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NEWS: Saint Seiya Next Dimension Manga's New Season Enters Final Arc


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valoon



Joined: 01 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:36 am Reply with quote
It's about time
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kloricker



Joined: 13 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:49 am Reply with quote
I still don't understand how Saint Seiya: Lost Canvas wasn't a success. I hate japanese Otakus and what they support in the anime industry... as long as it has boobs and senseless ecchi it will be bought. This trend went on so much that many Studios just put random ecchi stuff just to be sure to get some money back.

With that said... I hope this gets a serialization by Madhouse or Mappa, some Studios that don't fear to be disliked by the disgusting average otaku
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mrsatan



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:01 am Reply with quote
kloricker wrote:
I still don't understand how Saint Seiya: Lost Canvas wasn't a success.


Wait, what? Lost Canvas got two OVA series. How can that not be a success?

Wasn't it Kurumada himself that retconned that series out of existence by creating this Next Dimension manga? (Haven't read it, but that's what I've heard.) A dick move, if true.
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Valhern



Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:16 am Reply with quote
mrsatan wrote:
kloricker wrote:
I still don't understand how Saint Seiya: Lost Canvas wasn't a success.


Wait, what? Lost Canvas got two OVA series. How can that not be a success?

Wasn't it Kurumada himself that retconned that series out of existence by creating this Next Dimension manga? (Haven't read it, but that's what I've heard.) A dick move, if true.


The two OVAs flopped completely and TMS cancelled the project. Next Dimension and Lost Canvas were supposed to be two connected stories but Kurumada's continuous hiatus made this impossible. It is fair to say though that the LC manga didn't go that bad, given that it is still publishing the Gaiden series.
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kloricker



Joined: 13 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:30 am Reply with quote
Valhern wrote:
mrsatan wrote:
kloricker wrote:
I still don't understand how Saint Seiya: Lost Canvas wasn't a success.


Wait, what? Lost Canvas got two OVA series. How can that not be a success?

Wasn't it Kurumada himself that retconned that series out of existence by creating this Next Dimension manga? (Haven't read it, but that's what I've heard.) A dick move, if true.


The two OVAs flopped completely and TMS cancelled the project. Next Dimension and Lost Canvas were supposed to be two connected stories but Kurumada's continuous hiatus made this impossible. It is fair to say though that the LC manga didn't go that bad, given that it is still publishing the Gaiden series.


Yes, I was indeed talking about the anime of course. I loved it, especially Manigoldo how is he not be to liked. Cancer was redeemed with him as a Saint. Deathmask was just so weak and bad...
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:05 pm Reply with quote
Valhern wrote:
The two OVAs flopped completely and TMS cancelled the project. Next Dimension and Lost Canvas were supposed to be two connected stories but Kurumada's continuous hiatus made this impossible. It is fair to say though that the LC manga didn't go that bad, given that it is still publishing the Gaiden series.


I think the first LC OVAs were a big success, actually. That's why S1 took a year (2009-2010) to come out, while S2 in 2011 was fast-tracked & came out in half a year. It's S2 that was a giant bomb.

Regardless, though, I don't think TMS would have likely gone ahead with more Lost Canvas OVAs anyway, because Toei returned to Saint Seiya with Omega in 2012. 2009-2011 was the only period since 2002/2003 where Toei didn't have some sort of Seiya anime production in the works, & TMS took advantage of that situation to their fullest. Now, however, it would be financial suicide for any other studio to make a Seiya anime, since it would be competing with whatever Toei makes, and we all know which studio would win out in the end (when it comes to making money)...

Still, with this news coming out, I think we all know what Toei will be announcing this year. If not this Spring, then I'm sure we'll be getting the Next Dimension anime this Summer.
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CrowLia



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:22 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
TMS took advantage of that situation to their fullest.


I wouldn't say they took advantage of it "to the fullest", considering there is so little merchandise from Lost Canvas. Everyone knows one of Saint Seiya's biggest money-making factors is in selling the Myth Cloths -both Soul of Gold and Omega tanked in DVD/BDs, but the toys are still selling like pancakes-, but there aren't many of those from Lost Canvas, seems like a seriously missed opportunity to make a ton of money
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kloricker



Joined: 13 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:49 pm Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:
Valhern wrote:
The two OVAs flopped completely and TMS cancelled the project. Next Dimension and Lost Canvas were supposed to be two connected stories but Kurumada's continuous hiatus made this impossible. It is fair to say though that the LC manga didn't go that bad, given that it is still publishing the Gaiden series.


I think the first LC OVAs were a big success, actually. That's why S1 took a year (2009-2010) to come out, while S2 in 2011 was fast-tracked & came out in half a year. It's S2 that was a giant bomb.

Regardless, though, I don't think TMS would have likely gone ahead with more Lost Canvas OVAs anyway, because Toei returned to Saint Seiya with Omega in 2012. 2009-2011 was the only period since 2002/2003 where Toei didn't have some sort of Seiya anime production in the works, & TMS took advantage of that situation to their fullest. Now, however, it would be financial suicide for any other studio to make a Seiya anime, since it would be competing with whatever Toei makes, and we all know which studio would win out in the end (when it comes to making money)...

Still, with this news coming out, I think we all know what Toei will be announcing this year. If not this Spring, then I'm sure we'll be getting the Next Dimension anime this Summer.


There is just one problem with this analogy. No one wants Toei to make any anime. The quality is always lacking, the budget is always too low and the animation just sucks and the voice actors hired are also underpaid.
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NateSelwyn25



Joined: 20 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:52 pm Reply with quote
Okay, since we are talking LC here, allow one of the series' biggest fanboys to jump in here.


The original idea for Next Dimension and Lost Canvas would be that, basically, both series would tell the same story from different points of view. Right before work was to begin, Kurumada changed his mind, but told Shihori Teshirogi she had permission to do the story however she wished and published it, telling fans his version would be official, while hers was an alternate history.

TMS has never been super clear as to why the LC anime failed. Slumping DVD sales(The most important thing for OVAs), and Bandai really screwed the pooch with the merchandise. Two figures, one was a copy of another one with a new head, and Bennu Kagaho was poorly designed and released.

I know American and European fans of the franchise highly disliked LC, manga and anime, saying it the focus more on relationships and less on the fighting made it feel like it was not Saint Seiya. I think only having one main character Saint, Tenma, also hurt the series in the mind of fans. Shion, Dohko, Unicorn Yato were all supporting characters. The real show was Alone and Tenma, even Sasha/Athena was a secondary character. IMHO, reading the manga I also got hints of yaoi influence with Tenma and Alone. Not anything storywise, but rather how the two boys act and their personalities. I have no idea if anyone else agrees with that.

On subject, thrilled the manga is nearly over. I REALLY hope Viz will pick it up when it is finished and release the volumes, I have all 28 volumes of the original series.

Okay Kurumada, get to work on the Heaven arc Very Happy
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kloricker



Joined: 13 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:04 pm Reply with quote
^

I had the impression that it was actually received well in the west, but was somehow utterly trashed in japan which actually makes no sense, because Omega is just so much worse but still liked.

[Edit]: removed derogatory description of other anime fans. Also, you don't need to fully quote the poster immediately above you. Errinundra.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:06 pm Reply with quote
It's truly a shame that Lost Canvas failed, though, and that the later parts of the manga didn't get animated because not only is Teshirogi's art absolutely stunning, she created wonderful backstories for spoiler[Shion and Dohko] and a beautiful origin story for spoiler[the Phoenix Cloth] that would've looked gorgeous if it'd been animated

Quote:
Okay Kurumada, get to work on the Heaven arc


Agreed 100% How long has it been since he published the designs for the Divine Cloths for that arc? They were all so gorgeous and I've been excited about it for nearly a decade
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:37 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
Quote:
TMS took advantage of that situation to their fullest.


I wouldn't say they took advantage of it "to the fullest", considering there is so little merchandise from Lost Canvas. Everyone knows one of Saint Seiya's biggest money-making factors is in selling the Myth Cloths -both Soul of Gold and Omega tanked in DVD/BDs, but the toys are still selling like pancakes-, but there aren't many of those from Lost Canvas, seems like a seriously missed opportunity to make a ton of money


I was talking solely on the anime side of things, but I will agree that LC had really botched merchandising, which obviously didn't help.

kloricker wrote:
There is just one problem with this analogy. No one wants Toei to make any anime. The quality is always lacking, the budget is always too low and the animation just sucks and the voice actors hired are also underpaid.


Oh, look, it's the usual "No one wants Toei!" argument that holds no water because it's only goes off of people who whine on online message boards. Seriously, no one wants Toei?

Not Bandai, who makes the Myth Cloth figures based on Toei's designs from the various anime productions?

Not Masami Kurumada, who has worked with Toei ever since the 80s when it comes to these productions, indicating that he had no real need or desire to stop working with the studio?

Not Sammy, who relies on Toei to produce the animation that's used in the various Saint Seiya (& Ring ni Kakero 1) pachinko & pachislot machines?

And, most importantly, the Seiya audience at large, who still support Toei's productions to the point where Tohru Furuya even admitted that due to Omega's success Toei will continue to make Seiya anime productions? The same audience that gave Soul of Gold streaming numbers that indicate that Toei should still continue making Seiya anime?

Don't be delusional. You may not like Toei, and the vocal minority of super-hardcore Saint Seiya fans may despise them (& I'll admit that I'm not always the biggest fan of them at time, either), but Toei is THE big reason why we even still get Saint Seiya anime in the first place. And, hey, you may not have liked last year's Soul of Gold, which is perfectly fine, but I found it very good (any animation oddities that did exist are more than likely fixed for the home video release, anyway).

Hell, Toei even admitted that the only reason Omega was even made in 2012 was because they wanted to adapt Next Dimension, but didn't know when Kurumada was going to finish it. I'm sure Kurumada told Toei that he finishing up ND well before this news went public, giving the studio ample time to get pre-production started. You think Toei wouldn't take the chance to finally continue animating the continuation of Saint Seiya? Do you seriously, honestly, truly think that, after 30 years of being the go-to studio when it comes to adapting the main Saint Seiya series, Kurumada would go to some other studio now?

It's silliness like this that really makes me realize that the "hardcore Saint Seiya fandom" will never be pleased; they are likely the most unappeasable fanbase in all of anime.
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mrsatan



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:08 pm Reply with quote
NateSelwyn25 wrote:
The original idea for Next Dimension and Lost Canvas would be that, basically, both series would tell the same story from different points of view. Right before work was to begin, Kurumada changed his mind, but told Shihori Teshirogi she had permission to do the story however she wished and published it, telling fans his version would be official, while hers was an alternate history.


Well that's what I'm talking about. IIRC, her manga had already been running for a while and then he came along and decanonized her work, which was still ongoing. I'd have to imagine that its non-canon status would probably contribute to people's disinterest. Why read/watch a "fake" prequel when the series creator is publishing a "real" one?

Quote:

Okay Kurumada, get to work on the Heaven arc Very Happy


I don't understand why he didn't do that in the first place and leave the prequeling to Ms. Teshirogi. That's the story that the fans want to see.
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CrowLia



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:28 pm Reply with quote
@Lord Geo Toei may be the company that owns Saint Seiya, and people may watch Toei's Saint Seiya anime (I enjoyed Omega and Soul of Gold quite a lot in fact), but the fact is a big portion of general anime fandom dislikes Toei adaptations because they're terrible. Look at Sailor Moon Crystal. Soul of Gold was great, but it would've been so much better if it had had twice as many episodes to get properly developed, and let's not talk about animation budget. The Inferno portion of the Hades saga was animated on three dimes too. World Trigger's first cour looked like absolute crap (I don't know if it has improved yet), and there are a lot of jokes about how awful Dragon Ball Super looks. The bottomline is fans don't really like Toei as a studio, they just happen to own a lot of big properties, so we're stuck with them. TMS did a much better job with Lost Canvas, it looked fantastic and they really made an already brilliant source material shine.

Quote:
Why read/watch a "fake" prequel when the series creator is publishing a "real" one?


Because Teshirogi is a much better writer than Kurumada, let's be real. The character development and story progress is leagues above the one in the original series.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:24 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
The bottomline is fans don't really like Toei as a studio, they just happen to own a lot of big properties, so we're stuck with them. TMS did a much better job with Lost Canvas, it looked fantastic and they really made an already brilliant source material shine.


I'm not arguing any of that, though I'd argue that LC looked as great as it did because it was an OVA with an obviously large budget (& Toei very rarely does OVAs, having only done three since 2000), but just because someone doesn't like Toei on the whole, behaving like there's any possible chance of another studio handling mainline Saint Seiya is either being delusional or in sheer, absolute denial. I was going to end my post with a straight up "deal with it", but I thought that would be rude. I couldn't really care less if people want to complain about the studio, because it does have its problems, but it's essentially a fact of life at this point that Toei will be animating Saint Seiya as it relates to anything done directly by Kurumada. I just don't see the point in acting like it will or can ever change, and getting defensive & argumentative when someone points out simple facts.

mrsatan wrote:
IIRC, her manga had already been running for a while and then he came along and decanonized her work, which was still ongoing. I'd have to imagine that its non-canon status would probably contribute to people's disinterest. Why read/watch a "fake" prequel when the series creator is publishing a "real" one?


Actually, upon checking publication dates, Next Dimension debuted a couple of weeks before Lost Canvas did. I wouldn't say that Kurumada "came along" & decanonized Teshirogi's work, really, and any problems with LC really would be with the work itself. Personally, while I really enjoyed what I read of it [about half of the series], the constant feeling that it was an "officially endorsed Gold Saint fanfic" [my own words] just pushed me away; my friends read to the end, & kind of felt the same way (i.e. they enjoyed it overall, but it ended weaker than it started). It works just fine as an alternate universe, personally, and I'm going to guess that Kurumada won't be telling his own version of the previous Holy War following the end of Next Dimension.

Also, I'm sure Next Dimension is somewhat different from what Kurumada had originally planned in terms of continuing Saint Seiya. Remember, he tried working with Toei & Shigeyasu Yamauchi on making a Heaven Chapter sequel via anime, but the Overture movie changed too much of what Kurumada had planned, so he decided to go it on his own. If I have to theorize, Kurumada likely decided to more or less start anew from his original plans, so he decided to tell a variant of what Teshirogi was going to go with, i.e. using the previous Holy War's Gold Saints in some manner. I don't think Kurumada wanted to devalue Lost Canvas in any way (hell, he even wrote the lyrics to its anime's ending theme), but instead probably let it be an actual telling of the prior Holy War in some way, while his manga would instead just utilize Sanctuary & his own new saints.
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