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Viz Media Comments on Digital Piracy After Manga Uploader Arrests


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Hyperdrve



Joined: 03 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:08 am Reply with quote
yaki-udon wrote:
I had no idea who Donald Trump was, so I just looked him up. There is something about his smile and hair that creeps me out. It looks like he is a candidate for president of the United States. I wonder if he likes Japan.

He doesn't like how you guys import so many of cars into the US while the US has a trade deficit of over $75 billion with you guys. He thinks that you should do more as far as bilateral security agreements are concerned, i.e. direct military support. He thinks Shinzo Abe is a strong leader.
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Ali07



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:26 am Reply with quote
Well, the timing of the discussion that has been going on here, and the hit that Kissanime seems to have taken is...whimsical. Laughing
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:05 pm Reply with quote
@Hyperdrive - Do not edit out moderator warnings from your posts and then re-post right over them. Period.
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Drunk Samurai



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:13 pm Reply with quote
Lili-Hime wrote:
Ok everyone I was never suggesting VPNs were more moral or anything than just straight up pirating I don't really wanna get into moral arguments because people gonna rage. I was just saying its an option I found myself useful for watching certain stuff like BBC that locks me out because I'm a filthy American. It's worked out better for me than torrenting or using questionable pirate stream sites though as far as keeping my darling computer nice and virus / adware free so I was just giving a suggestion for something that might work better.


Using VPNs are fine. There's nothing morally wrong with using one. I'd use one if I could afford it.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:22 pm Reply with quote
This is a little oot, but it needs to be said.

Lili-Hime wrote:
It's worked out better for me than torrenting or using questionable pirate stream sites though as far as keeping my darling computer nice and virus / adware free


Doing torrents per se does not pose a risk to your computer, unless of course you get said torrents from risky web sites. But what does pose a clear and present danger of virus/trojan/adware/ransomware infection for any computer is the need of many streaming sites for you to install adobe flash player. It is almost 2016, flash is a rotten piece of flesh filled with maggots that needs to go away, html5 encrypted media extensions is the way to go, browny points to whatever anime streaming service that does the switch first.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:40 pm Reply with quote
Hyperdrve wrote:
...
I disagree. At least history shows that piracy can be controlled and that's enough for me.

You don't get it, do you?

Everything anime Japan produces, is already pirated by the Japanese themselves. Same likely goes for manga. Games likewise. If they can't handle what's right smack in the middle of their jurisdiction already right now today, how many yota do you really think TPP will do about it, overseas or domestic?
But, I can't stop you from wishful thinking. Even if it's just that what it is, wishful thinking. Which is fine, I guess...
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Hyperdrve



Joined: 03 Jun 2015
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:52 am Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
You don't get it, do you?

Everything anime Japan produces, is already pirated by the Japanese themselves. Same likely goes for manga. Games likewise. If they can't handle what's right smack in the middle of their jurisdiction already right now today, how many yota do you really think TPP will do about it, overseas or domestic?
But, I can't stop you from wishful thinking. Even if it's just that what it is, wishful thinking. Which is fine, I guess...

Nope. It looks like you're the one confused here. Allow me to explain:

Metaphorically speaking, my suggestion is for the Japanese to sever the head of this nasty problem. Even if in this case the body eventually grows another head, the body is deprived of oxygen and getting its head chopped off still hurts.

As far as the TPP is concerned, I assume that the countries involved are more committed than ever with cooperating together to enforce copyrights, once the TPP gets ratified. If not, then what was the point of adding copyrights into the TPP.

So going back to my metaphor, if some of these sites were taken down that are in the top 1k-3k alexa rankings (lower than ANN) and that make millions a year in ad revenues, and assuming that they're within the jurisdiction of the TPP, then the pirates in Japan wouldn't have a place to upload the goods and get paid. That's assuming that these pirates don't risk being tracked down by the feds and going to prison for free. Even if they would be crazy enough to do it for free, it still takes time to spread the word and have users migrate to another new site. So whether they upload it or not, there still would be massive butthurt if one of these sites were taken down and the persons responsible were put in jail.

On a different note, one thing that wasn't covered in this thread is how these sites can make millions in profits yet they probably don't pay their taxes. So that's tax evasion which is another crime, not that making millions of dollars illegally wasn't already a big deal.

Psycho 101 wrote:
@Hyperdrive - Do not edit out moderator warnings from your posts and then re-post right over them. Period.

I'd agree if while I'm here my freedom of speech weren't held hostage and I couldn't add a wink-smiley because apparently it was too insulting.
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:31 am Reply with quote
Hyperdrve wrote:


Psycho 101 wrote:
@Hyperdrive - Do not edit out moderator warnings from your posts and then re-post right over them. Period.

I'd agree if while I'm here my freedom of speech weren't held hostage and I couldn't add a wink-smiley because apparently it was too insulting.

Your emoticon was not why it got edited out. It was the purely antagonistic and condescending tone of the post. The same attitude you've had pretty much this whole thread/discussion. Behavior you have been warned about before as well. It also was after I clearly said for people to be more civil, stop the insults, and calm down. That's why. You can spare us the freedom of speech argument. It's not going to fly.

Let me also make something clear. I wasn't asking for you to agree or not. I'm telling you as a moderator do not edit out a moderator's warning and post right over it. That's not negotiable. No matter what the post is and no matter which mod leaves it you simply don't do it. That is something that does not fly here and never has. If it happens again you're going to wind up on moderation.
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Zalis116
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:23 pm Reply with quote
GrayArchon wrote:
"U.S., Canada, the UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand & South Africa" constitute "a global audience".
I guess technically they don't, but how many other languages and other corners of the world is a US-based, English-language company obligated to serve?
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Adamanto



Joined: 07 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:17 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
GrayArchon wrote:
"U.S., Canada, the UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand & South Africa" constitute "a global audience".
I guess technically they don't, but how many other languages and other corners of the world is a US-based, English-language company obligated to serve?


As long as people are going to swing the "it's terrible for fan translations of this specific series to exist because it's technically licensed" banner around? Every single country where people have an interest in reading it.

This is one of those things Americans in general have a hard time understanding, but unless you live in a few select countries, the only difference between a series getting licensed by someone like Viz and it being unlicensed is how many people are going to get uppity at fan translations existing. Companies like Funimation licensing a show is essentially them just saying "might as well pirate it, we just locked you out of any potential legal way of watching it".
People are going to want to read/watch stuff they like whether you make it legally available or not, and you can't give a third of those people the opportunity to do so legally and then throw a fit over the other two thirds continuing their illegal ways instead of just immediately dropping the series for no reason.
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Zalis116
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:30 am Reply with quote
Adamanto wrote:
As long as people are going to swing the "it's terrible for fan translations of this specific series to exist because it's technically licensed" banner around? Every single country where people have an interest in reading it.
Japanese companies and manga authors have also been against scanlations for ages (as everything is "technically licensed" under the Berne Convention), so are they also obligated to serve every conceivable language and country now? "They didn't release it in Esperanto, therefore all piracy must continue unabated!"

Quote:
This is one of those things Americans in general have a hard time understanding, but unless you live in a few select countries, the only difference between a series getting licensed by someone like Viz and it being unlicensed is how many people are going to get uppity at fan translations existing. Companies like Funimation licensing a show is essentially them just saying "might as well pirate it, we just locked you out of any potential legal way of watching it".
But that's just unwarranted backlash:

* Situation prior to Viz/Funi/whoever licensing a manga or anime: no legal way for people outside those select few countries to read/watch it.

* Situation after Viz/Funi/whoever licensing a manga or anime: still no legal way for people outside those select few countries to read/watch it. (The industry can rattle sabers, but as people have said, pirates gonna pirate anyway.)

Of course, that certainly doesn't preclude companies in other areas from licensing and releasing something (though seeing evidence that everyone in their potential market is a raging pirate who hates the global anime/manga industry and refuses to buy anything might kind of dissuade them), so I'm not sure why the "we just locked you out" bit is valid.

NA companies licensing something changes essentially nothing for people outside those "few select countries," so getting mad at them is merely outrage for the sake of feeling outraged. Sure, some English-language scanlation groups here and there might voluntarily stop releasing or get takedown notices, but maybe that's a cue for people in other regions to get the scanlation scene in their own language in gear instead of relying on the English scans.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5500
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:47 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:


Of course, that certainly doesn't preclude companies in other areas from licensing and releasing something (though seeing evidence that everyone in their potential market is a raging pirate who hates the global anime/manga industry and refuses to buy anything might kind of dissuade them), so I'm not sure why the "we just locked you out" bit is valid.



As I mentioned previously in this thread, Funimation gets exclusive streaming rights for the entire American continent, but only provides service for the US and Canada. Therefore, when Funi licenses a show, they are effectively locking everyone from Latin America out, by preventing CR from getting it for our region. Even shows in which they share the license (namely Attack on Titan) are region-blocked for LatAm. Prison School in summer was available for CR Spain, but not for CR LatAm because Funi had the license for this continent. There are some other similar cases for different companies in Europe, but I don't know the details. So yes, many of us are being completely blocked out, even if a legal stream exists
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GrayArchon



Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 393
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:24 am Reply with quote
Hyperdrve wrote:
The agreement hasn't even been ratified and already you act like you know how it will or won't be used.

If the TPP gets ratified, what's to stop a small publishing company in Japan from suing any illegitimate website within TPP jurisdiction that infringes on their copyrights? The TPP is supposed to help stimulate small and medium businesses to enforce their IPs and make it easier for them.

Also what makes you think that with the TPP, Shueisha wouldn't pursue sites like mangapanda? At one point mangapanda might have indirectly helped Shueisha's sales but since 2013, Shonen Jump is online-only in the US, therefore mangapanda is a direct competitor. I'm under the impression that you have to be reasonably quick when making copyright related lawsuits. So if Viz could've taken mangapanda to court back in 2013 then mangapanda in its defense could've made the case that Viz took too long to enforce its copyrights. And frankly, I'm not sure if this hypothetical argument would be able to save mangapanda from the TPP.

I don't need for it to be ratified to have a good idea of it's potential effects. It's implications have been well discussed. It primarily enshrines a lot of US copyright law into international treaty, with a couple of added nasty things that may be major changes for some places, but it's not so new and different as to be unpredicable. It wouldn't really give the publishers any more ways to go after sites like Mangapanda than they already have. They can already sue them. Companies like Viz and Funimation already send DMCA requests to Google to get results for sites like Mangapanda removed. There's no need for them to be quick about it. Copyrights are not lost if they aren't defended, that's trademarks you're thinking of.

In short, none of the publishers in question are "small", or "medium", and nothing is preventing them from suing any website like Mangapanda except for their own decisions as to what is the most cost effective way to fight piracy. As for "within the TPP jurisdiction", that'd be a problem when it comes to Mangapanda seeing as the public IP address of it is in Turkey. Ownership is more questionable, but I'd wager it's owners are located in China, though I wouldn't rule out Russia. None of which are involved in the TPP. So the TPP definitely won't help the various manga publishers go after many sites like MP.

Zalis116 wrote:
GrayArchon wrote:
"U.S., Canada, the UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand & South Africa" constitute "a global audience".
I guess technically they don't, but how many other languages and other corners of the world is a US-based, English-language company obligated to serve?


Obligated? None assuming they they acknowledge they only serve that limited audience. If they want to proclaim that they have global service however, then they need to actually have global service, or be called out liars.

However there's a difference between serving an area, and catering to an area. You can serve an area without catering to it. For example, Mangapanda does not cater to Japan. It does not host Japanese language scans. It does however still serve Japan, and gets a chunk of it's traffic from there.

My understanding of the complaints about Viz is that it doesn't just not cater to places like France or Germany, or Mexico, it flat out doesn't serve them. Not only does it not serve them, it actively goes out of it's way to avoid serving them. It engages in geo-blocking such that if someone in a non-english country wanted to "import" it, they would refuse to process the foreign based payment. Even if they obtain an appropriate payment method, if a mailing address not in an area they serve is provided when they demand a mailing address, they'll refuse to set up the account.

In other words, judging by what people have said, they actively go out of their way to prevent anyone not from one of those countries from purchasing a subscription. So rather than simply be a matter of "they don't release in my language", or "they don't offer their app in my app store", it's "they refuse to take my money because of where I live".

Now, I may be mistaken in this regard, as I am going by what other people have said, not personal experience. However, assuming I'm correct in my impression, do you see why people would have greater than usual amounts of ire for Viz?

Zalis116 wrote:
Sure, some English-language scanlation groups here and there might voluntarily stop releasing or get takedown notices, but maybe that's a cue for people in other regions to get the scanlation scene in their own language in gear instead of relying on the English scans.

There is a critical, critical flaw in your thinking there. What happens when "their own language" is still English?

English is an official language in far more countries than Viz serves, and is popular in many more. People in those regions will be seeking Japanese to English translations. For example, parts of south east Asia received an English language dub for Fairy Tail via Animax Asia, before Funimation ever licensed the series. It would be unsurprising for people in the same region to seek English language manga and scanlations, or make their own if none is available.

For that matter, I would not be surprised to learn that the translators for a lot of scanlation groups were actually located in placed like Singapore. So odds are decent you're telling a bunch of people already not being served by Viz to "stop making English scanlations".
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Adamanto



Joined: 07 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:01 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
(snip)


I think you misinterpreted a bit... Yes, of course it's all illegal in general, I'm primarily talking about the attitude shown by people that are fine with fan translation and distribution of works that are completely unlicensed outside of Japan, but who get really offended at the very thought of people doing fan distribution of works that ARE licensed outside of Japan, regardless of how few countries it's licensed in. These people are all American and tend to be very ignorant of the fact that non-Americans exist.
Wanting and expecting illegal fan distro for something to stop just because the work in question became legally available for a handful fans, and demonizing the fact that it doesn't, is just terribly ignorant.

As for Funimation... the fact of the matter is that as far as everyone outside the US is concerned, they're a company that just licenses stuff to prevent legal streams of them from existing. Funi licensing a show means CR can't, which means no legal streams of it for most of the world. Funi deciding this streaming business isn't worthwhile and dropping out of that market carries nothing but positives for everyone except them, which is why people want them to fail. All they essentially do is sabotage CR for personal profit.
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Drunk Samurai



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:51 pm Reply with quote
Adamanto wrote:
Zalis116 wrote:
(snip)


I think you misinterpreted a bit... Yes, of course it's all illegal in general, I'm primarily talking about the attitude shown by people that are fine with fan translation and distribution of works that are completely unlicensed outside of Japan, but who get really offended at the very thought of people doing fan distribution of works that ARE licensed outside of Japan, regardless of how few countries it's licensed in. These people are all American and tend to be very ignorant of the fact that non-Americans exist.
Wanting and expecting illegal fan distro for something to stop just because the work in question became legally available for a handful fans, and demonizing the fact that it doesn't, is just terribly ignorant.

As for Funimation... the fact of the matter is that as far as everyone outside the US is concerned, they're a company that just licenses stuff to prevent legal streams of them from existing. Funi licensing a show means CR can't, which means no legal streams of it for most of the world. Funi deciding this streaming business isn't worthwhile and dropping out of that market carries nothing but positives for everyone except them, which is why people want them to fail. All they essentially do is sabotage CR for personal profit.


CR has Funimation streams.
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