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NEWS: Sony Previews PS2 Emulation for PS4 in Video


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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:24 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Ambimunch wrote:

Just let me slide my (already purchased) disc in and play my ps2 game library.

That disc contains files with an architecture that is meant to be processed specifically by PS2 hardware. Without the PS2 hardware the disc is useless. To achieve PS2 compatibility for the early generation PS3 they actually had a full set of PS2 hardware that was separate from the PS3, just to play PS2 games. That was really expensive and people didn't want to pay a super high price so Sony cut that from the later models for the PS3.


Sony could just do what the XB1 does - put in the X360 game disc to verify possession of the game, therefore initiating the free download of the digital copy of the game that has been re-coded to work on the XB1. The gamers are not actually playing the original X360 disc code of the game - they're playing the re-coded digital version.

Sony thought it was impossible too:

  • The announcement of [Xbox One] Backwards Compatibility shocked and surprised the world, Sony included.

    Sony’s Shuhei Yoshida did made a statement though, he expressed his surprise and also asked fans to not expect a similar feature for PlayStation 4. "It was surprising. I didn’t think it was possible. There must be lots of engineering effort."

But now they admit it is possible.

Though having to pay for the games again sucks.
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Shadowrun20XX



Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 1935
Location: Vegas
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:35 am Reply with quote
Don't kid yourself both sets of hardware are similar. Despite your feelings on which console is better, backwards compatibility is easily achieved.

Paid emulation is what we are getting not backwards compatibility.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:54 am Reply with quote
Shadowrun20XX wrote:

Don't kid yourself both sets of hardware are similar. Despite your feelings on which console is better, backwards compatibility is easily achieved.

Paid emulation is what we are getting not backwards compatibility.


XB1 backwards compatibility is free - ya don't have to buy the games for a 2nd time.

If it was that easy, both should have had it from the beginning.
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Seska1973



Joined: 31 May 2015
Posts: 150
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:01 am Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
Requiring people to re-buy digital Ps2 classics is a HORRIBLE move.

Also The PS4 does not offer any kind of backwards compatibility." Isn't true as of a few weeks ago, since they already have those PS2 star wars games running PS4. So it should be worded "The PS4 did not originally offer any kind of backwards compatibility" or something like that.


In the free Wild of the Internet, there where PS1 and PS2 Emulators for the PC's that had the power. But PS3 is impossible, because of their hardware architecture. Alone the Hardware emulation of the PS3 would be to much stress, so that emulate the PS3 hardware and the Game, would turn into an Slideshow at its best. But perhaps with i5 or i7 CPU's they can do it...

But, how many have i5 or High gear i7 CPU's for gaming? No, let the VR Fans out of this, they need i5 or i7 CPU's, but are not necessary PS3 fans

Also, the PS4 is technically an AMD CPU. So rewrite this Intel CPU's Emulators to AMD ones, take its time

and yeah, re buying PS2 Original Games (i still have my PS2 Collection here) is not a smart move for the owners and Hardcore fans. But then, some "man in the middle" just need to sell Cheap an fake original DVD, very cheap..
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 3333
Location: Victoria, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:12 am Reply with quote
*Stares at PS2*
*Stares at Rogue Galaxy disc*
Yes, I think I will play this game again. Laughing
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Ambimunch



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 2012
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:47 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Ambimunch wrote:
Just let me slide my (already purchased) disc in and play my ps2 game library.

That disc contains files with an architecture that is meant to be processed specifically by PS2 hardware. Without the PS2 hardware the disc is useless. To achieve PS2 compatibility for the early generation PS3 they actually had a full set of PS2 hardware that was separate from the PS3, just to play PS2 games. That was really expensive and people didn't want to pay a super high price so Sony cut that from the later models for the PS3.

So. you are asking for an impossibility. If you want to play a PS2 game from a disc then play it on your PS2 or early generation PS3. People don't buy consoles for compatibility. That's more PC thing, and even then, the shift from DOS-based to 9x to x86 to 64 bit has cause a large number of titles to be incompatible without significant patchwork.


ps2 emulation has existed for years on PC, weaker PCs than the ps4, keep that in mind. Getting an update for the ps4 that emulates ps2 titles is not that hard. This isn't an impossibility, its people like you who defend Sony for being lazy that claim it is.

Its annoying as all hell to have 10+ consoles in a closet and set up each one each time you want to play a game. I closed my eyes to the fact ps3 games could not be played (last gen was complex and all), but ps2/ps1 games are a no brainier that is not that hard to achieve.

NoremaC-_- wrote:
Megiddo wrote:
Ambimunch wrote:
Just let me slide my (already purchased) disc in and play my ps2 game library.

That disc contains files with an architecture that is meant to be processed specifically by PS2 hardware. Without the PS2 hardware the disc is useless. To achieve PS2 compatibility for the early generation PS3 they actually had a full set of PS2 hardware that was separate from the PS3, just to play PS2 games. That was really expensive and people didn't want to pay a super high price so Sony cut that from the later models for the PS3.

So. you are asking for an impossibility. If you want to play a PS2 game from a disc then play it on your PS2 or early generation PS3. People don't buy consoles for compatibility. That's more PC thing, and even then, the shift from DOS-based to 9x to x86 to 64 bit has cause a large number of titles to be incompatible without significant patchwork.

THANK YOU! btw isn't there also the legal issue of synthesising BIO's for PS2s? simply emulating the game on ps4 while using the ps2 disc would technically be pirating; as legal emulation desires the user to upload the bios from their PS2 as well as extract the game from the disc.

as such simply buying a modified copy of the game built to function on ps4 software seems to be the only legal option? this wasn't really an issue with ps1-ps2-ps3 since they had hardware from the previous consoles in the new consoles and by extension a bios installed on the console.


A Sony console playing Sony games is pirating.. lol wut?

Emerje wrote:
Megiddo wrote:
So. you are asking for an impossibility.


There are working PS2 emulators for PC that can play off of a PS2 DVD or ISO so the PS4 should technically be able to do the same. Even the PS3 uses full software emulation for PS2 downloads. The games don't really care about the hardware as long as the emulater makes it compatable. Sure, using PS2 hardware in the system would be a whole lot easier, but software emulation without upscaling and achievements should be entirely possible for the company that created the PS2 in the first place. But why do that for free when you can pick the games and charge people again to play them?

Emerje


THANK YOU!
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phia_one



Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1654
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:31 am Reply with quote
I actually don't mind having to purchase games again. However, none of the titles listed interest me. Now if they had the Legacy of Kain games...
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:57 am Reply with quote
Ambimunch wrote:

ps2 emulation has existed for years on PC, weaker PCs than the ps4, keep that in mind. Getting an update for the ps4 that emulates ps2 titles is not that hard. This isn't an impossibility, its people like you who defend Sony for being lazy that claim it is.
Your comment was that you wanted to play games on the PS4 directly from your PS2 disc. That is not emulation. Emulation is what Sony is implementing now. Playing a PS2 disc directly off a PS4 is impossible. That's what I was referring to. Now if you want it to be like Microsoft where they're offering a emulated version free for those with Xbox 360 discs, then that's not what you stated.

Good luck with that though. Microsoft is desperate for any sort of traction in the global market. PS4 has a healthy market share over 50%. Sony is not desperate, so they charge. Capitalism, ho!
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chronium



Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:01 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Ambimunch wrote:

ps2 emulation has existed for years on PC, weaker PCs than the ps4, keep that in mind. Getting an update for the ps4 that emulates ps2 titles is not that hard. This isn't an impossibility, its people like you who defend Sony for being lazy that claim it is.
Your comment was that you wanted to play games on the PS4 directly from your PS2 disc. That is not emulation. Emulation is what Sony is implementing now. Playing a PS2 disc directly off a PS4 is impossible. That's what I was referring to. Now if you want it to be like Microsoft where they're offering a emulated version free for those with Xbox 360 discs, then that's not what you stated.

Good luck with that though. Microsoft is desperate for any sort of traction in the global market. PS4 has a healthy market share over 50%. Sony is not desperate, so they charge. Capitalism, ho!


It's not impossible to emulate off the disk it's just better performance to do it off the hard drive. The games are not emulating they're just images of the game disc. What is emulating is the software that makes the PS4 think it's a PS2 so that the games can run.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5886
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:54 pm Reply with quote
Ambimunch wrote:
why re buy it when I own it?


By the same token why complain about Sony giving you the option to buy PS2 games you already own on your Playstation 4 when you can just play the same games on your PS2?


Ambimunch wrote:


Its annoying as all hell to have 10+ consoles in a closet and set up each one each time you want to play a game.



Then get rid of them. Since it's kind of naive to expect every new console to either let you play all your old games or to let you get your physical collection from two or three console generations ago digitally for free.
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Hikarunu



Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 950
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:19 pm Reply with quote
KH91 wrote:


Stop being lazy and take that dusty ass PS2 out of your closet and hook it up. No one is forcing you to re-buy anything. It is an option. Razz

No way, playing PS2 console with HDTV is not a good idea. The console dont support HD resolution gameplay and I need to buy an old CRT TV just for playing old video game. Rolling Eyes
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partially



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Oz
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:46 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Sony’s Shuhei Yoshida did made a statement though, he expressed his surprise and also asked fans to not expect a similar feature for PlayStation 4. "It was surprising. I didn’t think it was possible. There must be lots of engineering effort."
[/i] [/list]
But now they admit it is possible.

Though having to pay for the games again sucks.


I never understand why people in high-positions always say these types of comments. Either they are very dumb, very ill-informed, or just trying to pull the wool over. Any of those options display stupidity.

It is relatively easy to do what MS did. It requires a fair bit of software programming to make sure everything is fine and rosy and the discs interact properly with the console. However that is all it is. The only thing stopping anyone from doing it, is a will to do it, and months of coding and testing.

To say he thought it was impossible, is just incredibly dumb. It makes me wonder how good the software engineering team behind the PS4 actually is. Because while the hardware is good, the OS environment really leaves a lot to be desired. At the moment in terms of functionality, usability, and options unfortunately the Xbox is lightyears ahead of the PS4. Which leaves me thinking that the PS4 just doesn't have a very good team behind it.
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sheeeeps



Joined: 09 May 2015
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:45 pm Reply with quote
ahhh I'm so happy to see news about Rogue Galaxy! Not interested in ps4 personally, but it's a great JRPG and I'm glad the new generation gamers will get to experience it. (And considering that a physical copy is still running for $30-40 these days, $15 for HD digital isn't a bad deal.)
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:57 pm Reply with quote
partially wrote:

To say he thought it was impossible, is just incredibly dumb. It makes me wonder how good the software engineering team behind the PS4 actually is. Because while the hardware is good, the OS environment really leaves a lot to be desired. At the moment in terms of functionality, usability, and options unfortunately the Xbox is lightyears ahead of the PS4. Which leaves me thinking that the PS4 just doesn't have a very good team behind it.


Keep in mind that Sony is not a software company (except for Vegas Studio - can't believe they got rid of that well-known name). Even the PS3 wasn't much improved upon throughout its lifetime. What ya see is pretty much what ya get at the end. But if all ya care about is playing a game and don't really use any other functions or keep track of friends, then it wouldn't matter to ya.
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Ambimunch



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 2012
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:11 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Ambimunch wrote:
why re buy it when I own it?


By the same token why complain about Sony giving you the option to buy PS2 games you already own on your Playstation 4 when you can just play the same games on your PS2?


You restated what I said, why should we buy games on the ps4 that we already own just to play them? And if you mean why am I complaining about that, its because I already own the game. And if you're asking why not play it on the ps2, well I listed the reason why it is becoming inconvenient.

BadNewsBlues wrote:
Ambimunch wrote:


Its annoying as all hell to have 10+ consoles in a closet and set up each one each time you want to play a game.



Then get rid of them. Since it's kind of naive to expect every new console to either let you play all your old games or to let you get your physical collection from two or three console generations ago digitally for free.


You completely missed the point. People say to go play the old games on the old ps2 and how that is convenient, and I said that after a while the consoles pile up and it becomes inconvenient.

Who said I want a digital game collection? I am arguing against them here. And no, it is not weird to want the ps4 to play ps2 games. The ps3 plays ps1 games, so the ps4 can easily play ps2 games if going by that logic. The whole argument here is that Sony needs to add an option to play ps2 game discs. The ps4 plays DVDs, so it can recognize the disc format - and through a patch they can let players play those games.
-Put in the disc and play the game
-If not, put in the disc, let the system recognize you own that games, and let me play that game off a cloud or emulator or whatever. Point is, why pay for a game that you own to play it.
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