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EP. REVIEW: And you thought there is never a girl online?


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manapear



Joined: 02 May 2014
Posts: 1535
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 4:57 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:

I don't see that it matters if it's virtual rather than physical sexual harassment; it's out of bounds and probably (depending on country) over the line into being illegal, especially for someone of Ako's age. And I didn't see anything which even remotely suggested that Hideki saw her as having been sullied.

It matters because of power dynamic and threat. Obviously, being harassed online can be very scary and gross. But that's just not the same as receiving what would be the same harassment in person.

As a woman online, if someone sends me a threat, I would be weirded out or unnerved, but unless they give proof that they could hurt me, I am not yet concerned for myself. Compare that to someone catcalling me or threatening me on the street, and I take that very seriously. (Because I could and may be in immediate, physical danger.)

I think it's important for shows that deal with these things to better portray the nuance and be careful about it, if it's going to be serious with it. Heck, even if it was portrayed comically, they should still avoid being disingenuous about it. If these things aren't better portrayed, we end up with confusion that we just saw in which you said you don't see the difference. i understand if you mean harassment is harassment, and that's true; but there's still a huge difference from being harassed online than in person. (Especially for female-identified people.)
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KonradW



Joined: 18 Jan 2016
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 8:31 am Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:

The show spent 7 episodes prior to this one reinforcing EXACTLY what you said, that Ako was having issues distinguishing between "Game" and "IRL". In that sense, it seems entirely reasonable to me that Hideki would at LEAST see someone doing something to Ako "in the game" as equivalent TO HER as doing it "IRL"

But don't you see that this is the exact opposite of where this show is supposed to be going? This hacking incident created a perfect opportunity for Ako to notice the difference between real life and games. And it just ends up pulling Russian closer to treating two worlds as interchangeable.

So much wasted potential. It's like the author is trying to extend the story by going one step forward and another one back.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:11 am Reply with quote
HaruhiToy wrote:
I'm willing to give him the benefit of any doubt. But he was getting preeeetty close to it here:

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy352/PLQMZY/AnimeShots/Rusian1_zps0s47utib.png

This seems to me like an awfully crass and cynical interpretation of what Hideki's saying. (Though I'll grant you that it's not like anime hasn't occasionally pulled stunts that warrant such cynicism about its motives. . . Rolling Eyes )

HeeroTX wrote:
(Also, altho everything was fine when he went to see her, I'll remind that he has already had her strip naked BECAUSE of their "game" relationship, and altho it turned out nothing happened, the hacker requested something similar)

This is what's commonly called "taking things completely out of context."

manapear wrote:
It matters because of power dynamic and threat. Obviously, being harassed online can be very scary and gross. But that's just not the same as receiving what would be the same harassment in person.

As a woman online, if someone sends me a threat, I would be weirded out or unnerved, but unless they give proof that they could hurt me, I am not yet concerned for myself. Compare that to someone catcalling me or threatening me on the street, and I take that very seriously. (Because I could and may be in immediate, physical danger.)

I think it's important for shows that deal with these things to better portray the nuance and be careful about it, if it's going to be serious with it. Heck, even if it was portrayed comically, they should still avoid being disingenuous about it. If these things aren't better portrayed, we end up with confusion that we just saw in which you said you don't see the difference. i understand if you mean harassment is harassment, and that's true; but there's still a huge difference from being harassed online than in person. (Especially for female-identified people.)

Fair enough. I can only speak from a male perspective, though, and I can empathize with Hideki quite a bit here; I think a situation like this would bother me every bit as much as it did Hideki, even if the person I saw as my girlfriend wasn't actually in danger.
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2478
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:32 pm Reply with quote
manapear wrote:
It matters because of power dynamic and threat. Obviously, being harassed online can be very scary and gross. But that's just not the same as receiving what would be the same harassment in person.

Isn't it effectively the same thing for Ako though, since she conflates the game with reality?

For a real person, then yes, I agree that there's a difference in seriousness, even if both are skeevy. But for Ako, game = real, as shown by her not understanding that an ingame relationship doesn't equal a real-life relationship.

Speaking of which, I really hope that gets addressed next arc. This would've been a prime lead-in to it, but nothing happened on that front besides "we're ingame married again, everything's kosher".
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HaruhiToy



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:43 pm Reply with quote
FilthyCasual wrote:
Isn't it effectively the same thing for Ako though, since she conflates the game with reality?

That's exactly the point. The raison d'être of the gaming club was to help Ako overcome that debility. The violation of her and Rusian's avatars should have been a great opportunity to help her see the difference and they mostly blew it.

Not completely, but Hideki went from "we aren't married anymore" (validating that the online relationship was equivalent to real life) to "now let's get married in the game all over again." (doing so again.) Sometimes it seems like they are trying to cure her addiction to cake by feeding her more and more cake.

The part I liked best was where Kyo pointed out that Ako knew Hideki much better than he was giving her credit for. They should have had more like that.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 3:48 pm Reply with quote
Ep 8 review wrote:
Fortunately, Ako actually does have a brain after all


Not sure if it was intentional, but that made me chuckle.
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manapear



Joined: 02 May 2014
Posts: 1535
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:

Fair enough. I can only speak from a male perspective, though, and I can empathize with Hideki quite a bit here; I think a situation like this would bother me every bit as much as it did Hideki, even if the person I saw as my girlfriend wasn't actually in danger.


That's understandable. And it's fine to be bothered by harassment either way, that's important. But online harassment shouldn't be treated to the same degree/scale as offline harassment, because one has stronger reprecussions.


FilthyCasual wrote:
Isn't it effectively the same thing for Ako though, since she conflates the game with reality?

For a real person, then yes, I agree that there's a difference in seriousness, even if both are skeevy. But for Ako, game = real, as shown by her not understanding that an ingame relationship doesn't equal a real-life relationship.


Sure, it is a problem for her as much, but that then leads into two different issues. I mean for one, if she as someone who conflates the two and treats her online harassment as serious as another girl's offline harassment, that's one problem. The other is like HaruhiToy mentions; her conflation of reality and the online world, and people flip-flopping in enabling her.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:15 pm Reply with quote
HaruhiToy wrote:
FilthyCasual wrote:
Isn't it effectively the same thing for Ako though, since she conflates the game with reality?

That's exactly the point. The raison d'être of the gaming club was to help Ako overcome that debility.

Let's be honest, for at least a couple of members, the "point" of the club is to play games on cool computers at school. I think the ACTUAL point for MOST of the members is:
-Master, have "real life" friends to hang out with, and play the game together
-Akane, play on a cool computer, secondarily "help" Ako
-Hideki, "help" Ako
-Ako, play the game with her friends

I really think the whole "help Ako identify reality" is mainly an EXCUSE that the others use to meddle in Hideki's life.
Quote:
The violation of her and Rusian's avatars should have been a great opportunity to help her see the difference and they mostly blew it.

I agree with this, but considering the show, I just take that failure in stride. I actually think the "bigger" failing is when Ako asked Hideki what they are if not "married" he just responds "friends" since HE tried to make them a real life couple previously. I totally grant that THAT was a failure on the part of characters/writing.
Key wrote:
This is what's commonly called "taking things completely out of context."
I'm just saying Hideki already had an experience/reason to believe that Ako may do something "problematic" based on her relationship with Rusian. I don't think its out of context for him to worry about (for example) Ako agreeing to send "naughty" webcam pics because "Rusian" asked her to. As I noted, "fake Rusian" DID ask, it just happened (because she's more lucid than he gave her credit for) that Ako did NOT do so, but I can totally understand why he would worry about otherwise.
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Gewürtztraminer



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 1028
Location: Texas - Its like whole other country.
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 10:13 pm Reply with quote
I really do not get the total handwave about a crime that has been committed.

Hacking someone and stealing things that have monetary value is a crime, and once again like so many crimes in anime, (some way worse, kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder) it is totally blown off as...

Not sure.
Not a pretty portrait of the Japanese judicial system.
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2963
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 11:39 pm Reply with quote
well, in most of the world cybercrime is still a wip regarding the judicial system.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 12:29 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
Let's be honest, for at least a couple of members, the "point" of the club is to play games on cool computers at school. I think the ACTUAL point for MOST of the members is:
-Master, have "real life" friends to hang out with, and play the game together
-Akane, play on a cool computer, secondarily "help" Ako
-Hideki, "help" Ako
-Ako, play the game with her friends

I really think the whole "help Ako identify reality" is mainly an EXCUSE that the others use to meddle in Hideki's life.

Yeah, this is something that I'm going to be taking a closer look at through the last third of the season.
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GarethXL





PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:59 pm Reply with quote
Gewürtztraminer wrote:
I really do not get the total handwave about a crime that has been committed.

Hacking someone and stealing things that have monetary value is a crime, and once again like so many crimes in anime, (some way worse, kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder) it is totally blown off as...

Not sure.
Not a pretty portrait of the Japanese judicial system.


if i remember correctly the GM did say that action would be taken for the hacking in a passing statement.

as for the whole ako thing, making her go cold turkey with their relationship is the worst thing they can do. worst case scenario ako could totally escape from reality due to the whole experience.
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2478
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:19 pm Reply with quote
That was a low-key, if fun, episode.

Schwein's tsunning even harder than before. I doubt that'll be relevant over the last few episodes, though.
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HaruhiToy



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 4118
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:55 pm Reply with quote
Ep 9 review wrote:
As demeaning as that sounds about Ako, there are plenty of full-fledged adults in this world who are total messes without a partner to help them, much less teenagers.

Take it from me that's cold comfort to anyone who has ended up taking on Hideki's role in that relationship.

Right now it is relatively easy because they are a) young, and b) she is biddable to Hideki because she wants to please him and c) they aren't actually living together yet. Unless she matures a lot he is going to end up hating her no matter how sexy she is. She actually might, but warning klaxons should be going off in his head right now but aren't.
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Melicans



Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 638
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:54 pm Reply with quote
I enjoyed this episode very much. Slice-of-life is a nice breath of air, and even though it was a fanservice heavy episode the fact that the only male was not privy to it made it a nice change of pace.

Ako may still be a handful, but rewatching the earlier episodes we can see that she has made improvements, even if she still considers game marriage to be equivalent in real life. I'm sure that those improvements will continue in the last few episodes, and presumably beyond in the source material.
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