Forum - View topicThe List - 6 Times Evolution Went Horribly Wrong
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3886 |
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I'm also a bit surprised that Blue Sub No 6 wasn't included. Zorndyke messed with evolution with his creations that combined human and animal DNA to create the human/animal hybrids we see in the series.
Also, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet would have fit well with this list considering that spoiler[the Hideauze turned out to descended from heavily genetically engineered humans.] |
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Saruwatari Hatsuharu
Posts: 3 |
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What about (possible spoiler for thos who haven't watched all the way through Hunter X Hunter
spoiler[Meruem and the other chimera ants becoming the strongest beings on the planet due to their phagogenesis incorporating human dna] |
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SillyPerson
 Posts: 39 Location: Vatican City |
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What about Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann? I mean, it has Lordgenome in it, the Lord of the Genome quite literally (a.k.a. the Spiral King), who creates various races of humanoid lifeforms called beastmen that are not considered Spiral lifeforms, not through natural evolution like humans but through intelligent design by him.
And near the end of that show that pig-mole Boota evolves a humanoid shape. The Anti-Spirals are all about halting the process of evolution and destroying anything that undergoes the natural evolution process of Spiral lifeforms and evolves past a certain point. So I definitely think Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann belongs on the list, for the Anti-Spiral extermination policy towards Spiral lifeforms, them halting their own evolution, and for Lordgenome's "population control" measures on humans and his creation of non-Spiral beastmen as a workaround to the limits. Another show I think needs to be mentioned is obviously Attack on Titan. From what I've seen and read apparently {You're supposed to use spoiler tags. ~nobahn} Not entirely sure about all of that of course, this is just after seeing the anime and reading stuff about it online and some of it is just guesses. Anyway the Titans would seem like a really {You're supposed to use spoiler tags. ~nobahn} that belong on this list too. In Bleach there is also a similar attempt at evolution except taking place in a supernatural realm, namely the Arrancar and Visored that are meant to be superior to either Shinigami or Hollows (with Arrancar being Hollows with Shinigami powers and Visored being Shinigami with Hollow powers, both of them the next step in evolution in the supernatural realm, evolution of the souls of people who have died and not yet been reincarnated, to be specific). This evolution is done on purpose by Sosuke Aizen (to the Arrancar) and Kisuke Urahara (to the Visored). I agree with Elfen Lied being on this list, it is definitely all about the murderous diclonii who are supposedly the next step in human evolution. And don't forget the male diclonii, perhaps even more dangerous than the obviously dangerous female diclonii. One of the male diclonii is in charge of the organization that does all of the unethical torturous research on his fellow diclonii after all. Regarding Evangelion, obviously with the Human Instrumentality Project being the next stage in human evolution, LCL being the primordial soup of life, Adam-based life (the Angels) evolving from Adam while Lilith-based life (the Lilin, a.k.a. humans and other normal Earth lifeforms we are used to) evolving from Lilith, obviously it belongs on the list too. I agree that things don't end up going Gendo's way, but they don't end up going SEELE's way either... SEELE's plan was for all of humanity to be united together in one giant organism that would live forever, but Shinji defeated their plan by ultimately rejecting Instrumentality and then Giant Naked Rei died and both Shinji and Asuka were reincarnated as separate individuals with their own bodies again (and presumably anyone else with enough willpower and life force to want to go on living got reincarnated too according to the dialogue in End of Evangelion). So, I'd interpret that as meaning SEELE failed... SEELE had gambled on Shinji having such a weak personality (more destrudo than libido and a collapsed ego borderline) and being willing to become one with the rest of humanity that he would agree to their plans for Instrumentality. However, against all odds, Shinji found self-worth, rejected the idea of being one with everyone after considering it, and thus Giant Naked Rei was destroyed and individual human beings were reborn into separate bodies once again, which was the status quo prior to SEELE ever doing anything, a complete failure of all their plans. As for the other 4 shows on this thread (Devilman Lady, Naruto, Mobile Suit Gundam Seed, and Boogiepop Phantom), I haven't seen 'em yet but I plan on checking them out eventually. Lastly, evolution that goes backwards isn't called "de-evolution", it's called "devolution", there is a band called Devo all about this as well as a movie, Idiocracy... or for people more into classical literature and movies there is H.G. Wells's 1895 novel The Time Machine which introduced both the idea of a time machine as well as having humanity evolve into 2 separate species, the Eloi and Morlocks (this novel having been made into a movie more than once, and the direct or indirect inspiration for tons of science fiction since then including a lot of anime, as it was the first novel ever to involve the now-popular idea of time travel, making its predictions of humanity evolving into 2 separate species the less popular and well-known of the 2 ideas it introduced). The movie Idiocracy is very much a take-off of H.G. Wells' The Time Machine as well as the ideas of the band Devo, written for today's audiences. So for any anime where humanity devolves into something less advanced, like for instance, devolving into those big stupid brutish Titans from Attack on Titan, or human beings reverting into puddles of LCL in Evangelion, that's devolution. |
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Clyde_Cash
Posts: 376 |
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The laws of evolution don't allow that. Specifically, Dollo's law of irreversibility. Once a population has all derived traits, that population cannot devolve back into a copy of the ancestral stock. It's like if you were to go back to an earlier point in your own life and relive each moment exactly as you remember until you got back to the time you left without deviation, so your new present is no different than the one you remember. Obviously, one or more tiny changes in the interim will complicate and frustrate that attempt. The same is true of evolution because you'd be left with a slate of changes which can't be undone. It explains why it's so hard to reverse-breed ancestral forms. There are occasional atavisms (e.g., stubby little hind legs in dolphins now and then) and instances of convergent evolution (birds, bats, and pterosaurs; saber-toothed cats, barbourofelids, nimravids, and the sparassodont Thylacosmilus), but Dollo's law still holds. As for the Coordinators and Orochimaru, they're still human beings because of their ancestry. Nothing stops being one thing and starts being another. Evolution also doesn't allow that. You cannot grow out of your ancestry and never will. Trying to identify, say, when our lineage "stopped" being apes and "started" being humans is like looking back at your own life and trying to determine the exact date and time you had no more childish traits but were a full-grown adult. Same if you were to view all your consecutive ancestors over the past million generations. You would not be able to positively ID any one individual as the first human. All you'd find throughout that time would be communities where individuals only show subtle differences from one another. You would not recognize the year that these once-unique traits came to dominate the whole tribe, nor could you identify any individual who couldn't interbreed with anyone from the generation before. You would, however, find a collection of genetically compatible contemporaries whose genome has grown so unique as to be incompatible with cousins thousands or millions of generations removed. Life is not as static as people imagine. Living designs are a fluid mechanic. The longer a reproductive population is divided and sequestered in different regions, the more difficult it'll be for them to bridge the ever-widening genetic gap and produce viable offspring. Eventually, both groups will grow so genetically distinct from one another that they can't interbreed anymore, and even if they can, they'll only produce sterile hybrids rife with dysfunctions. Devolving; one thing turning into or siring another, fundamentally different thing; impossible chimeras--these are the kinds of absurdities creationists demand as evidence of evolution. Keep this in mind if a creationist ever accosts you and tries to convert you to their pet cult. |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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Don't get me started on creationists.....  
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Flare-kun
 Posts: 92 |
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No mention of the espers from Akira? I'd have thought they'd be at the top of the list.
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Clyde_Cash
Posts: 376 |
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Those hybrids could never, ever exist. Such crossings are only permissible when between closely related subspecies of the same genus, or sometimes in the same family (e.g., between wolves and dogs, housecats and leopard cats, or camels and llamas), NEVER between distantly related families, classes, or other higher taxa (e.g., humans and sharks or lobsters, crocodiles and ducks). |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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This comment inspired me into an internet wormhole about hybrid animals. Ligers, and zonkeys and Grolar bears, oh, my! Did you know that actor Rainn Wilson has a zonkey (cross between a male zebra and a female donkey) as a pet? Or that in many cases, hybrid males are sterile while hybrid females (such as female mules) can produce offspring? It's all very interesting. Not sure if anything I learnt has much to do with actual evolution. But as a speculative fiction and fantasy fan, I'm also interested in scifi evolution, genetic manipulation, and fantasy hybrids. I'd love to see a list of fantasy hybrids next I'm sure there are enough half fantasy creature/half humans in anime to warrant one (didn't a show called Dragon Half about a half dragon girl just get picked up by Crunchyroll?) |
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Chrno2
 Posts: 6171 Location: USA |
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I agree. I'm surprised that Devilman Lady made the list. But then again even in the Devilman stories evolution was a premise Go Nagai used. You see it more in Devilman Lady in both the manga and the anime. I revisited the series some months back during my Go Nagai week. Gawd that show had some really f***ed moments. Especially the whole incident involving Kasumi and the Underground girls, to being reunited with Jun and her evolution. That, was the major highlight of the series that viewers (certainly myself) were waiting for. Looking back at it now it's still a solid series, but I does suffer from a lot of production issues animation-wise. But much of the major budget went were it counted. Chumei's Watanabe's (any old robot show, Iczer-I, Dangaioh, Godannar) son Toshiyuki Watanabe (Dangaioh G) does a good job providing the erie score. |
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Beltane70
Posts: 3886 |
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I hope you don't think that I believe that these things are possible in real-life. |
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Juno016
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Digimon... I'm torn. But I'll go with my literal decision.
I mean, I think Adventure is the best-written of the seasons and I think Tamers is the most interesting, and the second-best written. I only got halfway through Frontier and two episodes into Savers when I was younger, so I cannot judge them (but with tri and me wanting to buy Cybersleuth, my Digimon kick is coming in and I've now re-watched Adventure and half of Adventure 02 so far--and I plan on watching through all seasons finally). I also know a bit more about the side material between seasons (games, drama CDs, books, etc.), which help not only clear up plot holes (sometimes before the plot holes were introduced, meaning only the Western audience missed this stuff... gosh darn multimedia marketing!). Thus, I consider those part of the writing. But Adventure 02, however unpopular, is my favorite season. It has a lot of flaws and really messy filler arcs, but it also has the most personally emotional moments in the franchise for me. Ken dealing with spoiler[Wormmon's death], Hikari dealing with her own anxiety and worries despite her light, Iori's personal battles, etc. all had a personal impact on me, more so than any other character in the series. So I have to choose Adventure for my "favorite" season. {Added spoiler tags. ~nobahn} |
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jymmy
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Well, sure, people believe in Heaven. The Christian religion exists in Evangelion, after all. My point was that Seele wanting to enter Heaven is never mentioned in the show, so it seems odd to claim that's the reason for their actions when they have actual established motivations. The fact that the word crops up in Nerv's logo is kind of trivial, and given that it's a reference to a particularly famous, ironic line in a poem, it's much more likely to indicate a general "Nerv is not the all-wonderful saviour of humanity they are portraying themselves to be" sense. At least that's what I get out of it.
What do you actually mean by "dislike" or turn up one's nose at? Obviously there are parallels that add resonance to the way characters act. Would Lilith be quite so pitiful if she were just chilling on a couch in Terminal Dogma with a development-freezing bracelet as she would if she were crucified and impaled with the Spear of Longinus? What I mean is that, for example, the Chamber of Guf is something established in the show, which has relevance to it and impact on the progression of the plot. While you can say belief in a higher form of life is one held by characters, the pop-cultural perception of Heaven being an part of the show's metaphysical setting isn't allowed for in the same way. Of course you're not somehow wrong to think that, nor would I be the person to make that judgement if you were, but personally I don't think it makes sense.
But it was Yui speaking, not Rei. Yui then continues having a conversation with Shinji, during which we get a flashback to something she experienced. Why would that somehow be Rei? Besides, Rei's final words to people were to collapse their AT fields. That's why Aoba doesn't get kind words from a beloved; he doesn't love or believe in anything, so Rei does it by force, as several of Rei herself. That's the opposite of the situation you've described with Shinji. I mean, you can look at it like that, but then you can think whatever you want if you don't care that it doesn't fit with the established details. Then what's the point? |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9841 Location: Virginia |
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Clyde_Cash wrote:
That is only if you are trying to cross breed naturally. Since scientists are now splicing individual genes from one organism to another it is not clear what is and what isn't possible. Several of the shows listed involved similar genetic engineering. |
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HaruhiToy
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Has anyone brought up Tokyo Ghoul yet? There it is in the features sidebar at the moment.
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sheeeeps
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I was thinking the same. spoiler[The autoreivs evolved towards being human, while the humans they found outside the dome in the toxic caves seem to have evolved or I guess de-evolved pretty badly.] |
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At first, 
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