Forum - View topicNEWS: Noragami Soundtrack 2 Cancelled Due to Islamic Sound Samples
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2402 |
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How exactly is that? Seriously, go take a moment to reread what you just wrote. Saying no religion should be receiving special treatment means exactly that all religions should receive equal treatment. The two are logically equivalent statements. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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No. As simple as that, no matter how offensive a film, song, book or comic about my religion, my culture or my country might be, the best thing we can do IMO is just ignore and forget. Because as someone else said, either you have freedom of speech or you do not. As someone else said in another thread "give an inch and they will take a mile". |
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roxybudgy
Posts: 129 Location: Western Australia |
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Playing devil's advocate: I think what they mean is that "equal treatment" is not always appropriate. For example, "all humans should be treated equally" seems like a fair notion, but is it really fair if you take away support for disabled people because you think that they should not have any special treatment, take away their parking bays? I have mixed feelings about this news. My initial reaction was that the whole thing is stupid and given that there was no ill intent, it's seems ridiculous to me that any Muslim would get angry over this. Raised eyebrows? Maybe. But full on angry? No. But reading through all the comments, especially the ones from users claiming to be Muslim, I appreciate that I don't know how they would feel about this. And the comparisons to Christianity is completely meaningless, as someone else pointed out, the Bible itself advises not to get your panties in a bunch when others try to bring you down. It's natural and in many cases ok for people to behave differently in similar situations. For many Western households, noone would bat an eye at people walking around the house in shoes, but in Japan and many Asian cultures, trampling through the house in shoes you wore outside... it's as if you threw mud in their face. So I understand why they've decided to pull the track, what's done is done, and there's not really much else they could have done given the situation. |
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reanimator
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It's the latter. With terrible things happening in parts of the world involving Islam, Japanese are not going to piss certain group of people who will do anything to make their point. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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A key difference is that there are different levels of sacredness between the religions. There are a lot of sacred things in Islam, whereas the amount in Christianity is a lot lower (but they're there). Compare Christianity to Buddhism, for instance, where everyone seems free to use Buddhist imagery in any context they like and no one cares. That, and Christianity is kind of omnipresent, so people know instinctively what not to use to avoid stepping on some Christians' toes.
Yes, with this type of prayer, it's considered blasphemous to use it in a context outside of prayer (or study). Islam has pretty specific rules about what is or isn't sacred and what is and isn't okay with sacred things compared to most other religions, and the Koran is one of the holiest books there is, if not THE holiest. It has been studied so intensely that modern cryptography (codebreaking) originated from Koran study.
Two other things to consider: Most people in Japan have also never met a Muslim before, and Shinto mythology and folklore are constantly appropriated into Japanese media. It may not have occurred to anyone working on the show that what is fair game for their own religion might not be okay for someone else's.
Two things here. The first is intent of the creator. The prayer verses were being used to accompany a song without any deeper meaning. The composer just liked how the prayer sounded. It is not a criticism about Islam or anything else, and the composer did not mean to disrespect anyone through the song. It's not what he wanted. The second is that there are different levels of what is acceptable between religions, and that is based on what the followers of those religions believe. If most Jews say it's okay to show a Star of David, then by all means use it. (The Star of David IS holy, but it's a symbol of pride and thus meant for public use.) In this case, there are large quantities of Muslims who consider use of this prayer for non-prayer purposes as not okay. Hence, it's not an issue of fear, but an issue of respect. If we are to promote religious tolerance, we must also be understanding and respectful of people of other religions. (I don't mean that we should never mock and criticize religion, but rather, to avoid accidentally offending people when that was never the purpose. I am not okay with Comedy Central editing down the South Park episode "201," for example, because it IS a criticism on religion. It all comes down to intent.)
This music was not meant to ridicule Islam. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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The thing is, if the iman or the ayatollah proclaimed that no muslim should hear or own "Push Buttons" that would be business as usual. If said CD was confiscated on sight on airport customs of said countres that would be reprehensible but still, not many people would be affected. The thing is that this is an attempt to erase from the face of the world a piece of music. I hate it when the USA attempts to make extraterritorial use of their laws, it is the same if some religion tries to do the same and tries to regulate what I may or may not hear. Yeah, I know that this is already out there and people can download it in some places, but you will never be able to legally buy it and this has a chilling effect Last edited by mangamuscle on Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ambimunch
 Posts: 2012 |
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This is absolutely ridiculous, people these days are intentionally looking for reasons to be offended by! Heck, be happy a popular show used sounds that resemble your culture, why get all anal about it? Thousands of movies reference your religion in actual offensive ways, go fight with them, and stop looking for reasons to start shit.
Watch people, this could end up being the reason we never get a third season: -Money paid to print dvd/blu ray/OST -Money spent shipping them to stores -Money lost canceling pre orders -Money lost shipping the sets back -Money lost re-doing the OST -Money lost re-printing new dvd/blu rays/OST -Money spent re-shipping new versions to stores -Money lost from customers who just went and spent it elsewhere and will never buy this. In other words volume one will BOMB in sales, and for a short show that is 12 episodes that is like 20% of Net Sales from the entire season lost. Not to mention less people buy anime in Japan because it is expensive and not to mention this isn't One Piece or Attack on Titan that are VERY popular -- this could lead to the show under-selling and us never getting a season three. Congratz to those people who started this, your selfishness ruined it for everyone else. |
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brucepuppy
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Poor Iwasaki, he had no idea he picked up the wrong "cool BGM matter" that in fact is related to the crankiest religion in the world.
If you live in a Muslim country and you're not one of its follower, you'll probably get fed up for hearing adzan 5 times a day and hardly find it beautiful. It's somewhat annoying instead, especially when it wakes you up during the loud dawn call. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 5920 |
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I have reread what I wrote and like I said before Mature Kun's comment didn't look like it was saying anything about fair and equal treatment concerning how religions are perceived in the public and the media. It more or less looked they were taking issue with muslims having the audaciousness of being outraged at something they'd would easily be excused for being upset about.
If the criticism and satire of such things are designed in such a way to deliberately be offensive and nothing else then they deserve to be rightfully rebuked or challenged.
Don't know how you came to that conclusion. Since the use of the prayer call wouldn't be considered Islamophobic it would simply be considered potentially offensive depending on the individual.
They could only do this out of fear of what Islamic extremists might do if they discovered what they did? Not simply doing it because they don't potentially want to upset the countless numbers of muslims who aren't violent extremists? Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:33 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Hyperdrve
 Posts: 276 |
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First time I've heard this. Can I ask for a source. I was under the impression that Claude Shannon was the godfather of modern cryptography. |
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Jonesy974
Posts: 8 |
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Completely ridiculous.
A small handful of muslims got butthurt so now they have to go back and get all PC. They're pulling the OST, who knows if they'll even re-release it with the track removed. (though as a nice slap in the face, the OST is already on the internet forever, so that track will never disappear). They're also halting the BD, which means they're going to edit the soundtrack of whatever episodes have it. (though as a nice slap n the face, I'm sure there will be at least one fansub group who will splice the original audio for those scenes with the BD video). If this was any other religion nobody would've paid the slightest bit of attention. But because it's Islam it needs to be addressed instantly otherwise it becomes a global issue. What a shame. |
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mewpudding101
Industry Insider
 Posts: 2206 Location: Tokyo, Japan |
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I'm an atheist with Jewish heritage, and I still participate in the Jewish culture. I hold my culture dear, and yeah, if they used Jewish prayers as a part of anime techno music, it might make me feel... Awkward... Like my heritage of history and suffering is being appropriated without any care for what it means. Now a techno remix of Dreidel Dreidel I am ALL up for! Hahaha
So while I'm a little iffy about artistic expression being censored, the fact is, this does hurt people. It's not "social justice warriors" or something of that equivalent trying to ruin everyone's fun. This is a world in which anime airs all around the world, and information is instant. A certain amount of consideration is needed for things like these. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Depends on what you mean. The man I'm referring to is Al-Kindi, a mathematician who popularized frequency analysis in the Arab world in the 9th century. His techniques were then brought over to Europe, where they were then used to crack encrypted messages during the Middle Ages. Prior to Al-Kindi, decoding was done mainly via brute force, and anything more complicated than a simple substitution cipher was deemed unsolvable. |
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2402 |
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So you're just making an assumption based on nothing that you should interpret what he said as something other than exactly what he said? Because what you were trying to say it doesn't come off as is logically equivalent to precisely what he actually said. You do know that saying about assumptions right?
You are of course free to rebuke and challenge any criticism or satire. That is how free speech works. I haven't seen a single poster here suggest that any of the responses from offended muslims should be censored. They just aren't / shouldn't be more entitled to having people cave than believers in any other religion. |
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mandisaw
 Posts: 140 |
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Beautifully put sir/madam! So often I find folks spouting "Nobody worries about Christians getting upset", which basically tells me that they apparently forgot (never knew?) that their own religion teaches its followers not to get upset. Maybe I'm older than a lot of folks here, but I distinctly remember at least two major occasions where folks received out-and-out death threats for making art that purposefully invoked Christian imagery. Sinead O'Connor ripping up the Pope's picture on Saturday Night Live back in 1992 (when people still watched live TV), and photographer Andres Serrano exhibiting his series on the crass commercialization of Christian iconography, best represented by his piece, Piss Christ. In O'Connor's case, she was effectively blacklisted in the industry for several years, besides the folks threatening violence. IIRC, she wasn't even allowed in Italy for quite some time, and she got a lot of hate in her homeland, Ireland, as well. In Serrano's case, people actually were violent, tried to remove/mutilate prints of his photos on exhibit, and some folks (incl politicians) tried to override/remove the National Endowment of the Arts' "no-censorship" policy when it came to making grant decisions. But that's "capital-A" Art. For more common fare, nearly every major Hollywood movie these days gets a "Christian theatrical cut", where they dial down/take out the sexual(ity), drug, "undesirable" religious/political/social references, etc. It's done to make the film more marketable/palatable to audiences that don't want that content, but still want pop culture. I used to run a 16/35mm movie group in college - we had to be careful not to get those versions when we rented films. Freedom of religion is kind of a uniquely American construct. You can't even call it "Western" - France, Germany, Spain & the UK have no such laws, and in some cases are pretty repressive. But however secular and irreverent our pop culture, the fact remains that people in the States are no more "cool" with sacrilege than any other nation or culture (or spectrum of cultures, which is a more accurate description of the various Islamic peoples). The Japanese composer & production committee here were basically told that they were inadvertently stabbing people in the ear with their BGM. They did the right thing according to *human decency* principles and stopped. It's not about being "politically correct", "catering to Muslims", "succumbing to fear", or any of that other holier-than-thou malarkey some commenters here were spouting. --------- If you really like the sample (and it is pretty cool-sounding) - hey, you just discovered a new musical interest in arabic vocalization. Conveniently somebody earlier in the thread put a name to it, so we can all google away - Anasheed.[/url][/quote] |
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