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EP. REVIEW: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond Is Unbreakable


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Admiral Pizzaman



Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:34 am Reply with quote
From A to Z, I have a lot of fun Jojo has offered this year and I hope one day we will get Part 5.
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Ruddor



Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:40 am Reply with quote
Hyperdrve wrote:
And this was supposed to be the best JoJo? That's what a lot of people here said in the beginning but no way does this JoJo even compare to the previous three. The sense of imminent danger was severely lacking in comparison.

I'm pretty sure that was intentional. While I haven't read the other parts, I've gathered that each part has its own unique feel. While Part 3 was "Let's go on a road trip to kill DIO and punch everyone who gets in our way," Part 4 was more like "Hey remember that one summer when my older nephew came to town, a bunch of crazy stuff happened, and we took down a time traveling serial killer? That was fun." Every part is different and everyone is going to have different opinions on which part is the best.
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PenGirl



Joined: 17 Sep 2016
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:51 am Reply with quote
Ruddor wrote:

I'm pretty sure that was intentional. While I haven't read the other parts, I've gathered that each part has its own unique feel. While Part 3 was "Let's go on a road trip to kill DIO and punch everyone who gets in our way," Part 4 was more like "Hey remember that one summer when my older nephew came to town, a bunch of crazy stuff happened, and we took down a time traveling serial killer? That was fun." Every part is different and everyone is going to have different opinions on which part is the best.


I think so too, and that's why I'm so excited to see other parts, because Jojo probably will never go stale.

What I gathered also was: Part 3 was more about Good vs Evil usual Shounen flair, while Part 4 ask you the question "what if normal people received Stands"?

Part 4 antagonist aren't "Evil guys who just like serving the evil overlord", they are normal, petty people who gained superpowers and now are using these super powers for their own, selfish reasons. That's why most end the series alive, because they are just weak minded people who just happens to be gifted super powers.

Part 3 antagonists had no goal other than "serve Dio", while Part 4 antagonist has their own personal goal as individuals. It's a improviment to me.

This also makes, to me, Kira more appealing than Dio. Kira is probably the best written character among Heroes and Villains in all Jojo so far. He is SO complex and has multiple layers in his character that surprised me to the very end. He is a fantastic villain. Dio was just your usual Shounen bad guy, while Kira is much more detailed and complex, almost Shakespearean.

I wonder how future parts will be able to top him with their main villains. I'm very excited for Part 5. The author of the series keep improving, and I'm curious to see his evolution even more.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5887
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:42 pm Reply with quote
PenGirl wrote:
Part 3 was more about Good vs Evil usual Shounen flair, while Part 4 ask you the question "what if normal people received Stands"?


Most of the cast of part 3 were normal people though.


PenGirl wrote:
Part 3 antagonists had no goal other than "serve Dio",


Actually it's shown on a few occasions that some of them worked for Dio because Dio promised them wealth if they killed the Joestars.


PenGirl wrote:
This also makes, to me, Kira more appealing than Dio. Kira is probably the best written character among Heroes and Villains in all Jojo so far. He is SO complex


There's nothing complex about a guy who kills women because he wants to take their severed hands. And then wonders why after the fact shit keeps going bad for him.
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PenGirl



Joined: 17 Sep 2016
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:07 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Most of the cast of part 3 were normal people though.


Since when hired assassins and mercenaries are normal people?

BadNewsBlues wrote:
Actually it's shown on a few occasions that some of them worked for Dio because Dio promised them wealth if they killed the Joestars.


And? They're still serving DIO, you know. They are employes, they're getting paid, they're working for the bad guy, so their goal is work for the big guy.

BadNewsBlues wrote:
There's nothing complex about a guy who kills women because he wants to take their severed hands. And then wonders why after the fact shit keeps going bad for him.


It seems like you watched a different Diamond is Unbreakable than I did.

We saw SO MUCH of him and his character, how you can see he is not complex and his character is only about "taking hands and getting surprised by shit happening to him"? At best, this is a TL;DR description. Would be like saying "Dio character is about screaming Wryyy and wanting to conquer the world".

Like, we saw his daily life in detail and even visited his house to turn him into a relatable villain, and not just the Final Boss that needs to be defeated. It appears you didn't saw his strange obsession with a collection of finger nails in a way to predict his luck, or his OCD and obcession in NEVER standing out (like reaching Third Place in all competitions he enters and standing in the less spotlight points of the photographs), or his difficulty in getting into Kosaku's life while POSSIBILY starting to get feelings for the wife of the man which the life he stole, or the fact he hates fighting, or the fact he is a Shounen villain that don't want to take over the world or gets more powerful, but just want's a quiet life, to live with his murderous ways without being bothered.

Hell, he even thinks what he do is NORMAL. I remember he saying "I just want to live quietly, but is my nature to kill. But I will be happy doing that". It blows my mind how much real his character feels. He seems like a TRUE serial killer to me. Down even to stupid mistakes that Serial Killers usually commit and get caught.

That's why he is so complex. He is not there to serve as a goal, he is there to be a character within a world, a universe, and be a effective part of it.

Not saying I dislike Kars and DIO, I like DIO a lot, and Kars was average, but Kira is more well written than them, without a doubt.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5887
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:56 pm Reply with quote
PenGirl wrote:
Since when hired assassins and mercenaries are normal people?


Well aside from the fact that they're not very good mercenaries or assassins.

Chaka and Khan for example? ordinary unassuming farmboy and barber. Until they both get ahold of Anubis

PenGirl wrote:
And? They're still serving DIO, you know. They are employes,


They're hired hands working for a guy promising them whatever their heart desires. Which is a fairly normal process.

PenGirl wrote:
they're getting paid,


To fail? .

PenGirl wrote:
they're working for the bad guy, so their goal is work for the big guy.


Their goal as you just mentioned is to make money (for some of them) the others had other unexplained reasons for working for Dio.

PenGirl wrote:
It seems like you watched a different Diamond is Unbreakable than I did.


No I watched a guy who was was established of the main villain of DiU out of the blue because Araki couldn't figure out what to do with the 2nd half of the story.


PenGirl wrote:
We saw SO MUCH of him and his character,


We saw his habits (some of which were never properly explained and help lead to his getting exposed), Him stupidly divulge his identity to a middle schooler who didn't ask for it which nearly wound up biting him in the ass completely, And him get killed off in such an undignified and cathartic manner.

PenGirl wrote:
how you can see he is not complex


Because he's really not the only thing people like about Yoshikage is his design, his stand, and his his rather silly dream of living a peaceful quiet life where he can kill young women in cold blood in take their hands (just cause). His alleged complexity isn't among the reasons people like him.


PenGirl wrote:
Would be like saying "Dio character is about screaming Wryyy and wanting to conquer the world".


Dio's sole motivation after discovering the power of the Stone mask is to conquer the world though. Araki didn't really go in for complex villains in the first four arcs of JoJo.


PenGirl wrote:
and even visited his house to turn him into a relatable villain,


There's not a whole of anything relatable to a guy who murders women for the most bizarre and disgusting of reasons and also saves fingernail clippings

PenGirl wrote:
and not just the Final Boss that needs to be defeated. It appears you didn't saw his strange obsession with a collection of finger nails in a way to predict his luck, or his OCD and obcession


None of those things make him complex it makes him strange and unusual.

PenGirl wrote:
That's why he is so complex. He is not there to serve as a goal,


If he's not there to serve as a goal Josuke and the others wouldn't have spent the remainder of DiU trying to bring him to justice.
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PenGirl



Joined: 17 Sep 2016
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:25 pm Reply with quote
I'm not being rude or anything, but, could you please not butcher the post and answer each segment as a whole and not in parts? It makes really hard to answer when people break sentences of my posts and scatter their answers around.

But I will TRY to answer your answers as a whole, but only this time, because I enjoy talking about it.

If they are good or bad, that's not really the point. My point is that they aren't your everyday people you meet while walking around the street. What I liked about Part 4 is that it happens to common people in a common town, that's why I liked it. In previous parts, the background didn't had much importance other than being an exotic place to be. While was fun exploring new cultures and places, I think, for me, a single place getting the focus has more power for the characters and setting

Enemies you defeat don't vanish in tin air, they stay around the cast.

And even if you disliked, do you really wanted to see Stardust Crusaders 2.0? I ask this to people a lot who complaint that Part 4 is too different from Part 3. I commend the author for not growing confortable with what he has and try new ways to tell a Jojo story.If worked for some people or not, that doesn't matter. We are 4 parts in, it's obvious each part are supposed to be different.


About Kira, I believe you are mistaking "relatable" with "Sympathetic". Kira is relatable because we see his everyday life we see that what he want isn't so far of what we want, murder aside. He is someone that enjoy a calm day, a walk in the park, a good picnic, enjoy his time overall. He is a MONSTER in every level, but that makes him NOT a sympathetic villain. But his "common goals" and lifestyle makes him a relatable villain.

There is a video I found that explains what makes a villain a good, and I think I should share with you. It explains way better than I ever could why I find KIra to be complex and my favorite Villain so far in Jojo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqMxH0atn18


I'm a Anime Watcher, I watched up to Part 4, so, SO FAR, Kira is my favorite. Maybe this changes, maybe DIO gets revived and gets even better than he was, maybe a new villain appear and I find way better than Kira. But so far, Part 4 is my favorite part with my favorite villain, followed close by Part 2 and DIO.

But, anyway, I think I find weird how I need to justify a preference of mine to you. If I find Part 4 better written, better paced, and with better characters and villains than Part 3, what's wrong with that? Each Jojo part is different enough to suit someone tastes what not suiting others.
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Revolutionary



Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 601
Location: Too Far South
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:46 pm Reply with quote
In general I agree with you, PenGirl. I think Part 4 worked better than Part 3 in many ways.

However, I never saw Kira as 'relateable' on any level. He's a complete and total creep and murderer. Easily the most disturbing anime villain I have ever seen. His "I just want a peaceful life" shtick seemed to be more a play on how everything he did oultandishly contradicted what he wanted.

In the end I can't tell exactly what the author was going for with Kira, whether it was supposed to be some kind of strange humor, or something else. It's Jojo. And I'm not the best person to talk to about these kinds of things. >.<
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PenGirl



Joined: 17 Sep 2016
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Revolutionary wrote:
In general I agree with you, PenGirl. I think Part 4 worked better than Part 3 in many ways.

However, I never saw Kira as 'relateable' on any level. He's a complete and total creep and murderer. Easily the most disturbing anime villain I have ever seen. His "I just want a peaceful life" shtick seemed to be more a play on how everything he did oultandishly contradicted what he wanted.

In the end I can't tell exactly what the author was going for with Kira, whether it was supposed to be some kind of strange humor, or something else. It's Jojo. And I'm not the best person to talk to about these kinds of things. >.<


I kinda felt sorry for Kira at some momments, to be honest.

I know he is a brutal Serial Killer, but I dunno. There are momments I was relling for him. The episode he fight the cat plant was one of them. It was ambigous if he REALLY cared about Shinobu, but I strong believe that Kira had a bit of humanity inside him. For me he was kinda a person who needs help for being mentaly sick.

Although, he got what he deserved.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5887
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:44 pm Reply with quote
PenGirl wrote:
I'm not being rude or anything, but, could you please not butcher the post and answer each segment as a whole and not in parts?


Sorry it's kind of a habit from what I normally do in other places.

PenGirl wrote:
Enemies you defeat don't vanish in tin air, they stay around the cast.


This is kind of recurring element with the JoJo series.....and kind of one the worst aspects within part 4 especially where Yukako and Rohan are concerned. As for each part needing to feel different not too many people disagree on that, but at the same time 4 is among the most divisive parts of the series. In large part because Araki tried to be a bit too different with regards to it's main villain and overarching plot.


PenGirl wrote:
About Kira, I believe you are mistaking "relatable" with "Sympathetic". Kira is relatable because we see his everyday life we see that what he want isn't so far of what we want,


I want a nice quiet life too but I don't believe that in order to obtain that I should go around murdering people and carrying their remains around like it's normal behavior.

PenGirl wrote:
murder aside. He is someone that enjoy a calm day, a walk in the park, a good picnic, enjoy his time overall.


As we see even after he takes over the identity of Hayato's father he can't enjoy any of those things without getting the urge to kill.


PenGirl wrote:
But, anyway, I think I find weird how I need to justify a preference of mine to you. If I find Part 4 better written, better paced, and with better characters and villains than Part 3, what's wrong with that?


Nothing but you seem to be taking people disagreeing with you or pointing out certain things with a degree of incredulousness.
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PenGirl



Joined: 17 Sep 2016
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:42 pm Reply with quote
Nha, I wasn't doing that. I was just argumenting my point of view. And I don't see it as divise as you say, at least with my friends. They seem to have enjoyed it, and I heard it sold well.

Hopefully well enough for a Part 5 peharps? I dunno peoples opinions on Part 5.

But, just wrapping things up:

Maybe because I enjoy Persona series a lot I like Part 4 a lot.

Many people commented how much inspiration Persona took from Part 4 and such, specially Persona 4, so i came with really high hopes to this part, and I wasn't dissapointed.

Although I not going to lie I liked Dio's final battle a tid better than Part 4 final battle. Time Stop is still fascinating for combat, and I believe there isn't much room to write Kira's reverse time ability in a fight for the author to do that.
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YoodiHoshi



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:00 am Reply with quote
@NeverConvex
Hope you stick around for Part V. The consensus from what I've seen dictates that people who really like Part II also really like Part V, and DavidPro should certainly deliver on this one - considering its one of the most popular parts of JoJo in Japan
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