Forum - View topicNEWS: Noragami Soundtrack 2 Cancelled Due to Islamic Sound Samples
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Exalted Incarnate
Posts: 283 Location: In the memory of time... |
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I don't really see what all the commotion in the comment columns is for? The reason the second soundtrack was cancelled is because its content could be of offense to Muslims. Nothing more nothing less.
I am actually happy that they are taking everyone into consideration, because Islam is the worlds 2nd largest religion in the world so it makes sense. |
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Lili-Hime
 Posts: 569 |
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I'm glad people are pointing this out. I am not a Christian and I certainly have problems with Christians but it is true. As repressive as Christianity can be at times, it's also been tempered by western enlightment culture to where suppression of free speech isn't tolerated. I don't blame them at all though, given recent events. They probably figure better safe then sorry. It's still sad though; responding to violence with obedience legitimizes it and enables it.
So equality is Islamophobic now?  In this situation Islam is de facto receiving special treatment; especially when you see how much Christian imagery has been used and deconstructed in anime throughout the decades (Evangelion for one). I mean hell, there's JRPGs where you kill a Christian God at the end. Those games have been released in places like the US with little to no outcry. I 100% agree that violence is done by a minority of muslums, but at the very least the perception many have is that it's far more of a frequent occurance in comparison to other major world religions. Whether you want to blame that on media or people's attitudes doesn't matter to me.
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2401 |
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So expressing a desire for equal treatment is offensive? I guess we will have to just throw out that whole equal pay for equal work idea because equality is offensive. |
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Sachiko2010
Posts: 68 |
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I hope everyone who is applauding this situation, or who finds it fine and not an issue at all, understands that they are essentially endorsing the suppression of free artistic expression based on blasphemy grounds. You may want to educate yourselves on the scope and use of blasphemy laws in those countries where they exist. Invariably they are used to suppress free expression of ideas and creativity and frequently result in jail time or worse. You may also want to talk to those writers and artists who have unwittingly found themselves subjected to censure due to blasphemy (maybe talk to Salman Rushdie to start with, but there are many others).
Consider also that if artists were to apply this principle to the representation or use of other religious music, iconography, text, where we would be? Are depictions of crucifixes, the Star of David, Buddha acceptable? How about sampling other types of spiritual music? What about representing a church service or catholic mass, or Buddhist or Shinto ceremony within a particular scene of a movie or television show? Or incorporating a portion of a Hindu spiritual verse in a poem? Are those acceptable? |
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Lupica
Posts: 88 |
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Some anime and gaming content is preemptively censored in the west with Christians in mind already, but for better or worse western society has become very relaxed about Christian identity and culture to the point where every satirical show on television openly makes fun of it on a daily basis. And I suspect that some religious people actually prefer it that way, because it means that Christian teachings are part of everyday life in many countries even amongst irreligious populations.
If Christians led a polite campaign against some specific case where their most sacred customs were being insulted I would back them too, but as far as I'm aware there's no campaign about any anti-Christian content in Noragami currently taking place. Many Muslims felt strongly enough about the Noragami incident to band together and discuss it in a firm, articulate way, and that feedback somehow made its way back to Japan even before the first release; it was a very effective campaign in all respects (significantly more civilised and reasonable than some of the shocking incidents perpetrated by people of all creeds we hear about every day in the news). Although I'm not Christian, I was raised in a very religious environment and my personal feelings are that most of my family wouldn't be offended by icons such as crucifixes, hymns or even devils showing up in entertainment; they're accepted tropes at this point and shared between many different cultures. The believers in my family would simply shake their heads and move along. The idea that Latin or the act of chanting itself is somehow sacred is nonsense (the ancient Romans used their native language in all kinds of vulgar ways) - however, I can imagine a few select ways to use religious themes from Christianity which would rightfully hurt and upset believers. And I would expect the Muslim fans in this thread to be the first to defend anyone hurt by that kind of thing too as they clearly understand how it feels, so unless that's already happened in some previous thread I missed and the Christians received no support, I don't think it's fair to undermine the feelings of the people hurt by this now-banned song based on conjecture. If you're hurt by the inclusion of Christian imagery in entertainment, please make some noise and educate people about it so we can push for change and respect in a positive way. I know freedom of speech is a good thing, but I'm quite uncomfortable with how that's often translated into people thinking they have the right to offend whoever they want and champion what is, in this particular case, a pointless flavour of artistic freedom which even the original composer might not want to support over people's personal dignity. It breeds resentment, and it doesn't create a very nice atmosphere in which to relax and chat about anime. Another thing I want to note is that the people protesting here are unlikely to be powerful rulers or corrupt officials from some faraway place. They're normal, everyday anime fans who are plainly curious and interested in other cultures (or they wouldn't be here in the first place, sharing views with their fellow fans united by a love of animation from a distant country). This is not a case of 'them versus us', it's 'us versus us'. Let's not blow things out of proportion just because some people are unhappy their culture is being (unintentionally) disrespected. Noragami isn't setting out to be a controversial series in the first place so the creators have every right to decide to react to negative feedback when it's so easily fixed. Whether their motivation was artistic, commercial (plenty of Muslims watch anime, as we are seeing here) or rooted in simple paranoia, it's their decision and the choice they've made hurts nobody. It doesn't even harm the people who hate the idea of the television version being unavailable as it's still streaming at this moment in time and it took me all of two minutes to find a clip of the offending track with nothing but Google at my disposal. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 5913 |
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Saying Muslims shouldn't be receiving special treatment over other religions or cultures doesn't really come off as saying you want equal treatment or consideration of other religions or groups it reads more as "Muslims should should just sit in a corner and let people vilify the religion along with persecuting it's worshipers because of the actions of a few". Even if that wasn't the intent behind Kun's comments it's still something that looks pretty blatant. Removed reference to troll post. --willag Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:35 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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NormanS
 Posts: 167 |
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Reminds me of the time when there were some mentions of controversy(?)/discussion on Zelda - Ocarina of Time's Fire Temple theme the early versions of the game [url=http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Temple_(Ocarina_of_Time)#Controversy] had Islamic chanting[/url] as well as the game having the original Gerudo symbol too similar to the Islamic Crescent and Star symbol
In other words, move along... nothing new. Shame its going to be cancelled though, perhaps they can just edit the song or remove it completely. |
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vanfanel
 Posts: 1242 |
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Actually, we are told to suck it up. By Jesus himself, no less.
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5823 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Japan can do whatever they want when it comes to Islam. I don't blame them for their fear. For that is what it is.
It is practically the national pastime ridiculing religion in the United States. If it is perfectly acceptable to joke and insult every other religion in the world (which is done with no problem), then granting Islam an exception to that gives it a special status. We all know why Islam is granted that deference, that no other religion is granted. So even though I decry censorship, I fully understand why they did so. I for one don't want our Japanese anime studios, artists, and mangaka to be visited by gunmen. It is sad anyway. We are denied the opportunity to hear music, that we probably would have not heard before. I like religious music, it tends to be uplifting. |
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Exalted Incarnate
Posts: 283 Location: In the memory of time... |
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@psyco101,
Sorry, I did not notice that. 
Last edited by Exalted Incarnate on Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ikramit
Posts: 24 |
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Poeple keep bringing up other religions when their talking about this incident. However that does not work here because unlike any other religion I know of a large segment of muslims consider instrumental music of any kind in genral something to be avoided and for want of a better word unholy, singing's fine and on weddings an exception , hand drum can be used but thats about it . So using one of the most sacred passages in the know muslim world as a sample in your anime soundtrack track is going to leave that group of people rather uncomfortable and put upon to say the least. Regardless of your own stance and mine I just though I would provide some context
Last edited by ikramit on Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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encrypted12345
Posts: 717 |
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Yeah. How much Christians are to suck up can be up for debate (like what constitutes a Just War and such) but at least for something that this and other microaggressions, sucking it up is the best choice. |
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Lili-Hime
Posts: 569 |
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Umm nope. In a free society all religions, philosophies and worldviews are open to criticism and satire, and any art or music in the pubic domain is free to use. Excluding Islam from that IS by definition giving it special treatment. The ironic thing is you seem to be asserting that using the music here is Islamophic. That word literally means fear of Islam or its followers. Therefore walking on eggshells because you're afraid of what a violent sect of Islam would do is far more Islamophobic than just using the song without a thought. Also the case here is that the soundtrack uses an Islamic prayer / song remixed. The usage itself literally has nothing to do with terrorism or the violent minority. I cannot count how many times Christian bible verses have been used in music even in openly derogatory ways. TarsTarkas's post pretty much sums it up for my thoughts on things. |
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Knight-Hart
Posts: 266 |
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I hope they just change the words but retain basically the same sound. Having listened to it, I'd hate to hear it removed entirely as I really enjoy it.
Last edited by Knight-Hart on Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nacirema
Posts: 58 |
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Anime and manga have been basing their works on different religions for decades. This isn't really limited to Japanese animation. Avatar used the chanting 'Blessed be Amitabha Buddha' several times, most notably with the Lion Turtle. So I guess it okay when Japanese have Christian influences and Westerners put Buddhist chanting into a cartoon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix_MwKHgD8k |
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