Forum - View topicINTEREST: U.S. State Department Includes Japan's 'Unfettered' Access to Animated Porn in Human Right
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3767 |
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Some would take issue with your dismissal of LGBT as not a legitimate issue, but I'll leave that to others. Even the relevant section isn't all about child porn. Most deals with exploitation of actual minor children not fictional child porn. It talks as much about "JK business" where underage high school girls are employeed in situations that frequently end in prostitution, specifically compensated dating, massage parlors, cafe server. The last one doesn't strike me as a position that would necessarily lead to prostitution, though it does seem possible they could, considering some of the services I've heard some maid cafes offer, not to say they aren't on the up and up usually. It seems like a position that doesn't require a ban on high schoolers performing, just rules to prevent things from going bad and to sue restaurants that pressure employees to allow customers to pay them for other services, though I'm not sure if they engage in as many lawsuits as they do in the US. So no it's not all about child porn, drawn or otherwise. And it's not even mostly about sexual exploitation of children. All those other issues make up most of the issues talked about in the report. Lest you think the reports are totally focused on areas of improvement for other countries, at least for Japan, most of the report is good. On most of the issues addressed in the report, it basically says they do a good job in those. It isn't all badmouthing other countries. They also recognize where countries are doing well, which for most liberal (in the geopolitical sense not American political sense) democracies is most human rights. |
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lebrel
Posts: 374 |
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The circumstances around the original law have been pretty extensively discussed in academic works on obscenity, which I am too lazy to look for the details of right now; try searching Google Scholar and Google Books.
The Japanese anti-c.p. law was covered extensively in regards the proposed extension to cover anime and manga; translations of the key bits were posted on a number of sites, I think including this one. The broadness of the definition was repeatedly raised as an objection to including anime and manga under its umbrella. And whether the average Japanese voter knows the exact wording is irrelevant; how many US laws can you quote in detail?
Junior idol stuff is calibrated to stay on the right side of the law, for obvious reasons. And in the 90's the "questionableness" of 16 and 17 year old nudes just wasn't on the radar. For instance, the nudie photo book that started the court case that led to the decriminalization of visible pubic hair, Santa Fe, contains some shots of the model when she was 17; no-one even mentioned the model's age as a problem during the giant legal battle and enormous amount of mass media coverage that followed. |
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AnimeLordLuis
 Posts: 1626 Location: The Borderlands of Pandora |
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The two things in this world that should NEVER share the same bed are Politics and Anime "you gotta keep them separated" damn now I got that song stuck in my head.
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Shadowrun20XX
 Posts: 1935 Location: Vegas |
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It's all talk, busy work. Business as usual. What has changed prior to this? Nothing. You think after all these years something would change.
All talk no walk. |
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bs3311
 Posts: 416 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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@zrnzle500
thanks for not blowing my statements out of proportion.
Its more of a questionable issue. For a country that follows the left, they haven't gone as far as LGBT extremes. And yes there can be issues with that, but I see some people blow them out of proportion. Plus there is little nuance in said cases compared to the prison or minority reports. Its just, "Oh, this and that occurred. NGO is answering stuff. NEXT". Though people can look at the government and assume it relates to the people. But majority of japanese folk approve of same sex marriage. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-29/majority-of-japanese-support-same-sex-marriage-poll-shows And the feminism line is a very dangerous tightrope to wiggle around with. 1, just because there are not enough women or transgendered people in the work force or in high elected positions does not mean the work force or political groups are anti women or LBGT. You don't hire someone depending on their genitalia. That is regressive thinking. You hire them for the quality of work they do. More grounded reasons could be the employers not able to handle women on pregnancy care for work, or early retirement with the first one being mentioned as a case in the report. Plus not any lgbt/feminism issue. But I can see in a business perspective on companies not having a minimum number employees with disabilities or even some women if I read correctly. 1st point I already mentioned for women but disabled also requires investment and services that are expensive just for a few people, that It would be best to just pay the fine and not have to put in so much work on a few employees in a system that sounds less about equality and more legit sexist or discriminatory by writing in your check list on how many people of a specific sex, disability or skin tone you need to not pay a fine or get benefits. So yeah, its a questionable issue imo. Not denying that its a reasonable issue, but want to cool down the flames and have a calm mind.
Yes, but they seemed legit depending on my own observation as I mentioned about everything besides a few LGBT and the child pornography material needing to be taken attention. Plus its real people. |
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Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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You can't expect me to find the resources you read accounting for the hesitation amongst lawmakers to pass an anti-possession law due to "potentially illegal magazines lying around from the 90's". You brought up the point after all, it understandably shouldn't be my place to substantiate it.
It's not the voter's knowledge of the exact wording of the law that raises my suspicions on your information of the subject, but that you're implying there may have been an awareness amongst Japanese constituents interpreting such details to mean that these lingering old magazines could get them in trouble, and that this general public awareness somehow led to what you seem to suggest was "understandable" legislative hesitation. Again, my issue is with your reasoning for why it took so long for the legislation to pass, and it's difficult to believe that the average Japanese citizen would have felt as though they even possessed child pornography, let alone be sufficiently concerned enough to push legislators to hold back from passing such a law. Are you saying that lawmakers were worried for 15 years that people were holding on to what you called "trashy tabloids and idol magazines" from the 90's? Despite Japan being a country that regularly treats magazines as ephemeral/disposable entertainment? It also makes me question your doubts of publisher influence on the politics surrounding such laws, when you mentioned that "the broadness of the definition [of what constitutes child pornography] was repeatedly raised as an objection to including anime and manga under its umbrella". That seems to suggest some outcry either from the fandom or publishers in response to the legislation, which is certainly something I'm more familiar with than your claims of citizens being worried that "magazines in the attic" might get them in trouble.
I think it's more honest to say that junior idol stuff is calibrated to skirt as close to the wrong side of the law as possible without explicitly crossing over. The very fact that idol groups such as "Girlfriend" have come to pass in recent years, with meet-and-greets involving adult male fans who are allowed to physically interact with said idols, lifting them onto their crotches and even playing games of Twister with them, is telling enough as to how far these industries are willing to go to sell these kids to their creepy, perverted fanbase. I'm generally not aware of the child idol scene in the 90's (it certainly didn't seem anywhere near as prevalent in anime back then as it is today), but I at least haven't heard any incidents from the period that were anywhere quite so glaringly objectionable. |
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manapear
Posts: 1525 |
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It's nice to hear that social acceptance of ethnic Koreans has improved. I hope that continues to be the case. Newsline has been showing that a number of Japanese (and Chinese) people hope the relations between them improve as well, and I hope that to be the case too.
The hilarious (as in, absolutely hypocritical, ironic and shady) part to me, is the mention of police targeting dark-skinned Asians and African descent people, and basically everything in that last paragraph. Reading it, I wasn't sure if it was directed at Japan or the US. Is this info a confirmation from Japan itself? If so, it is important and should be referenced to those that make light of race issues in Japan. On the flip side, I hope the report is also very brutal on us as well and how horrid and torrential those exact same things are here. While the targeting and killings of Black people by the police are a problem, people don't even realize Asians are targeted as well (because of the model minority stereotype). It's sad how serious of an issue this is, regardless of country. (And scary how things are shifting all over the world.) I wonder if anything is ever done after these surveys in a more official capacity to bring a change to these things? For one, the industry that uses (very) younger girls for dating and the more skeevy stuff absolutely needs to go. I remember reading about a mom finding out how easy it was to get that material off of Amazon and then Yahoo as well, and that's frightening and startling. It's one thing to make a (relatively side-eye) industry that capitalizes off of the bodies of women rather one-sidedly, but it's another to do that with girls that are much younger. |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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I read the whole thread, and no one answered whether the State Department issues a human right report of the United States. Because if they want to talk prisons, they should start with the country with the biggest prison population on Earth, the one that promotes human rights violations ranging from long term solitary confinement (which the UN considers torture) to the coerced sterilization of women in California. From what I've read (which admitably isn't all that much) Japanese prisons are probably a paradise compared to American ones.
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YamiWheeler
Posts: 97 |
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That's absolutely right, but this isn't just an "American culture" issue. This is a document questioning the human rights inadequacies of other countries, and thus, why should anyone take advice from a nation that also has its own detestable human rights problems? You can draw the sentiment that the U.S. wants other countries to be more like the western world, but who's to say that's a good thing? Who's to say they have to change just because some self-righteous Americans are "disappointed" with their culture, whilst happily ignoring and wallowing in the faults of their own? Who's to say that's what their people want? What makes the U.S. such a beacon of moral superiority? It's like being told not to be promiscuous from a thief - who the fudge are you to judge? Does this report bring up points that need to be addressed, some of which desperately? Absolutely, but I hope the U.S. releases a report for itself that highlights everything that needs to be changed in America too. Otherwise, this is pointless. The world doesn't need to conform to a country that isn't interested in fixing its own problems as well, regardless of how many "disappointed" Americans there are. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Fictional or not, the large amount of sexually suggestive material involving tweens and teenagers means anime and manga will never again be mainstream in the United States. I daresay that modern anime and manga is downright embarrassing and I have to be careful to show people what they're like. And you show a bunch of 50-somethings a Hatsune Miku music video, and all that'll happen is them being confused as to why that skirt is so short.
Depends on the household. Since you're depicting a rather extreme scenario, I'll depict one on the flip side that is also very common in the United States: The home-schooled 12-year-old daughter who is not allowed to so much as leave the house or use a phone without her parents' permission and has severely restricted Internet that is to be used strictly for homework and research purposes, which the parents can and will do regular checks. She wears nothing more provocative than a T-shirt because her parents have complete control over her wardrobe. Curiosity about the outside world has long been hammered out of her if she ever had any to begin with. The parents have already looked for a future husband, a boy who was raised in a similar way. Any misbehavior is punished with increased study while under surveillance. That's another environment rather unique to the United States: While some parents are completely negligent, some others are so scared of potential immoral behavior or child predators that they will lock them inside of their homes.
And yet there are plenty of Americans who want prison life to be even more brutal. It can be difficult to see how it's like from the outside. It's a difficult situation, really. Are prisons supposed to keep criminals away from the public, or are they supposed to be for rehabilitation? The United States has quite the problem in its culture with kids admiring criminals, and they grow up to commit petty crime (and sometimes not-so-petty crime) and will resist rehabilitation all the way. Japan has a culture that strongly discourages crime of any sort, so you don't have that much, and what few criminals they have (not counting the Yakuza) tend to be relatively easy to convince to stop. Then again, perhaps it's a vicious cycle: Increased prison violence would lead to increased frustration at authority figures in general, and this increased frustration might be violently taken out on people who happen to be nearby. With the success of businesses like Homeboys Bakeries though, perhaps it's also American culture's reluctance to forgive people who have been to prison. They become severely disadvantaged when looking for work and have no real direction to go upon being set free. For way more of these guys than I expected, a little bit of positive validation goes a long way. |
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animefanworried
Posts: 126 |
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I think this report would have more weight if it talked honestly about America's human rights issues. I mean imagine if Iran told the US that they have a problem in how they handle religion; would the US be receptive? Why should they? If you have no credibility on an issue you sound like a moralizing hypocrite no one wants to listen to. I'm not saying the US shouldn't say anything about other countries, but if they included themselves in this report and honestly looked at their own track record, it would give a standard and perspective that could lead to people actually taking the rest of the report seriously.
So? I'm okay with anime not being mainstream: We have access to every show as they air online and almost half of them are released and even dubbed. We don't need a big Hollywood-like push to get anime mainstream and have titles suddenly being censored to better "respect American culture". Also, why is America not approving of anime as it is somehow Japan's responsibility or even relevant? They're making animation for a specific fanbase of a specific country and if other countries happen to like it they can import it, otherwise, oh well... It's not like they owe America nor are Americans entitled to have anime fit their "tastes". Anime isn't embarrassing because you and some other people don't approve of what's depicted in it. In France anime has been semi-mainstream and still is because we have, as a society, achieve a level of sexual maturity that doesn't make us twist our panties whenever we see something "inappropriate" in fiction. Also, a lot of people in first world countries feel that what's embarrassing is America's handling of, or should I say inability to handle, sex. I could also mention that in a lot of countries (Like Japan), the extreme violence of American media (Video games, TV, movies...) is considered "embarrassing" as well and reflective of a culture of violence. I don't see Americans in a hurry to "rectify" that. Old people never understand what "youngsters" are into and they're always outraged things aren't like they were back in their day. Some old people can't handle a short a skirt! Who cares? Why should the prudishness of of an older generation be a "call to act" on what is essentially a non-problem? Anime is being made based on demand. As demand changes so does anime; as it should be. No law, no crusade nor any outside pressure should interfere with this natural process. As international audiences are becoming more important, shows with more "western appeal" are now being made. But shows that appeal to Otaku are there to stay because Otaku still buy anime and this is a business. I really don't see a problem. |
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YamiWheeler
Posts: 97 |
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Thank you for more eloquently stating what I was trying to say. +1 |
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YamiWheeler
Posts: 97 |
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Yes, it does indeed depend on the household, but I'm failing to see what part of his scenario is so extreme. Let's break it down: - I'm not sure if the 12-year old bit is an exaggeration, but popular fashion dictates risque clothing for tween and teenage girls (and also paints unrealistic expectations, but that's a different argument). - iTunes is a popular platform for downloading music, and a lot of popular music in the U.S. does in fact revolve around encouraging and glorifying promiscuity and drinking. That's a fact. - Weed and drinking among teenagers has always been popular and still is. - The internet is everything, and with Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Vine, and Twitter being so prevalent among youngsters, of course teenagers will want laptops and iPhones, the use of which can't always be restricted, esp. with the latter. - The Kardashians are popular and role models, as sad as it is, it's just a fact. Overall, there's very little extremes in his scenario, in my opinion. Yours, on the other hand, does very much seem to be on an extreme end of the spectrum. Not denying that there could be people like that out there, but I doubt it's anywhere near as common as the above, and even then, what percentage of those people defy their parents and do the above things in secret anyway? |
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Hellsoldier
 Posts: 753 Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol |
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Let me put it this way: LGBT are included in the Human Rights report, and Japan is not satisfying when it comes to how approaches its LGBT citizens, and yes, that is an issue. All we have to do is put ourselves in their place. With that said, theiir Family Law as a whole is a calamity that also infringes on parental rights, children's rights, foreigner's rights, etc. |
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Hameyadea
 Posts: 3679 |
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At the very least, one can look at that short statement with a bit of cynicism; worked for me.
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