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Jariten wrote:

However, if vendors - the people who actually pay for space at a convention and help fund the use of convention centers and hotels - have issue with a policy? That's a direct threat to an event's bottom line.

Not really. Well, not unless you're GoodSmile, Aniplex, Funimation or any other big industry name. Those booths bring in serious cash OR they're receiving kickbacks from the convention, often in the form of free booth space, to appear. It's well known that big companies like GoodSmile are not only given free space, but often other kickbacks from the convention for the business they and their "limited edition" figures bring in.

But if you're a mom & pop type anime store, no, you're not as irreplaceable as you're making it seem. The $1000 (plus $50/industry badge) you're paying for a small booth space can easily be replaced by 3 VIP attendees shelling out $350/each. Most attendees are not attending conventions solely because they want to buy anime and manga tchotchkes. They're there to cosplay, take pictures of other cosplayers, hang out with friends and, to a lesser degree, there for a particular guest of honor. Most people that I know of, if they do buy anime merchandise, will check out something at a convention and then order it on a handful of anime merchandise sites or off Yahoo Japan.

TL;DR - If a handful of small-time anime stores refuse to show up because of the new policy, attendees will not boycott the event for your sake.

I honestly don't understand this "Protect the children!" security mindset that gets angrier and crazier every year. We need common sense, not bizarre "security" measures, to prevent what let's just lump together as "bad things."

MidoriUma wrote:

Ami Love wrote:

It applies because if the flag on report prevents you from buying a gun, it means you've been flagged as a threat to others and there is no way a convention organizer would let anyone work a convention who has been flagged a threat even if it is a lie. There's also the story from several years ago of an anime fan who got a bunch of packages from Japan, the post office decided to inspect one package and found magna that had questionable images and he was charged even though he never had pictures of real children or harmed any child. That would show up on a background check. A college guy was conned by a girl to travel out of state to have sex and he didn't know she wasn't as old as she said. There's lots that can get you flagged in a check even though you aren't a threat. Since we aren't in charge of the screening, we can't be sure what would prevent someone from working the con.

They spell out very clearly that the only things they're denying people for are convictions for crimes against children and sexual crimes. Again, if it turns out they do something different, that's another issue.

If the guy in your anecdote was CONVICTED of the crime, then AX is well within its rights to decline his attendance at the con. Same for the guy who's fuzzy on the whole age of consent thing. There are children and other vulnerable persons at the con, and any attempt (however imperfect) to keep people with shady intentions out of positions of real or perceived authority should be considered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Handley
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-02-11/christopher-handley-sentenced-to-6-months-for-obscene-manga

So you're basically saying an interest in a certain part of the anime world should be a disqualifying offense from attending a convention? That's terrible.

HeeroTX wrote:

MidoriUma wrote:

Cost: You don't need to pay ANYTHING; you just need to sign a document saying you did a background check. They're not going to follow it up any further.
...
Insulting: Meh, maybe, but I'd argue a child being kidnapped or raped is more insulting. You know what happened at Aki Con a couple years ago? Things like that are the reason these things are necessary.

How do you reconcile the disparity between these two points? Either there is a cost inherent in the enforcement and verification process (which may be "worth" it) OR there is no cost because there ISN'T any enforcement & verification (in which case, whether it is "necessary" is irrelevant because there's not REALLY anything being done)

If you want to argue that this is both valid and valuable, that's fine. But then one should be prepared to address the actual flaws along with extolling the merits rather than trying to hand-wave them away.

That was for vendors, which seem the only group who have to pay for them out of their own pocket. Since they would have done a background check before they hired their staff, they don't need to do it again and can just sign off.

The important people to do this with are people who have real and perceived authority, such as staff and event organizers. AX is paying for their background checks, so the signing off thing is irrelevant. Some guy sitting in a booth has no authority in the convention, he can't make some kid "come with him" or whatever. That's kind of the one stupid part of this, they're wasting time with vendors who do nothing but sit in a booth all day.

HeeroTX wrote:

EDIT: And is it just the video ad at the top right, or is there some other flash/shockwave garbage that keeps messing with my browser and really wrecking havok with trying to utilize the forums? (is there some malicious code in the site?)

Noscript is your friend, as are ad blockers.

MidoriUma wrote:

That was for vendors, which seem the only group who have to pay for them out of their own pocket. Since they would have done a background check before they hired their staff, they don't need to do it again and can just sign off.

If vendors do not need to do a background check, then WHY bother to require it. (there's already been 2 vendors that have noted they've gotten this demand, so clearly it is happening) And if you think vendors currently run background checks for their booth help, then you are hilariously incorrect. (you might be amazed how many NON-anime con employers actually run background checks) While I understand the reasoning for making this demand of convention volunteers, even THAT is going to have seriously delitrious effects. (you'd be surprised how few people ENJOY giving up their free time to help chaperone a bunch of kids that want to: cosplay, take pictures and hang out with their friends.

fryguy81 wrote:

it's just not a government directive if it's not burdensome, costly, and (entirely) ineffective.

I feel bad for Anime Expo. Stuck in a bureaucratic purgatory waiting for a harmful piece of policy to be reassessed.

But this policy on the description alone sounds like a nothing piece of work. How many people who are their to work (in one capacity or another) are the ones even doing these assaults? Probably close to none.

If they're not dealing with the attendees then this policy is entirely aimed in the wrong direction.

sadly LA's con is the one to suffer from it.

you shouldnt be surprised by this. this is an election year after all and its more or less a political ploy by some. dont be surprised if some of those SPJA bigwigs are all conservatives.

one.night.bkk wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Handley
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-02-11/christopher-handley-sentenced-to-6-months-for-obscene-manga

So you're basically saying an interest in a certain part of the anime world should be a disqualifying offense from attending a convention? That's terrible.

Apparently the pictures in question were so bad, the guy's own lawyer told him to plead guilty.

And to answer your question, yes, there is a certain point at which you need to say that someone with an interest in graphic sexual images of children, even if they're a drawing and not real life, is more of a liability than they're willing to accept.

Keep in mind that this would not ban him from ATTENDING the convention (unless he has restrictions as part of a court order), it merely prevents him from being STAFF at the convention.

Buzz201 wrote:

In the UK, the equivalent check (a DBS check), will respond with a report as to exactly what the flag on the person is. So that the leader can then use discretion to work out whether it's appropriate for the person to work at the event or not. Is this not the case in the US?

Then again, DBS checks only cover involvements with the Police, so you wouldn't be flagged for a trip to Cuba or anything weird like that.

Speaking of DBS checks this does make me wonder how this is implemented at the larger more industry driven Expos like MCM, Hyper Japan and Showmasters events like London Film and Comic Con. I know some of the people on some of the smaller, fan run events and I know the cost of DBS checks combined with insurance costs is one of reason many of them are 18+ only events (which you need to show ID to get into). But some other smaller cons of a fan run nature don't run to these rules at all, and are all ages so I still wonder.

ResistNormal wrote:

If you don't like German quotes here's one closer to home.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

You are aware that Benjamin Franklin wasn't talking about the right to privacy, he was arguing in favor of taxing wealthy landowners in order to pay for federal defense spending, right?

http://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century

ResistNormal wrote:

The people who brought guns Pokemon Championships bragged about online and where arrested n the garage before ever reaching the convention, the Security did nothing. It's great that some people feel safe but they are not, as a result of the security check points people end up in long line queues outside the secured area creating a massive pool of soft targets where if attacked the casualties would already be extremely high. The check point makes you extremely unsafe. You cannot effectively search that many people in cosplay it's pointless. If people what to feel super safe, stay home and wrap up in bubble-rap.

Just because a security method isn't perfect doesn't mean that a private event shouldn't provide any security. The cosplay just makes ir more important to check people for weapons. I heard NYCC confiscated a lot of cosplay pieces that violated its weapons policy last year, and I'm glad they did. NYCC is crowded and confusing enough without armed idiots poking you with dangerous "toys"

BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:

ResistNormal wrote:

If you don't like German quotes here's one closer to home.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

You are aware that Benjamin Franklin wasn't talking about the right to privacy, he was arguing in favor of taxing wealthy landowners in order to pay for federal defense spending, right?

http://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century

Ah but the bill of rights does guarantee a right to privacy.

From the government, perhaps, but not from a private party if they decide that's the price of admission to their private event.

seems to be getting worse than the security parade at Anime Boston.

Also aren't there plenty of non-cosplay guests that would like complete anon-status? For some it is part of their identity.

Not a fan of these checks, any way you slice it. If someone is young enough to be taken advantage of, they should have a Guardian. Shouldn't a guardian be with their charge at all times? All this extra cost and damage to a con, that actually doesn't have any teeth when it comes to protecting people.

MidoriUma wrote:

It's unlikely that anyone shares your full name, date of birth, social security number, and previous addresses. Presumably AX will use one of the more competent companies; if not then that's another issue entirely.

I share the same name and birth date of a repeated convicted criminal. I have been stopped by the Border Patrol because of it (I did get to leave/come back). My parents were hit up for bond money the last time he got arrested (not a fun morning to wake up to). I fully expect that I'll know the next time he gets arrested because I'll have another detention by the Border Patrol.

Things would get much worse if I ever change my middle name, and probably if I ever move to Florida (or if he ever decides to move to any of the states I've lived in). It's actually surprisingly easy to guess social security numbers, and your address is pretty much public information (a quick google search confirms that both my current address and where I grew up are matched to me, although I'm not sure those records are linked).

You don't need to share full details for confusion to be a hassle.

H. Guderian wrote:

Not a fan of these checks, any way you slice it. If someone is young enough to be taken advantage of, they should have a Guardian. Shouldn't a guardian be with their charge at all times? All this extra cost and damage to a con, that actually doesn't have any teeth when it comes to protecting people.

This more than anything is why I hate this idea. Anime conventions should not be daycare for your tween children. Any parent who thinks an anime convention is a "safe space" to leave their child should be BLUNTLY disabused of that notion. I'm not saying anime conventions should not BE "safe", but they should not be viewed as a good place to leave children unsupervised.

Having your real name printed on a badge is definitely opening up people to stalking. I had an experience one time where a guy that knew my name but not what I looked like, stand outside the entrance/exit of a convention staring at people's badges looking for my name to be printed on the badge. Its not about relative people that are handling the registration and private information knowing my information. (Though these people should have their background checked if they are handling sensitive information).

I have worked at a booth for many years at different cons (3 different vendors total) and it was as a volunteer. Many vendors depend on volunteers to help them out in return for a badge, roomshare, and/or store credit depending on the vendor. Personally I get all 3 from helping out, I am not an employee of the company and I do not get wages. The owner would not have to do a background check on me because I was not 'hired'. If the vendor has to pay for background checks from their own pocket, they would offer less perks to volunteers, which means less volunteers, smaller booth and eventually not worth it for them. Frankly asking a vendor and their workers to get a background check is useless, we do not spend enough time to do anything with the attendees. For busy booths, we don't have time to chat with the customer other than the needful. If a booth's worker was a child molester, it would be so much easier to enter as an attendee and way more time to do their sins.

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