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EP. REVIEW: My Hero Academia


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Kirki



Joined: 11 Jun 2019
Posts: 90
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:28 pm Reply with quote
johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:
NeverConvex wrote:
Kirki wrote:
I have noticed that the minute something goes slightly away from the shounen norms = good guy beats bad guy the end, people start complaining about what feels to me like extreme political correctness reasons. But how do we even expect to get any good stories in the midst of so many restrictions?


What restrictions? I don't mind that Endeavor has a redemption arc (although I suppose the reviewer did ask whether that choice in itself is responsible), and certainly don't mind that he had an episode showing him experiencing a great victory. I just think it's important that any redemptive arc he undergoes be handled delicately, with pointed ambivalence, and with considerable focus on realistic portrayals of the feelings of those his abuse harmed.


Yeah, I don't see what is so restrictive about wanting a sensitive topic to be handled as well as possible. No one is saying "don't do this" just because they criticize how it is done. It would be like saying people are against using animation because they point out that it was sub-par in a few episodes.

And like,spoiler[ a lot of us are angry at this episode because we know that the story actually handles this theme of abuse and redemption very well but the nature of the anime season-system kinda messes up the arc. This battle was just the first half of one milestone in Endeavour's redemption-arc and by splitting that milestone with a long season-break the anime gives the false impression that beating up a villain that reminds him of his sins was all it took for Endeavour to repair his family relationship.] We are just saying that the season needed one more episode or a slightly faster pace to really make this part of the story work.


It is restrictive, because they are counting their eggs before they hatch. How do you know that it will be handled poorly? You see a character trying to redeem themselves, why do you have to complain before you see how that goes? Isn't someone trying to atone supposed to be a good thing?

In any given instance that a subject falls off of the sphere of political correctness, there comes an uproar of complaints. And more complaints usually mean that the writers buckle down and are forced to just "play safe" with the themes they are presenting. They are forced to steer away from the difficult (and infinitely more interesting) stuff. And this is where restrictions appear and this is why we can't have nice things. I would much prefer to see how Endeavor's family will choose to deal with him rather than watch the technicalities of how Deku will achieve the Plush Ultra Colorado California Cicago New York Smash... Florida. To off the bad guys. But maybe that's just me.

Funny thing though, murder has been far more acceptable as a theme than any other "difficult" topic. Maybe it's because luckily only a few have to deal with murder in their daily lives, but quite a lot of people might be facing troubles of abuse.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:09 pm Reply with quote
Nyren wrote:
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but before Ep88 I never saw a single hint that Todoroki had siblings....
To my knowledge they appear as early as the match between Shoto and Deku during the Sports Festival as part of a flashback. You see them playing down in a courtyard while Endeavor drags Shoto by the hand...
Thanks very much! Ep23...I thought the kids he saw playing were neighborhood kids...Gotta admit, that was an obscure call-back...
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Marimo0



Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Posts: 178
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:29 pm Reply with quote
Nyren wrote:
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but before Ep88 I never saw a single hint that Todoroki had siblings. I'd been wondering all season who the girl/boy in the Ed photo were and looking for them, now I know. Heck, I even found LaBrava in one. Could someone shed some light on this, because this seemed like an "out of left field" addition for no discernible reason except to get focus off Todoroki's reaction...
To my knowledge they appear as early as the match between Shoto and Deku during the Sports Festival as part of a flashback. You see them playing down in a courtyard while Endeavor drags Shoto by the hand. The whole point of Endeavor marrying their mother as part of a Quirk Marriage aka Arranged Marriage, was to produce a "perfect" quirk aka his hellfire and Rei's ice. The fire offsets the frostbite of the ice and the ice cools off the heat from the fire. All THREE of his siblings did not turn out the way that Endeavor was hoping. Shoto, on the other hand, did. So Endeavor largely neglected the rest of his family and focused on training Shoto, brutally. And like I said, he has three total siblings. The third is shown in that same flashback playing with the others, the boy with the completely red messy hair. He does not appear in this latest episode nor is he ever mentioned. The implication being that something happened to him at some point and he's no longer around. The prevailing theory is that Endeavor did something to him. If you want to take that theory a step further spoiler[people speculate that after whatever happened he grew up to become Dabi.]

We also saw Todoroki's sister, Fuyumi, right after the sports fest, when Todoroki was getting ready to go to the hospital to see his mom for the first time in years.

Chichiryuutei wrote:
You could make that deduction or you could deduce that Endeavor brushed her aside, she hit a wall (or something else) and felt down. We just don't know but your deduction depends on how you want the action to be viewed so that you can strengthen your already made up view of Endeavor (or any other character you might not like).

There's no way he brushed her and made her hit a wall or made her fall down or something because before, she was already kneeling down in the middle of a dojo where there was nothing near them, not even a wall. Not to mention the sound effect was definitely the kind used when one person hits another, not the thud of someone stumbling into something. I even checked the manga, and they used a slap sound effect.

And it's not exactly a stretch to believe that he was physically abusive to his wife considering before that happened, he had just hit Todoroki, his son who was 5 at the time, so hard he was throwing up, and Rei was begging him to stop.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 2864
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:26 am Reply with quote
I think I would have preferred it if they had stuck a couple of filler episodes in the middle of the season so that they could have ended the coeur with Gentle and La Brava. Tonally, I feel as though this arc would have been way better as a season five opener than a season four ender.

MoonStar9 wrote:
Fixed that for you. There's social stigma regarding divorce in Japan as far as I'm aware.


Yes, a stigma for divorced women much more than divorced men:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/japan-is-no-place-for-single-mothers/538743/
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Ensaru64



Joined: 14 Nov 2018
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:05 am Reply with quote
I agree with the sentiment that I often find reviews which mostly talk about preemptive judgements over sensitive topics made personal by the reviewer a very frustrating read. It didn't feel great when Goblin Slayer aired, it surely doesn't now. In fact, it's generally very distracting to the review itself.

While I'm glad that the review at least didn't forget to talk about everything else, there's a point where musings become a bit too personal and closer to useless information for the reader.

Shonen does have a tendency of having perpetrators be easily forgiven with naught but a slap on the wrist, so I at least agree with that. I would also love to see abusive characters be handled with more complexity unlike other shonen series which tend to quickly absolve the plot-line in favour of making characters likeable, but I'm not going to be up all night if they didn't.
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Everlasting Coconut



Joined: 22 Jul 2019
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:33 am Reply with quote
Chichiryuutei wrote:
You could make that deduction or you could deduce that Endeavor brushed her aside, she hit a wall (or something else) and felt down. We just don't know but your deduction depends on how you want the action to be viewed so that you can strengthen your already made up view of Endeavor (or any other character you might not like).


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Chichiryuutei



Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 186
Location: Silicon Valley
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:17 am Reply with quote
Everlasting Coconut wrote:
Chichiryuutei wrote:
You could make that deduction or you could deduce that Endeavor brushed her aside, she hit a wall (or something else) and felt down. We just don't know but your deduction depends on how you want the action to be viewed so that you can strengthen your already made up view of Endeavor (or any other character you might not like).




Lol at your gif.

Idk if many are over emphasizing this memory or really thinking it through. All I'm saying is that we don't know if Endeavor abused his wife (physically or otherwise) or not. The sequence above smells a lot like a sport's development dad in overdrive. Todoroki's mom (been a good mother) tried to stop Endeavor from over training their kid but Endeavor chooses to not listen at all (tunnel vision) and just drags Todoroki out.

All of this is from Todoroki's view point. And, that's very telling on purpose because he's a stressed little kid that doesn't really understand why his dad is been so mean (pushing) with him and he's already seen the stress levels of his mom (& is worried). We don't see Endeavor side (or at least haven't yet). I think this is important because we don't know Endeavor's emotional impact in this memory: did he think good riddance "that's what you get" or "I didn't mean to hit you."

Also, I know many think that Endeavor hasn't suffered emotionally/personally from his horrible father's days and I think they're mistaking. Endeavor is clearly a broken man, he's a stranger to his family, he's a stranger to the public (bad guy persona), he's unsatisfied with his development status but he has shown signs that he's changing (for the better). Do I think he should be forgiven immediately? Nope. Should he have any hope of exoneration if he continually works towards making up for his bad days and becomes a better person to all? Yeah...eventually. Endeavor gives an air of Vegeta... And last I checked, that's 1 of (if not the most) beloved characters in Dragon Ball.

I love how all religions teaches you to forgive those that have wrong you in the past but the practitioners say "nah, that part isn't for me... Talk about the eternity stuff again."
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Marimo0



Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Posts: 178
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:33 am Reply with quote
Chichiryuutei wrote:
Lol at your gif.

Idk if many are over emphasizing this memory or really thinking it through. All I'm saying is that we don't know if Endeavor abused his wife (physically or otherwise) or not. The sequence above smells a lot like a sport's development dad in overdrive. Todoroki's mom (been a good mother) tried to stop Endeavor from over training their kid but Endeavor chooses to not listen at all (tunnel vision) and just drags Todoroki out.

All of this is from Todoroki's view point. And, that's very telling on purpose because he's a stressed little kid that doesn't really understand why his dad is been so mean (pushing) with him and he's already seen the stress levels of his mom (& is worried). We don't see Endeavor side (or at least haven't yet). I think this is important because we don't know Endeavor's emotional impact in this memory: did he think good riddance "that's what you get" or "I didn't mean to hit you."

Also, I know many think that Endeavor hasn't suffered emotionally/personally from his horrible father's days and I think they're mistaking. Endeavor is clearly a broken man, he's a stranger to his family, he's a stranger to the public (bad guy persona), he's unsatisfied with his development status but he has shown signs that he's changing (for the better). Do I think he should be forgiven immediately? Nope. Should he have any hope of exoneration if he continually works towards making up for his bad days and becomes a better person to all? Yeah...eventually.

I love how all religions teaches you to forgive those that have wrong you in the past but the practitioners say "nah, that part isn't for me... Talk about the eternity stuff again."

The story doesn't treat it as ambiguous as you keep making it out to be. Just because it's from Todoroki's perspective doesn't mean it's not what actually happened. Not even a sport's dad pushes their kid to the point of throwing up. No matter what the reason, at that point it becomes abusive. And we are definitely meant to get that Rei was suffering as well, considering we later see a scene of her talking to her mother fearfully saying how she has to get out of the house, and the side of Todoroki's face that resembles Endeavor gave her a panic attack that caused her to lash out at Todoroki and wind up put into a mental hospital. That's not the signs of a healthy lifestyle. And if the next excuse is something like maybe Rei was always unstable and Endeavor wasn't to blame, then not only is that not what's been said in the narrative, and it risks turning the story toxic by turning the message into, "The person who is accused of abuse may actually be perfectly innocent, and the ones who are saying their victims of abuse are actually wrong or insane", which is just a terrible thing in this day and age where we are learning more about how much abuse goes unreported and victims being gas lighted.

The story simply doesn't paint this as something to be ambiguous about. Even Endeavor doesn't offer any alternatives to what his past actions were, only that he is now reflecting on his actions and wants to try to be better.

Also, that religious comment is uncalled for. No one has mentioned religious practices or whatnot, and you are moving the discussion away from our reading of the Endeavor storyline into trying to shame anyone trying to argue against you.
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lossthief



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 728
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:38 am Reply with quote
Chichiryuutei wrote:

Idk if many are over emphasizing this memory or really thinking it through. All I'm saying is that we don't know if Endeavor abused his wife (physically or otherwise) or not. The sequence above smells a lot like a sport's development dad in overdrive. Todoroki's mom (been a good mother) tried to stop Endeavor from over training their kid but Endeavor chooses to not listen at all (tunnel vision) and just drags Todoroki out.


OK let's just stop right there. You can feel however you want about Endeavor's story arc in either version, but this is just getting ridiculous. Even if we never directly saw Endeavor hitting Rei on the page/screen, every single bit of context for their home life and that scene in particular is built around the fact that yes, he was physically abusive. We don't know the full extent, but it was obviously enough to psychologically corner her until she, y'know, maimed her own son during an onset breakdown.

Trying to play Schrodinger's Domestic Violence is a seriously misguided attempt to soften a storyline that we have been given no reason to believe was any less terrible than what was shown during Todoroki's flashbacks. By your logic we also never saw Endeavor directly hit his 5-year-old son so for all we know Shoto just got a real bad tummy ache and fell over when his dad patted his back too hard. But we know that's not what happened because nothing about that scene or the surrounding story would make any sense if it was.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1788
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:23 pm Reply with quote
As an anime-only viewer, hearing that there are hard talks that may be upcoming give me hope, because anime/manga in general has a real bad time squaring abusive parental behavior with communal harmony (the most recent anime I can recall that didn't was Stars Align, and that actually broached the subject of divorce.) But since Stars Align is clearly a social outlier, and divorce isn't on the table for a more mainstream title like MHA, I'll settle for Endeavor does his best, doesn't brush off his past, and he and Todoroki have a Zuko-Firelord relationship where Todoroki doesn't exactly *like* his dad, but does acknowledge that Endeavor has worthwhile stuff to teach him. Still can't decide how I feel about Rei and Todoroki acknowledging Endeavor is trying to be better, because they seem to have been the people most badly affected by Endeavor's behavior, but I like that at least some of the siblings are like "GTFO, don't ever contact me again".
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MoonStar9



Joined: 01 Aug 2017
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:31 pm Reply with quote
lossthief wrote:
Chichiryuutei wrote:

Idk if many are over emphasizing this memory or really thinking it through. All I'm saying is that we don't know if Endeavor abused his wife (physically or otherwise) or not. The sequence above smells a lot like a sport's development dad in overdrive. Todoroki's mom (been a good mother) tried to stop Endeavor from over training their kid but Endeavor chooses to not listen at all (tunnel vision) and just drags Todoroki out.


OK let's just stop right there. You can feel however you want about Endeavor's story arc in either version, but this is just getting ridiculous. Even if we never directly saw Endeavor hitting Rei on the page/screen, every single bit of context for their home life and that scene in particular is built around the fact that yes, he was physically abusive. We don't know the full extent, but it was obviously enough to psychologically corner her until she, y'know, maimed her own son during an onset breakdown.

Trying to play Schrodinger's Domestic Violence is a seriously misguided attempt to soften a storyline that we have been given no reason to believe was any less terrible than what was shown during Todoroki's flashbacks. By your logic we also never saw Endeavor directly hit his 5-year-old son so for all we know Shoto just got a real bad tummy ache and fell over when his dad patted his back too hard. But we know that's not what happened because nothing about that scene or the surrounding story would make any sense if it was.


I kid you not, these are the kinds of mental gymnastics a surprisingly high number of manga readers have performed for the last 2 and a half years whenever I mention the controversial topic of redeeming a domestic abuser. Just for consideration, I've posed the question of what scenario a woman who is so traumatised of her husband that she'd burn her own child's face because of their resemblance would lawfully consent to sexual relations and I've gotten so many ludicrous responses that I just had to assume they're young and drop the convo. Physical spousal and child abuses are evidently quite easily redeemable in most eyes but I knew the moment I posed the possibility of domestic rape, many would get defensive. That's a step too far. Either you believe in second chances or you don't, but don't try to minimise the gravity of what Endeavor did so you can view the character through rose-coloured glasses. Imagine looking at mature discussions of the sensitivity of the topic as "political correctness".... None of this is targeted at you, btw.
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Gasero



Joined: 24 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Chichiryuutei wrote:
Idk if many are over emphasizing this memory or really thinking it through. All I'm saying is that we don't know if Endeavor abused his wife (physically or otherwise) or not. The sequence above smells a lot like a sport's development dad in overdrive. Todoroki's mom (been a good mother) tried to stop Endeavor from over training their kid but Endeavor chooses to not listen at all (tunnel vision) and just drags Todoroki out.

Also, I know many think that Endeavor hasn't suffered emotionally/personally from his horrible father's days and I think they're mistaking. Endeavor is clearly a broken man, he's a stranger to his family, he's a stranger to the public (bad guy persona), he's unsatisfied with his development status but he has shown signs that he's changing (for the better).

C'mon, folk. Rei is so afraid of Endeavor that she physically scalded her son because of his resemblance to Endeavor. Let's not downplay the obvious implication of serious domestic abuse.

Perhaps Endeavor is emotionally suffering because of his past actions towards his family and others. Perhaps his pain will play out in the show/manga. This is the perfect time to list our grievances with his character and request that these things be addressed. I don't think people in this thread are saying that Endeavor is beyond redemption (or at least forgiveness). I think many people are requesting that the writers and editors take this issue seriously and address our concerns before claiming that Endeavor has been redeemed.

Endeavor made a choice that caused serious harm to his family. Until I see him understand what harm he caused, regrets that he did it, figures out a way to earn the forgiveness of his family, and encourages others not to do the same, I won't forgive him for what he did.

I appreciate Horikoshi and other staff on the MHA team for embracing this sort of theme in a shonen action manga series, and I am hoping that they do not brush it aside for the simple convenience of a flawed hero character redemption arc.
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Gray Lensman



Joined: 17 Mar 2019
Posts: 110
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:30 pm Reply with quote
All I can say is that it looks like any redemption for Endeavor is going to take some time.

spoiler[At the end of the upcoming story arc he still isn't quite forgiven from what I have heard as neither one of his present sons seems willing to fully forgive him even after one is almost killed - although I am only really aware of the basics of the story since I'm not a reader. The reactions to the possible implications of this story arc intrigued me enough to look for some basic spoilers. Also of note is that Endeavor hasn't completely changed - it's still a work in progress as shown by him not being happy when Shoto brings Deku and Bakugou along - even telling the latter two that he doesn't care about them and setting a near impossible task for them to accomplish.]
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Everlasting Coconut



Joined: 22 Jul 2019
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:16 pm Reply with quote
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
Thanks very much! Ep23...I thought the kids he saw playing were neighborhood kids...Gotta admit, that was an obscure call-back...


Iirc, his older sister also made an appearance at the end of the sports festival arc, when she asked Shoto if he was sure he wanted to visit their mother.
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4069
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:33 am Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
Hawks seems like a total asshole, like an awful, amoral person inside who's probably even worse than Endeavor.


its even worse! that SOB spoiler[ is basically a secret gov't assasin ala one piece's CP9 who have the authority to actually kill villains!!!! which is what he did to twice just recently ] in the most recent arc of the manga!

im gonna feel really bad for tokoyami when he finds out the truth which have me concerned too.
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