesome. There has only been one translator that I know of who worked for Tokyopop that made an effort to ask questions from the community when translating X Astray and Lost War Chronicles. Of course his work was just as butchered (as he explained) by the time it was returned to TP for editing and processing, but I digress.

I know my translations are far from perfect and never will be, but the localization of some titles is strange at times...
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2242
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:23 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:


whiskeyii wrote:
Typically I prefer official subs, since I can usually bank on someone there being a Q&A person.


That means hardly anything. I mean most fansub groups use to have a Q&A position. That only really means anything if the Q&A person also speaks Japanese and actually compares the original Japanese to the translation. Usually being able to translate is not a requirement for Q&A though which means it is pretty much worthless as far as integrity of a translation.


I should've been more specific. Official subs have a PAID Q&A person, and money tends to (though not always) incentivize folks to do their job well. Because yeah, like you said, unpaid Q&A can to varying levels of quality.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2401
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:25 pm Reply with quote
Deacon Blues wrote:
I will admit that I do have a certain bias when it comes to legal releases of Gundam titles (manga, naturally)... mainly because they're passed off to translators who have never even heard of the series before and just translate it as whatever with no real effort to fact check/ask questions. Plus, they use the Gundam Wiki as a source which is rather troublesome. There has only been one translator that I know of who worked for Tokyopop that made an effort to ask questions from the community when translating X Astray and Lost War Chronicles. Of course his work was just as butchered (as he explained) by the time it was returned to TP for editing and processing, but I digress.


I think the only gundam manga I've read has actually been yours, but I definitely agree that people just getting handed something and either choosing not to familiarize themselves with it or not having time to leads to problems.

You also pointed out another problem. Too many cooks in the kitchen or however that goes. Even if a translator gets it right, the translation can get passed around and changed by other people, and I'm guessing a lot of those changes are not done by people who speak Japanese and check the changes against the original.

whiskeyii wrote:
I should've been more specific. Official subs have a PAID Q&A person, and money tends to (though not always) incentivize folks to do their job well. Because yeah, like you said, unpaid Q&A can to varying levels of quality.


You missed my main point. Whether or not, or even how much, the Q&A people are paid doesn't matter if those people don't actually know Japanese and actually go and check against the original as far as the integrity of a translation. For what you are suggesting to matter, the Q&A people would have to be qualified enough to also be able to be translators, but I'm pretty sure that isn't usually the case. What they're Q&A'ing isn't the integrity of a translation.
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Ryusui



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 461
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:39 pm Reply with quote
I've actually gotten to a point where I don't trust professional translations of manga. There's just too damn much of it for it to all get done with anything but the most slapdash of efforts. Tokyopop couldn't be bothered to get the names or terminology in its .hack efforts right to save its miserable existence, and when a high-profile title like Fullmetal Alchemist ends up with nonsense like "Cselkcess" on its pages, you have problems.

The flip side of this is that I don't really trust the fan translations either, for much the same reasons. I actually tried my hand at translating a few chapters of Liar Game myself because the previous translator was clearly phoning it in; I offered my services as an editor, but they refused on the grounds of "this is just a hobby" (i.e. "it's not worth the effort to make it good"). My work is still floating around out there, but I got beaten to the punch on later chapters by some jackass who ought to be flogged with a dictionary.

The net effect is, I don't really read manga anymore. >_>
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:45 pm Reply with quote
Of course, one cannot simply forget those wonderful, wonderful moments (NSFW) when fansubs have shown us how some scenes can be viewed in a new perspective and with an additional flare that just adds to the experience. Surely, memories to be cherished.
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belvadeer





PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:02 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
Though words cannot express how happy I am that Crunchyroll decided to NOT use the Americanized names. I feel like we dodged a bullet there.


Bearing in mind we didn't technically Americanize the names. Those were done at the behest of a Japanese promoter who felt the show would have more success overseas if they changed the names to stuff that we're familiar with (probably because they thought we were too incompetent to pronounce Japanse names or something). So it's more of a rare case of "Americanized according to Japanese perceptions of North America".
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