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Peebs wrote:

Edit: Something occurred to me right now. Libre was watching for DMI's reaction and/or they read ANN. I'm all for both.

ANN reached out to Libre for a comment, and I'm sure there were *cough* some fans *cough* who were freaking out to Libre and their authors directly, so it was inevitable that Libre would get wind of the situation.

archyteckie08 wrote:

"Breach of contract" is a blanket term that can mean thing. I'm pretty sure there are no "innocent" sides in this party.

It's true that "breach of contract" could mean anything, but I think what's most disappointing is the manner and phrasing in which DMI made their announcement. It's difficult to give them the benefit of the doubt when they're acting so childish.

archyteckie08 wrote:

"Breach of contract" is a blanket term that can mean thing. I'm pretty sure there are no "innocent" sides in this party. For one, DMI could have been in "breach" by doing a kickstarter. Many license holders do not like using their properties in a Kickstarter.

I understand. In business there's no "innocent" side to any party involved, however the most both party can do is try to keep within the terms agreed upon. I also think DMI continuous use of KS as well as not generating reasonable profit and keeping books in stock are only a few of the things that could add to the "breached" in the contract since Libre mentioned the termination was a while ago. And, just by looking at the Libre titles list posted on June's Twitter, looks like Libre have been very patience with them as some titles are pretty old and most are hard to find in print since a few years ago.

As for many license holders don't like KS, but even customers do not like having to be make/force to participate in KS in order to purchase/secure a product, especially not from a well-known publisher that's suppose to provide an easy access to the products to the mass on their side of the market. When a publisher resorts to continuously using KS to "try to get manga into fan's hand", how is any license holder of popular titles like Libre going to take them seriously as business partners for mass marketing.

It's silly to say there's no innocent party involved in a breach of contract, especially this one since NONE OF YOU KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED.

Breach of contact occurs when one or multiple parties in a contact break the agreed-upon clauses of that contract. Since Libre claims breach and DMI doesn't, one could possibly assume that this breach is only on DMI's part, but again WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

But a claim that neither party is innocent is a claim with no support whatsoever and should not be made without proof to back it up.

Good for Libre! I hope for the fans' sake that they get their manga in a better publisher's hands.

archyteckie08, you are making a lot of assumptions about cultural miscommunication and Japanese dislike of Kickstarter. But other anime and manga localization companies have used Kickstarter to fund occasional releases without any issues. Digital Manga Publishing have been practically abusing Kickstarter, using it for almost every new print release, including very mainstream Tezuka titles, and almost every re-release, and barely making any title available outside of Kickstarter. You mentioned Antique Bakery. How long has that been out of print, even as Fumi Yoshinaga gains more fans as her newer titles are released by Viz and Vertical? It's not a "Japanese business practices vs. American business practices issue." Many American customers are just as sick of DMP's overuse of Kickstarter as any Japanese company might be. I kind of wish they would lose their exclusive rights to publish Tezuka manga, too. That being said, we don't know exactly what DMP's breach of contract was, and it may not have had anything to do with their use of Kickstarter.

I had no idea there was such ire against kickstarters... I'm really gunning for their Kodomo no Jikan kickstarter, though. I don't see what the big deal with this marketing practice is - you get the whole series at once PLUS exclusive goodies. What's not to love?

^Kickstarters to me are fine once in a while, for some odd property that might not otherwise get published. But I feel that a publishing house should have some money behind them that shows they will be able to 1-reprint the books for those who come into the series later and 2-can offer the books to those who want to just buy the books at a normal pace from their manga supplier. DMI has been doing neither. Everything is being offered through kickstarter with no other choice. It makes them seem like they're not viable in the long term so you also wonder if you should start a series. The whole thing is annoying.

sunflower wrote:

^Kickstarters to me are fine once in a while, for some odd property that might not otherwise get published. But I feel that a publishing house should have some money behind them that shows they will be able to 1-reprint the books for those who come into the series later and 2-can offer the books to those who want to just buy the books at a normal pace from their manga supplier. DMI has been doing neither. Everything is being offered through kickstarter with no other choice. It makes them seem like they're not viable in the long term so you also wonder if you should start a series. The whole thing is annoying.

Ah, I see what you mean. I guess from a collector perspective, if they don't reprint, then this is your chance to snag something limited, rare, and therefore highly desirable and maybe worth even more $$$ in the future?

^ Exactly! And what if you can't afford the whole series at once? What about people who mainly get their manga at Barnes & Noble, or their public library? Kickstarters vastly reduce the number of copies available, and make it nearly impossible for libraries to acquire them. This is fine for niche series that probably wouldn't be in mainstream bookstores or libraries anyway, but for all ages Tezuka titles (or even adult oriented ones like Barbra and swallowing the Earth), it cuts out a huge portion of the potential audience. And that's a damn shame.

Agent355 wrote:

^ Exactly! And what if you can't afford the whole series at once? What about people who mainly get their manga at Barnes & Noble, or their public library? Kickstarters vastly reduce the number of copies available, and make it nearly impossible for libraries to acquire them. This is fine for niche series that probably wouldn't be in mainstream bookstores or libraries anyway, but for all ages Tezuka titles (or even adult oriented ones like Barbra and swallowing the Earth), it cuts out a huge portion of the potential audience. And that's a damn shame.

I didn't even think about libraries. That's terrible- no Tezuka for the masses!

Basically anyone who isn't online and watching a site like ANN that will tell you about said Kickstarter is out of luck from the start. Sad

Thread_Alchemist wrote:

Utsuro no Hako wrote:

Good luck to DMI convincing anyone to license to them after that.

kiminobokuwa wrote:

And this is the EXACT reason why I don't buy digital manga.

Digital Manga is the name of the company, and like every other manga publisher, they release dead-tree and digital versions of their series. What happened here isn't peculiar to the digital format -- other publishers have lost rights to series halfway through, though not in such a humiliating way. If you purchased a digital copy from Amazon or B&N, you're going to be able to keep it and even redownload it if you ever have need to.

DMI allows digital buyers to download their purchase as a PDF but I don't think any of Libre's materials were available for digital purchase anyway. They tend to keep their most popular titles in physical format only. (This might just be coincidence though.)

The agreement was terminated some time ago under just cause due to a breach of contract, with DMI granted a sell-off period for any remaining stock. - Libre quote from article

I saw DMI sells old titles of Libre and other at Akadot that I knew the licenses were lapsed (because the said so themselves long ago as to why and they didn't want to pursue the work any longer) being sold at akadot.

I was surprise when I saw it, I guess they found a whole bunch of old stock and decided to sell it even when they don't have the rights anymore.

Peebs wrote:

International shipping is always so expensive. I used to buy yaoi from Amazon JP and the shipping was always more than the book. It was insane.

Yes, international shipping is expensive but have you bought anything from Akadot before? Their shipping is brutal which makes no sense now since they open an ebay shop that offer "free shipping" worldwide (The book prices there were marked up about $5.)

sunflower wrote:

[
I didn't even think about libraries. That's terrible- no Tezuka for the masses!

I'm always thinking about libraries. I'm kind of obsessed (I have cards for 5 different library systems in 2 different states). Most of my manga reading is via library. So even though I supported Unico and some other DMP Kickstarters (I even got Atomcat for free due to an error on their part, cute book), it makes me incredibly sad that none of those titles are available at libraries, especiallu the kid-friendly stuff. The libraries near me don't even take book donations, so I can't spread the love even if I wanted to. Sad

sunflower wrote:

^Kickstarters to me are fine once in a while, for some odd property that might not otherwise get published. But I feel that a publishing house should have some money behind them that shows they will be able to 1-reprint the books for those who come into the series later and 2-can offer the books to those who want to just buy the books at a normal pace from their manga supplier. DMI has been doing neither. Everything is being offered through kickstarter with no other choice. It makes them seem like they're not viable in the long term so you also wonder if you should start a series. The whole thing is annoying.

Heavily agree.

Hell, I can understand some Tezuka works necessitating a Kickstarter, but DMP even used Kickstarter to fund the release of a Yamatogawa book for their Project H line. He's one of their top-selling authors! His stuff is still on their top-selling lists for Project H, but they had to resort to a Kickstarter to release it!

Something really is weird at DMP.

jenthehen wrote:

I had no idea there was such ire against kickstarters... I'm really gunning for their Kodomo no Jikan kickstarter, though. I don't see what the big deal with this marketing practice is - you get the whole series at once PLUS exclusive goodies. What's not to love?

You might want to check your local law on child pornography, you might get away with only your books get confiscated or worst prison.

In some countries even written material (like with letters and words) can be categorized as child pornography as long as it involve children in sexually compromised situation.

p/s: how does it even allowed in KS?

tailwhip wrote:

jenthehen wrote:

I had no idea there was such ire against kickstarters... I'm really gunning for their Kodomo no Jikan kickstarter, though. I don't see what the big deal with this marketing practice is - you get the whole series at once PLUS exclusive goodies. What's not to love?

You might want to check your local law on child pornography, you might get away with only your books get confiscated or worst prison.

In some countries even written material (like with letters and words) can be categorized as child pornography as long as it involve children in sexually compromised situation.

p/s: how does it even allowed in KS?

??? This isn't even close to child porn. Jenthehen is in the US, where this manga is being primarily sold. Do you think if it were considered cp they could sell it?

tailwhip wrote:

jenthehen wrote:

I had no idea there was such ire against kickstarters... I'm really gunning for their Kodomo no Jikan kickstarter, though. I don't see what the big deal with this marketing practice is - you get the whole series at once PLUS exclusive goodies. What's not to love?

You might want to check your local law on child pornography, you might get away with only your books get confiscated or worst prison.

In some countries even written material (like with letters and words) can be categorized as child pornography as long as it involve children in sexually compromised situation.

p/s: how does it even allowed in KS?

I live in the US and I am an attorney. I'm not worried about it. You obviously haven't ever looked at KnJ, and are assuming from its (undeserved) bad reputation that it's something that it simply isn't. It contains some suggestive lolicon material that some people may find objectionable, but it is very far from violating any obscenity laws in the US. I can't speak to the laws in other countries, but it would be an extreme exaggeration to call it "child porn" in any context.

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