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The SPJA Needs to Change Its Youth Protection Policy


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Caloris



Joined: 03 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:41 am Reply with quote
I used to staff the largest anime con in Australia (Manifest) for a number of years before financial reasons killed it.
Manifest was in Melbourne, Victoria. Victoria has state laws requiring anyone working in a position where they would be interacting with minors to have a "Working with Children Check". This applies to anyone working within the state such as teachers, day care workers, hospital staff, youth group leaders/coordinators, etc. As Manifest had attendees under 18, and at times, staff and volunteers under 18, Manifest came under this law.

As such, all con staff were required to get the WWC Check. This was a background check done by a state government department. This check only applied to staff, not on day volunteers, not guests, not vendors, just staff.
Also, as staff were volunteers, they were not charged for the background check (People needing the check for paid work had to pay for it).

The only reason Manifest had to do this was because it was legally required to.

AX has just decided to do this themselves and it appears that nothing has prompted this to happen other then SPJA heads randomly deciding to. This is far more overreaching then it needs to be. They have surprised people with it at a late stage, after many of them have signed contracts (that very likely have no mention of it).
If this is not scaled back to something more reasonable and sane, they are going to have a hard time getting volunteers to help on the day, potential guests will decline/pull out, many artists and vendors won't return next year... It could potentially kill the convention.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:43 am Reply with quote
yoobinie wrote:
I'm honestly very disappointed that ANN published this article. In the past, ANN has delivered unbiased pieces (with the exception of things like reviews). However, this article clearly has a biased tilt and expects people to adopt the writer's opinion, leading to readers petitioning against this policy in favor of the writer's opinion. As a news site, this article should have been written without bias, explaining the full scope of the situation instead of simply providing the "negative outcomes".
We've been publishing op-ed pieces since 1998. Many of the most reputable news organizations in the world regularly publish op-ed.

animenewsnetwork.com/editorial

Admittedly, we haven't published a real op/ed piece like this since January 2012, so it's understandable that you wouldn't be aware of our practice. But it's pretty strange that you aren't aware that news organizations publish the opinions of their editors in op/eds.

-t
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:04 am Reply with quote
Lemonchest wrote:
I can totally understand why respected manga artists would be offended if asked to do a background check. I mean, can you imagine if Cannes asked Woody Allen or Roman Polanski? Besmirching their names by merely suggesting such things.


Nah, their names have already been dragged through the mud when what they've done in the past was made public, and I'm sure they've already felt repeated rejection at major events. I wouldn't trust either of them, or Bill Cosby (or, to a lesser extent, Gilbert Gottfried), in light of what we now know they've done in the past.

ikillchicken wrote:
-I'll say one thing for sure: The idea that a background check is "insulting" is just downright silly. Sorry but it really is. Of all the points made in this article, this is the worst by a mile. At the end of the day it's just a precaution. It is in no way whatsoever a reflection of you as a person. Everyone has to do it and you're simply no exception. Absolutely nobody is saying you're a child molester or even that you're likely to be one in the slightest. If someone is actually insulted by this they need to get over themselves. As someone who used to work as a cashier, I dealt with this shit all the time. "How dare you check my bill to see if its counterfeit!? Are you implying I'm some kind of criminal!?" Come off it. It's not about you and acting like it is is really pretty egotistical.


Yeah, that's how I feel about background checks: Just another part of post-9/11 life. I was actually genuinely surprised to find out that I'm part of a minority here who undergoes a lot of background checks, as I thought everyone does that. You undergo a background check each time you apply for a job, each time you open a bank account, each time you start a credit card, each time you apply for a government program, each time you get a license for something (like a driver's license), each time you open a business, each time you want to get onboard an airplane, each time you get off an airplane, each time you enter another country, each time something happens where you'd receive insurance money (such as when you're injured or you get into a car accident), each time you buy a gun, and each time you make a big purchase (like a house or a car). I get checked for various things all the time. I was initially bothered by them, but then I spent several years as an adult and got used to them. Heck, I remember a local Hollywood Video rental store, when I was younger, required a current water or electricity bill to prove your identity if you wanted to get a membership card.

I never understood why some people get so infuriated when they're checked or their belongings are checked. They're not the only ones being checked. Everyone is. (I'm not bothered at all when I get my hundred-dollar bills checked to see if they're counterfeit. I've seen some cases where people have received counterfeit money as change before, and I'd be annoyed if I did too. But what that means now is that counterfeiters have scaled back on printing Benjamins and Ulysses and are now focusing on the Andrews, Alexanders, and even Abes.)

Tempest wrote:
Thing is, no one in Japan would dare check a customer's bill to see if it was counterfeit. To Japanese people (ie: Guests of Honor), this is extremely insulting, and their reaction to it is, "Do they think I'm a child molester?" Remember, in Japan, if the police question you, you are guilty in everyone's eyes. So if you have to undergo a background check, it means that your are a child molester (why else would they do a background check?).

Guess I should have explained the different way that Japanese people see these things. But I wanted to keep extraneous information out of the article.


Huh, is that true regarding Japan? No wonder some of them look so nervous when visiting the United States, and no wonder some of them feel so concerned. This is one of those things I should remember about Japanese culture, akin to them seeing tips as insults. I guess it's part of their idea about being as unintrusive as possible.

How do they detect counterfeit bills then? Do they check them when no one is watching? Is there not much of a counterfeiting problem in Japan? Or do they just let counterfeiters get away with everything?

Also, aren't they already throroughly checked, searched, and frisked when they come in from the airport?

Buzz201 wrote:
I completely understand why they're doing it, and it surprises me that it is seemingly unheard of in America. However, it seems to have been implemented in the most thoughtless way possible.

In the UK, the equivalent check (a DBS check), will respond with a report as to exactly what the flag on the person is. So that the leader can then use discretion to work out whether it's appropriate for the person to work at the event or not. Is this not the case in the US?

Then again, DBS checks only cover involvements with the Police, so you wouldn't be flagged for a trip to Cuba or anything weird like that.


Regarding bag checks and such, nah, it's everywhere around here. Our Barnes & Nobles bookstores have everyone leave their bags at the front as an anti-shoplifting measure, for instance. My high school installed metal detectors during my later years there and brings armed cops and metal detectors to every off-campus event. (And it works too--I knew someone who was expelled because he concealed a hunting knife in his jacket to a school party. And the cops, at one point, managed to apprehend a local drug boss's thugs who were to commit a hit on a student who owed a large amount of money to him.)

As for what background check companies do in the United States, it varies depending on the company. I don't know which one SPJA is using, but I've seen some do exactly as you describe where they report to their clients exactly what they find, and I've seen some just simply say certain people are not okay.

NottJim wrote:
Firstly, I'm kind of surprised that they are doing background checks for speakers. I would have thought this would be for people that are interacting with minors in an unsupervised situation (con staff, vendors, artists etc.)


Security guards too, actually. I mentioned it elsewhere, but I remember seeing a security guard harass a young woman, and she was clearly uncomfortable and frightened. I didn't know who to report to, as security is supposed to be the ones who intervene in situations like those.

HeeroTX wrote:
I was mainly wondering about vendor contracts, since those (presumably) have already been signed and paid. ie. unless this was spec'd out over a YEAR ago and put into the contracts given to vendors, it seems like they couldn't REALLY (legally) enact this until next year without risking breach of contract issues.


Because of how sudden this all is, I'll bet it's because someone from the government came in and told SPJA, "No, you cannot run these events until you have these background checks," and AX was first because it's the biggest one in Los Angeles. As for why it hasn't happened to the Comic-Con organization, I have no idea. Maybe it has, and they haven't said anything about it.

The fact is, however, that the Californian government is very different than your Texan government. Our government is a lot more, erm, interfering than yours. Part of it is because California culture is very sue-happy (and so you get these warning signs everywhere and on everything), and part of it is because the Californian business law is extremely strict (and there is an extremely large amount of them), to the point where California is a notoriously difficult place to have a business.

HeeroTX wrote:
I realize for the VAST majority of you guys its not worth the time, effort and expense to do so, but I really wonder if any vendor is going to fight that. I mean, I ASSUME SPJA has made every effort to cover their @$$ on that, but I don't get how it can be legal to dump a sudden change of terms with no possibility to have both parties walk away "harmlessly".


Yeah, I'm wondering about that. Such a thing would be illegal and go against the very concept of a contract, especially one that involves exchange of money in advance.

AbZeroNow wrote:
PAX East had the same experience. The MCCC was mandated by the Boston Police and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to do the metal detectors this year because of the near-mass shooting because of two not-so-nice-people from Iowa at the Pokemon Championships. The bag searches was because two dipshit terrorists blew up the Boston Marathon and really my friends feel safer because of the bag searches.

Anime Expo as far as can be told did not have any high-profile incidents like Boston had.


It may be a response, or at least related to, the terrorist shootout that happened in San Bernardino County (Redlands, I think?) November last year, which is so far California's deadliest terrorist attack.

Our local news (newspapers, TV news, and online news sources) went into great detail about the two people who did that. They took great pains to bypass any background checks, such as getting a friend with a clean record to get their firearms for them (as the FBI has had their eyes on these two for a while) and that friend getting a sham marriage in order to bring one of them over to the United States legally. It was later discovered that both of them subscribe to Inspire magazine, al-Qaeda's English-language publication that provides information about how to do terrorist attacks, and that they had been planning to kill all of their coworkers at least two years in advance.

Redlands is about an hour's drive from the Los Angeles Convention Center, but I know it got a lot of people feeling on edge immediately after the shooting.

MidoriUma wrote:
It's unlikely that anyone shares your full name, date of birth, social security number, and previous addresses. Presumably AX will use one of the more competent companies; if not then that's another issue entirely.


They've had a spotty record with security guards though. Over the last few years, I've never been to an AX event where there wasn't some problem caused by the guards.

one.night.bkk wrote:
I honestly don't understand this "Protect the children!" security mindset that gets angrier and crazier every year. We need common sense, not bizarre "security" measures, to prevent what let's just lump together as "bad things."


Because child abductions keep happening in this country. (But as I mentioned on the previous topic, the real people to blame are the parents who don't watch their children properly. And they will fight to their last breaths to not have to watch their children properly. Some of these parents I've met seem to spend more energy and money trying to fight those who insist they supervise their children than actually supervising their children.)

H. Guderian wrote:
Not a fan of these checks, any way you slice it. If someone is young enough to be taken advantage of, they should have a Guardian. Shouldn't a guardian be with their charge at all times?


They should. Doesn't mean they will.

AX is also an event popular with teenagers who want to find an excuse to get away from their parents for a few days in a row. I imagine they're the ones in greatest danger, but I don't really have any ideas on how to keep them safe without killing the fun for them.

HeeroTX wrote:
This more than anything is why I hate this idea. Anime conventions should not be daycare for your tween children. Any parent who thinks an anime convention is a "safe space" to leave their child should be BLUNTLY disabused of that notion. I'm not saying anime conventions should not BE "safe", but they should not be viewed as a good place to leave children unsupervised.


Neglectful parenting is one of the things that infuriates me more than most others, because I see it so very often and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

ikillchicken wrote:
This is such a weird argument to me. I mean, everyone is worried that this background check policy is going to kill the con. You know what would kill it much more effectively though? The need for constant parental supervision. I mean lets just follow this through to its logical conclusion. It's not safe to let your teenage kid go to AX unsupervised. That's what you're saying here. Right now, parents do this all the time because they don't realize this but what actually happens if and when they are "disabused of that notion" as you put it? At that point, any remotely responsible parent ought to do one of two things: A) Don't let your kid go to AX. B) Supervise your kid at AX at all times. Option A is terrible for the convention and applied universally would cost them most of their attendees. Sure, they'd still have older attendees but we all know teens are the lifeblood of cons these days. Option B is really no better though. Few if any parents are going to be willing to do this which just leads us back to option A. What's more though, no teenager is going to want to go under these conditions either.


In addition, there will be many parents who don't want to pay admission in. They're not going to enjoy it, and as far as they're concerned, that's a few days taken off of their own time while paying double price for admission. Parents want to get away from their kids just as much as kids want to get away from their parents.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:00 am Reply with quote
MidoriUma wrote:

Cost: You don't need to pay ANYTHING; you just need to sign a document saying you did a background check. They're not going to follow it up any further.


Someone at every vendor has to sign a paper saying "all our staff have undergone the appropriate background check." Same for all media (eg: ANN).

So you either spend hundreds, or thousands, on background checks, or you perjure yourself.

Quote:

Privacy: If they paid by credit card, they already gave the con their real name. If you want to use a pseudonym on your badge, so be it.
No one in industry buys their own ticket. None of us give AX a credit card number. Even if a small vendor uses a credit card, they only give one credit card for at least 3 tickets. The only people your answer would apply to are artist alley vendors.

Quote:
Although really, nobody goes to the dealer's room to stalk vendors. It's for buying merchandise and stuff.
Wrong. Many attendees do exactly this. Of course, there's no background check on them. It's rarely made public, but there have been many cases where industry & pro-cosplayers have been harassed, felt threatened, or actually been threatened. Police have been called on con-attendees for threatening industry, and those same attendees have shown up at other events, or even the same event under a false name (and AX's new rules do nothing to stop attendees from doing that).

Quote:
Good People will NOT fail the background check. They're specific about what sort of things get flagged... convictions for specific crimes are the only real thing that get you flagged. There is NOTHING about visiting various countries or changing your name.
Wrong. Do some research. All very well documented.


Last edited by Tempest on Tue May 17, 2016 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:08 am Reply with quote
MidoriUma wrote:
They spell out very clearly that the only things they're denying people for are convictions for crimes against children and sexual crimes.


SPJA Youth Protection Policy wrote:
Any reportable felony conviction (crimes punishable by confinement greater than one year) involving violence, sexual activity, or harm to children, including distributing alcohol or drugs to minors:


So, felony convictions from any of the following can make you inadmissable:
1) Violence
2) Sexual Activity
3) harm to children

The policy goes on:
Quote:
Any reportable lesser criminal conviction involving force or threat of force against a person
c. Any reportable lesser criminal conviction of a sexual nature or classified as a sex offense
including but not limited to ‘victimless’ crimes of a sexual nature such as prostitution,
pornography, indecent exposure, and crimes in which sexual relations is an element
d. Any reportable lesser criminal conviction involving cruelty to animals
.

That's a hell of a lot more than "the only things they're denying people for are convictions for crimes against children and sexual crimes."
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supercalafragilisticjoy



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 7:42 am Reply with quote
As someone who has lived in Japan a bit, I thought I'd chime in: I feel like the Japanese guests absolutely would get offended and turned off by the background check. Guests are supposed to be treated very very well and with a lot of respect. While it seems normal in the states, suspecting them of such a background would be insulting, especially when they were the ones that were invited.
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HeeroTX



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 9:14 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Huh, is that true regarding Japan? No wonder some of them look so nervous when visiting the United States, and no wonder some of them feel so concerned. This is one of those things I should remember about Japanese culture, akin to them seeing tips as insults. I guess it's part of their idea about being as unintrusive as possible.

How do they detect counterfeit bills then? Do they check them when no one is watching? Is there not much of a counterfeiting problem in Japan? Or do they just let counterfeiters get away with everything?

Also, aren't they already throroughly checked, searched, and frisked when they come in from the airport?

From my experience (I am not Japanese, but have travelled to Japan multiple times) there is a LOT that is just "assumed" to be so based on public trust. Just using myself as example, on one of my trips during mad-cow scares Japan was being very "restrictive" of meat products (including things like beef jerky), they were contraband and not to be brought into the country. There were big posters about it and what not. At customs, I was asked if I was bringing in contraband and said "no" (because I couldn't read the Japanese posters and didn't realize the issue with the meat products that I'd brought as gifts for friends). I was waved through and merrily went on my way. Later when a friend came to the US from Japan and took the same type of products back, they were confiscated. Considering that Japan is generally xenophobic, I can't imagine I was given the benefit of the doubt for being foreign, my understanding is he honestly reported what he had and it was seized. (this was "confirmed" by another friend noting I could maybe "smuggle" some to them later on a return trip)

My "joke" when travelling to and from Japan is that Japan makes travelling EASIER for their nationals while the US makes is HARDER for our own citizens. This is because (IMO) Japan loves its own citizens and hates foreigners. OTOH, the US loves foreign TOURISTS and hates it's own citizens. But long story short, there are DEFINITELY a fair number of things in Japan that work on the "honor system", there's plenty of stories about how if you leave something (like a laptop or even a wallet) sitting alone in a public place, your odds are pretty good for it to be there (or turned in to authorities) when you return rather than stolen, as would be the expectation here in America.

Isn't their tax collection for NHK even based on "self-reporting"?
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supercalafragilisticjoy



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 9:23 am Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:

Isn't their tax collection for NHK even based on "self-reporting"?


It is - though they have been known to incessantly knock on your door even if you don't actually have or use a TV to collect money.
But your items being safe from thieves is generally pretty accurate.
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ResistNormal



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:13 am Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:

But long story short, there are DEFINITELY a fair number of things in Japan that work on the "honor system", there's plenty of stories about how if you leave something (like a laptop or even a wallet) sitting alone in a public place, your odds are pretty good for it to be there (or turned in to authorities) when you return rather than stolen, as would be the expectation here in America.


My friend was in Japan and had his bag stolen with his laptop in it. It was moneys who did it though. Damn dirt apes, no honor at all. Very Happy
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HeeroTX



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:41 am Reply with quote
Serious question, how "reliable" or extensive would a background check be for foreigners? I assume a background check for AMERICANS would be pretty simple and straightforward, but it seems like it could be pretty complex for foreigners, and honestly I'm not entirely sure if (just to use Japan as example) they WOULD even give information for a random American request.
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Hoppy800



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:03 am Reply with quote
ResistNormal wrote:
HeeroTX wrote:

But long story short, there are DEFINITELY a fair number of things in Japan that work on the "honor system", there's plenty of stories about how if you leave something (like a laptop or even a wallet) sitting alone in a public place, your odds are pretty good for it to be there (or turned in to authorities) when you return rather than stolen, as would be the expectation here in America.


My friend was in Japan and had his bag stolen with his laptop in it. It was moneys who did it though. Damn dirt apes, no honor at all. Very Happy


Macacs stole your friend's stuff? Let me guess, it was near or at an onsen and/or at or near the monkey park. He shouldn't have left his laptop unattended or better yet in the hotel.
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Cptn_Taylor



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 12:10 pm Reply with quote
supercalafragilisticjoy wrote:
HeeroTX wrote:

Isn't their tax collection for NHK even based on "self-reporting"?


It is - though they have been known to incessantly knock on your door even if you don't actually have or use a TV to collect money.
But your items being safe from thieves is generally pretty accurate.



They're no different from any other TV collection agency in the world especially if the system is "honor" based. After many decades for instance Italy shifted from the Japanese system to a new system : everyone is guilty by default and has to pay the tv license fee. And you cannot evade it since it's billed as part of your electricity bill. So it's upon you to demonstrate to the State that you have no tv hence no need to pay the tax. Every single year. Rolling Eyes
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 1:26 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
From my experience (I am not Japanese, but have travelled to Japan multiple times) there is a LOT that is just "assumed" to be so based on public trust. Just using myself as example, on one of my trips during mad-cow scares Japan was being very "restrictive" of meat products (including things like beef jerky), they were contraband and not to be brought into the country. There were big posters about it and what not. At customs, I was asked if I was bringing in contraband and said "no" (because I couldn't read the Japanese posters and didn't realize the issue with the meat products that I'd brought as gifts for friends). I was waved through and merrily went on my way. Later when a friend came to the US from Japan and took the same type of products back, they were confiscated. Considering that Japan is generally xenophobic, I can't imagine I was given the benefit of the doubt for being foreign, my understanding is he honestly reported what he had and it was seized. (this was "confirmed" by another friend noting I could maybe "smuggle" some to them later on a return trip)


Huh, that's interesting. I'm not used to living a life that isn't full of background checks, searches, frisks, and all that. It's pretty clear that people trust each other a lot less in the United States, though it does make sense as the United States has long had a history of violence in all sorts of ways (but the one on most people's minds is terrorism, as terrorists try to be as covert as possible), whereas people in Japan, from its culture, seem to be a lot less prone to outbursts of violence. It must be something of a jarring experience for people who move from Japan to the United States for some time, like to go to college.

I actually feel safer when checks and searches are done to me, because I know they're being done to everyone. Even the idea of checks and searches being done is enough to scare off some people. I remember hearing on the radio an interview with a retired CIA agent who specialized in catching terrorists. He was asked why they're primarily targeting Europe now instead of North America; his response was that Europe as a whole is a lot less on guard and a lot less protected against terrorist attacks than the United States, Canada, or Mexico. In other words, they're easy targets, just like how a bicycle thief will try to look for a bicycle that's not locked or locked improperly.

That being said, I'll be coming as an attendee, and I'm certain if, on the very very slim chance a terrorist is going too, they'll most certainly be coming as an attendee too.
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 1:54 pm Reply with quote
Hey guys, New York Comic Con just announced a "fan verification registration" process. People hoping to purchase tickets to the con get about two weeks to complete a profile. Forty eight hours before tickets go on sale, you will receive an email with a proprietary link. Use that link to buy tickets through the NYCC website. You can then buy 1 ticket per person, per day. Tickets are not transferable, refundable, or resellable! Tickets are sold on a first come, first serve basis (months before any scheduling or guests are announced, I'd like to point out) This should be fun!

I'd also like to point out that San Diego Comic Con does random Identification checks at the con itself. Both cons use tickets with RFID chips containing your personal information.

Obviously, all these measures are (supposedly) in place to eliminate scalpers, not for "security", but I can't help making the connection to this article, since everyone on the boards have pointed out that attendees at AX don't need background checks or I.D. Yet. Welcome to the Orwellian future, folks!


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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 1:57 pm Reply with quote
Nah, it's most certainly because of a few bad people making it difficult for the rest of us.
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