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REVIEW: Black Lagoon Blu-Ray


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residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1966
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:13 am Reply with quote
I don´t disagree with Nick even if my opinion is slight higher (anime>manga btw.) and i only show up to note the Punisher Skull on the cover.
Yes yes, it´s not identical and the comic´s design can´t be copyrighted but the marketing folks knew exactly what they were doing. It´s kind of a shame that Madhouse´s Marvel shows were mostly crap but they had a good take on Frank in Avengers Confidential (6/10) despite the shitty script. Black Lagoon fans should try it out and the manga needs to end as soon as possible despite not being in publication anyway.
I could lastly use a fully adaptation of Gunslinger Girl by the BL team but that boat (hehe) has probably sailed.

Edit: Hiroe is a hentai artist so none should be surprised by dips in dialogue quality.


Last edited by residentgrigo on Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Themaster20000



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 806
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:42 am Reply with quote
Great review,Nick! I agree a lot on monologues which are just godawful philosophy 101 bullshit(Rei Hiroe is just terrible at dialogue).That and as mentioned it doesn't make the appear like real people and more like caricatures. The last half just got way to stupid for me with the little girl/boy who is able to shoot a machine gun or the guy who could cut bullets in half Rolling Eyes. Then you got characters like Dutch and Benny,who's only purpose is to deliver expository dialogue. It's a well-made show despite my issues with it,just not in love with the series as I once was.

Last edited by Themaster20000 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kurai_Seraphim



Joined: 25 Aug 2014
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:54 am Reply with quote
I like how Black Lagoon is basically the best harem anime ever.

Generic Japanese male protagonist gets pulled into a world with fantastical tsundere, maids, nuns, fairy tail characters, foreigners, and even by the end a Japanese schoolgirl.

But at the end of the day, none of it's about people crushing on him or romance or him somehow having the unique traits that make them better. They excised the annoying centerpiece of the harem genre in favor of gratuitous action and violence.

Turns out it works.
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AnimeFlyz



Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:03 pm Reply with quote
Dub : B????

What were you listening to?
Black lagoon has one of the best English dubs in anime and deserves nothing lower than an A in that category.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3500
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:26 pm Reply with quote
AnimeFlyz wrote:
Dub : B????

What were you listening to?
Black lagoon has one of the best English dubs in anime and deserves nothing lower than an A in that category.

You're making a common mistake here.

The grade you are talking about is NOT for the dub alone. It is the *total* grade for the dub version of the anime -- which includes all parts of the anime, not just the voice acting. That's why the line you cited actually has "Overall" in it, and not just "Dub".

I agree, though, that the dub for Black Lagoon is pretty awesome.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 3859
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:28 pm Reply with quote
AnimeFlyz wrote:
Dub : B????

What were you listening to?
Black lagoon has one of the best English dubs in anime and deserves nothing lower than an A in that category.


The dub and sub scores are actually for the show as a whole while listening in a particular language.

I'd personally rank the show an A since it is my third favorite ever, but Nick's review is pretty spot on, so it comes down to personal preference at that point.
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Videogamep



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 564
Location: CA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:45 pm Reply with quote
I actually enjoyed the characters and some of the conversations even more than the action. My favorite episode is episode 7 just for how well handled Rock and Revy's conversation was and for how much it developed both of them.
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Marzan



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 483
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:20 pm Reply with quote
I'm surprised about how harsh this reviewer is so critical of the use of monologues in this show but they are perfectly acceptable and even worthy of praise in shows that are to his taste (Monogatari series or Gatchaman). The double standards are a bit perplexing imo. Of course Black Lagoon is a 'simple' story that doesn't wish to educate or impress in the same way. But simple action shows don't seem to have much traction with reviewers.
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Saffire
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Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1250
Location: Iowa, USA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:29 pm Reply with quote
Marzan wrote:
I'm surprised about how harsh this reviewer is so critical of the use of monologues in this show but they are perfectly acceptable and even worthy of praise in shows that are to his taste (Monogatari series or Gatchaman). The double standards are a bit perplexing imo. Of course Black Lagoon is a 'simple' story that doesn't wish to educate or impress in the same way. But simple action shows don't seem to have much traction with reviewers.
He's not critical of the use of monologues, he's critical of the fact that the monologues in this show aren't very good.

I really need to get around to watching this at some point.
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Marzan



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 483
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Saffire wrote:
Marzan wrote:
I'm surprised about how harsh this reviewer is so critical of the use of monologues in this show but they are perfectly acceptable and even worthy of praise in shows that are to his taste (Monogatari series or Gatchaman). The double standards are a bit perplexing imo. Of course Black Lagoon is a 'simple' story that doesn't wish to educate or impress in the same way. But simple action shows don't seem to have much traction with reviewers.
He's not critical of the use of monologues, he's critical of the fact that the monologues in this show aren't very good.

I really need to get around to watching this at some point.


And those of other shows are good? Please. For the most part, most monologues in anime are meh at best and cringe inducing at worst.
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Sahmbahdeh



Joined: 05 May 2015
Posts: 712
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:31 pm Reply with quote
I'm a little baffled at this review. Bad monologues? "Squarely aimed at fans of ultra violence"? Did we watch the same show? Black Lagoon is an excellent character piece, with very well-executed themes and some of the most natural character development I've seen in anime. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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nechronius



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 275
Location: So Cal, USA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:12 pm Reply with quote
Nick's opinions are his own. As such, I don't have much in the way of disagreement although I would have rate the show higher (A- overall). Actually a B rating is pretty good overall for someone who generally seems to imply that the show isn't really their cup of tea (or box of ammo, as the case may be).

The English dub was certainly more appropriate than Japanese, because even aesthetically the show is taking place roughly in the waters around southeast Asia and English as the base language makes a lot more sense than Japanese. As for the cursing, a personal preference for sure although I'm thinking that it makes sense that there would be a ton of cursing in a group of people like that.

Honestly though, monologues in many cases weren't always clear in their message or intent, and in many cases it took several readings (or watchings in both languages) to really understand what people were trying to say. It was in these moments where I thought his writing was the weakest. And certainly Nick's review picks up on that point.

Rei Hiroe's preference for a particular era of western pop culture is quite obvious in his writing, 60's era stuff with references to Credence Clearwater and movies like The Wild Bunch. Again, makes a lot of sense thematically since characters like Dutch were shaped by their formative years around the Vietnam War, with Black Lagoon itself being set in the 80's. It certainly made the show feel like it was written for an older audience who grew up in that era, even though demographically the target audience would be a bit younger than that by a decade or so. A lot of his references would really only be familiar to someone whose parents were watching or listening to that era of media as they were growing up to appreciate references to William Holden.
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Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:40 pm Reply with quote
Great... now I need to rewatch Black Lagoon.
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Just-another-face



Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:55 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
In Japanese, Revy's voice matches the dead-eyed anger of her appearance, and implies violence through an almost monotone sneer. In English, she has more of an emotive and snarky tone, and seems less darkly intimidating than just aggressive. It's a shift in character style that will likely come down to preference, though personally I felt the original voice actresses' take was a better match for the tone the show was trying to strike. The other big difference is the dub script lays on the swears far thicker than the sub, which again falls into preference.


It's strange this is coming up again. This is the same complaint that arose back in 2007 regarding Revy (as well as some bozo saying that Dutch sounded better in Japanese for some reason).
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 3859
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:43 am Reply with quote
nechronius wrote:


Rei Hiroe's preference for a particular era of western pop culture is quite obvious in his writing, 60's era stuff with references to Credence Clearwater and movies like The Wild Bunch. Again, makes a lot of sense thematically since characters like Dutch were shaped by their formative years around the Vietnam War, with Black Lagoon itself being set in the 80's. .


I don't know if maybe the manga places it differently, but Roberta's Blood Trail puts the setting in 1995. There is an opening scene in 1975 at the end of the Vietnam War, and then it cuts to 20 years later.
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