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The SPJA Needs to Change Its Youth Protection Policy


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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5821
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:10 am Reply with quote
@Caloris

Such a database as you described, if not illegal, would by its very nature raise the liability premiums significantly for any convention using them. You start blacklisting attendees, vendors, artists, and guests; and start promulgating that information across the United States you are guaranteed to be buried alive in lawsuits, and you will most likely lose every single one of them. Anime conventions are not investigatory bodies. They do not have the staff, means, or the time to do such things. They can kick you off the property for selling bootlegs or for causing obvious problems or troubles, but when you start making lists you are entering a whole new world. The main problem, except in extreme cases, is that there is no due process or evidence that would go along with those accusations that such a list would inherently represent.

Also, I don't buy the argument that no one knows what to do. Almost all children nowadays are born with a smart phone in hand and know how to dial 9-1-1. If teenagers don't know what to do at a convention, then they don't know what do on the streets of Baltimore or Los Angeles. That does matter, because there are tons of attendees in line outside of the convention center, tons of attendees showing off their cosplay outside, tons wandering around shopping, looking for food, hanging out around the Inner Harbor. (I am an Otakon goer). I have seen teenagers walking several street blocks, taking the train and buses to get to the convention center. Are we saying that they are somehow safer outside than inside? Or that they somehow become more helpless inside the convention center. If they are not mature enough to navigate through the outside world, why are they at a convention filled with hundreds or thousands of people. What happens to them, when they leave the convention center at night to go home or to their hotel, walking through the dark streets, riding the trains or buses. They seem to have no problem walking the back streets of Baltimore to find that 7-11 or to find a place to eat dinner that doesn't have a line from hell.

Yes, you are right there should be information about where to go, though I do believe at least the bigger conventions already do that. But common sense would tell you to go to registration or badge pickup, because there is usually staff there all the time. If I remember right Otakon also has an information desk too.

If you have to be coddled at a convention, then you shouldn't be there without your parents. Much less walking the streets of Los Angeles and Baltimore.
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M1Awesome



Joined: 20 May 2016
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:57 am Reply with quote
Mistrust. That is all this will bring to everyone at the expo. Just by proposing this policy the SPJA goes against what it stands for. The promotion of set culture. It does however raise the question if more undesired policies will appear in the future that will affect guests. Most people who attend are good common sense law-abiding people. I've been attending since 1997. This is a huge step in the wrong direction. These policies shift the blame, nothing more. Does nothing to actually prevent anything. If that was the case why not check all the staff at the hotels that represent the convention. 8 percent of all kinapped rapes and killings in America occur in a hotel/ motel. Parents, friends, and moral communites are responsible for all childrens safety and upbringing not a freedom stripping TSA policy. Take it from someone who has been attending conventions and guns shows in California from the early 90's. They all started with policies like these then turned into laws that literally crippled the buisness in this state. We need to wake up or we'll all lose this convention we love to attend.
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fryguy81



Joined: 02 Mar 2016
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:38 am Reply with quote
i forgot to talk about this before but in regards to Japanese artists. The mere hint of any impropriety and artists lose their jobs.

We saw that in 2015 when that Voice Actress was arrested for possession. Not even a day went past before she was let go from her agency and fired from any job she was currently working on.

No conviction, no guilty verdict, she was fired for the charge alone.

We can't judge Japanese artists for being insulted by being asked to submit to a background check. Because the request is an insult to them.

But why would you respect the Japanese culture when running an anime convention?
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Buzz201



Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 266
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:28 pm Reply with quote
fryguy81 wrote:
i forgot to talk about this before but in regards to Japanese artists. The mere hint of any impropriety and artists lose their jobs.

We saw that in 2015 when that Voice Actress was arrested for possession. Not even a day went past before she was let go from her agency and fired from any job she was currently working on.

No conviction, no guilty verdict, she was fired for the charge alone.

We can't judge Japanese artists for being insulted by being asked to submit to a background check. Because the request is an insult to them.

But why would you respect the Japanese culture when running an anime convention?


The Japanese police force is severely underfunded, they only really go after cases they're confident of winning. If you're arrested, there's a high chance you'll eventually get convicted. I'm not saying it's right, but you can see how the 'arrested=guilty' mindset develops...
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:39 pm Reply with quote
fryguy81 wrote:
We can't judge Japanese artists for being insulted by being asked to submit to a background check. Because the request is an insult to them.

But why would you respect the Japanese culture when running an anime convention?


And that, I feel, is a problem with Japanese culture, at least media culture that should be done away with, the lack of forgiveness and benefit of the doubt when it comes to these accusations. Of course, the Japanese news media are also much, much less likely to intrude upon a celebrity's life and dig up dirt, whereas the celebrity news agencies of the United States seek it out (and sometimes make things up). From what I've read in British tabloids, they do the same thing in the UK too.

Personally, I believe no one is above the law, no matter their status, particularly concerning violent crimes, controlled substances, and money. To allow celebrities to bypass searches and checks non-celebrities must undergo is a message to them that they don't have to follow the rules of normal society. Heck, you don't even need that to get celebrities to get drunk with power, like with Justin Bieber or Bill Cosby. The last thing we need is to make them feel even more empowered by letting them get away with things non-celebrities can't.

But this is more a problem with society than it is a problem with the entertainment business. Consumers, talent agencies, sometimes even the talent themselves buy into it.

(Now I wonder if this might be part of the reason there are so few Japanese-American actors in Hollywood, at least those born in Japan: They know about the vicious newshounds of the United States and don't want to be part of it. Whereas guys like George Takei grew up in the United States and is used to it.)
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:45 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Because child abductions keep happening in this country.
And a vast majority of those abductions (it's no coincidence that child abductions, often committed by noncustodial parents, increased after divorce laws were loosened in the 70s), as well as sexual assault/abuse of children in general, are carried out by adults known to the children -- relatives, family friends, teachers, coaches, clergy, etc. Heck, I'd hazard a guess that kids are statistically safer at anime conventions than they are at a family reunion with Uncle BadTouch after a six-pack or two.
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fryguy81



Joined: 02 Mar 2016
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:00 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
fryguy81 wrote:
We can't judge Japanese artists for being insulted by being asked to submit to a background check. Because the request is an insult to them.

But why would you respect the Japanese culture when running an anime convention?


And that, I feel, is a problem with Japanese culture, at least media culture that should be done away with, the lack of forgiveness and benefit of the doubt when it comes to these accusations. Of course, the Japanese news media are also much, much less likely to intrude upon a celebrity's life and dig up dirt, whereas the celebrity news agencies of the United States seek it out (and sometimes make things up). From what I've read in British tabloids, they do the same thing in the UK too.

Personally, I believe no one is above the law, no matter their status, particularly concerning violent crimes, controlled substances, and money. To allow celebrities to bypass searches and checks non-celebrities must undergo is a message to them that they don't have to follow the rules of normal society. Heck, you don't even need that to get celebrities to get drunk with power, like with Justin Bieber or Bill Cosby. The last thing we need is to make them feel even more empowered by letting them get away with things non-celebrities can't.


No the message they'll get is to not bother dealing with American conventions if they're going to demand a check into your privacy (Japanese people are very private, there are things you do not ask) and treat you as if you're a criminal.

You're looking at this from an American standpoint where American celebrities are shitheels at best and outright horrible pieces of shit at worst. Japanese idols, celebrities, actors, etc. They are held to a high standard and they know they have to tow that line or they will find themselves black listed and out of work.

I wonder what would happen if it was revealed they had submitted to a background check. Japanese media doesn't hound but if they smell scandal they will pounce like any form of news (look at Kanichi Kurita's situation with his now ex-wife back when they were going through a messy patch. It was all over Japanese news).

Besides, I don't know any celebrity that would concede to this in order to go to a convention. Believe me, SDCC enacted this policy celebrity attendance would dry up overnight.

Again, AX wants to run background checks on their own people; fine. But guests and vendors should be exempt because, frankly, they aren't the problem to begin with.


I'll be interested to see what this does to AX in the future.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:17 pm Reply with quote
fryguy81 wrote:
No the message they'll get is to not bother dealing with American conventions if they're going to demand a check into your privacy (Japanese people are very private, there are things you do not ask) and treat you as if you're a criminal.

You're looking at this from an American standpoint where American celebrities are shitheels at best and outright horrible pieces of shit at worst. Japanese idols, celebrities, actors, etc. They are held to a high standard and they know they have to tow that line or they will find themselves black listed and out of work.

Again, AX wants to run background checks on their own people; fine. But guests and vendors should be exempt because, frankly, they aren't the problem to begin with.

I'll be interested to see what this does to AX in the future.


Well, if they don't want to go to American conventions anymore, so be it. Sounds awfully whiny and petty to me. If they're willing to give up a decent chunk of their overseas appeal just because of this, there are plenty of domestic guests who will be willing to have background checks who can take their place. (And I still say nobody should be exempt. Nobody. If anything, I'd say attendees should have background checks too, to keep things fair, provided the cost is feasible.)

But again, I'd say the problem is the culture itself. It seems to be a culture of non-intrusion but at the same time nonforgiveness. The former allows the few bad eggs there are to get away with it for too long; the latter brings unncessary shame and creates an illusion of purity. Personally, both breed dishonesty, and it's why I despise those aspects of Japanese celebrity culture.
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fryguy81



Joined: 02 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 4:44 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
fryguy81 wrote:
No the message they'll get is to not bother dealing with American conventions if they're going to demand a check into your privacy (Japanese people are very private, there are things you do not ask) and treat you as if you're a criminal.

You're looking at this from an American standpoint where American celebrities are shitheels at best and outright horrible pieces of shit at worst. Japanese idols, celebrities, actors, etc. They are held to a high standard and they know they have to tow that line or they will find themselves black listed and out of work.

Again, AX wants to run background checks on their own people; fine. But guests and vendors should be exempt because, frankly, they aren't the problem to begin with.

I'll be interested to see what this does to AX in the future.


Well, if they don't want to go to American conventions anymore, so be it. Sounds awfully whiny and petty to me. If they're willing to give up a decent chunk of their overseas appeal just because of this, there are plenty of domestic guests who will be willing to have background checks who can take their place. (And I still say nobody should be exempt. Nobody. If anything, I'd say attendees should have background checks too, to keep things fair, provided the cost is feasible.)

But again, I'd say the problem is the culture itself. It seems to be a culture of non-intrusion but at the same time nonforgiveness. The former allows the few bad eggs there are to get away with it for too long; the latter brings unncessary shame and creates an illusion of purity. Personally, both breed dishonesty, and it's why I despise those aspects of Japanese celebrity culture.


Interesting.
Although requiring a background check on everyone would be a violation of the fourth amendment and people's right to privacy.
A background check for a job is one thing, in order to attend a public event is another. But that would of course be for a court to decide.

Needless to say, you have a rather extreme view on security. Although so do I just on the other side of that spectrum.
The affect this will have on AX going forward will be an interesting situation.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 6773
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 4:56 pm Reply with quote
It seems that Anime Expo has amended their policy. Background checks for alley artists, exhibitors, press, guests, performers and vendors are now optional.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4796
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 5:55 pm Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
It seems that Anime Expo has amended their policy. Background checks for alley artists, exhibitors, press, guests, performers and vendors are now optional.


Seeing as they offered those who bought tables for the artist alley refunds when the rule was announced, I think very few of those artists affected have their spots anymore. It's a real shame since I was hoping to see more international artists.
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Project.2501



Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 5:58 pm Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
It seems that Anime Expo has amended their policy. Background checks for alley artists, exhibitors, press, guests, performers and vendors are now optional.


Convenient that it's several days after the deadline that dealers, artists, and guests were given to sign the addendum. Now the question is what will be done to / for those who already signed?
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fryguy81



Joined: 02 Mar 2016
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 6:22 pm Reply with quote
Good Lupin Sansei! This entire thing is a lesson in how not to handle crap like this.just scrapped the bed and never stopped.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5821
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:05 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
(And I still say nobody should be exempt. Nobody. If anything, I'd say attendees should have background checks too, to keep things fair, provided the cost is feasible.)


The ticket prices for the bigger conventions are already extremely expensive, additional costs would not be feasible.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:41 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, that's why I specifically mentioned the cost. That'll always be a big factor in everything.

By the way, my stance is that either everybody gets a background check--attendees, guests, vendors, and staff alike--or nobody gets a background check. The reason is because if some people get one and others don't, and they find out, you're going to get people who complain, "That person didn't need a background check! Why do I need one?" which becomes very troublesome because that means they're going to fight until they day they die using justification that someone else didn't need one.

This is a headache I've had to deal with in every line of work I've been in, where some people get something while others don't. Someone from one group will invariably complain about the perceived advantages of the other group, and one of two things will happen: Either that someone will raise a big stink and we have to dedicate hours, days, or even weeks with them; or that person gets what they want and it causes a cascade as other people find out and step up to complain too. (This occurs even if there are definite criteria separating the groups. They don't care, they want the privileges.)
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