Forum - View topic

EP. REVIEW: Thunderbolt Fantasy

I am such a sucker for full-circle endings, and when that parasol came back to the Buddha, I applauded in delight. It really was a marvelous wrap, and it got top marks from me too.

Very surprised at the high praise for this final episode. Loved the series but this final episode was gravely disappointing to me. It had multiple deus ex machina moment that took a leap too far for me.

Very surprised at the high praise for this final episode. Loved the series but this final episode was gravely disappointing to me. It had multiple deus ex machina moment that took a leap too far for me. It felt like the writers had written themselves into a corner and thus gave the heroes a convenient power boost. It served to really belittle this demon god we'd heard so much about. I'm less impressed when a character takes down an ultimate evil when I've seen said ultimate evil do virtually nothing to prove its evilness. Maybe it's because I'm a screenwriter that I'm so critical of these errors but it really goes against what I believe to be good writing in the majority of cases.

Suffice to say, I still enjoyed the puppetry which is the real reason to watch this show in the end. It's just a shame because before this episode I also believed Urobuchi's writing was far for divisive and sharp than it needed to me to make the novelty hold up. It succumbed to a direction at the end that makes me fear next season could go off the rails but hey, I'll watch anyway. I've never seen anything quite like it.

I'd rate that final episode a C, with the series being a B+ (could have been an A- if it stuck the landing).

goatnuke wrote:

Very surprised at the high praise for this final episode. Loved the series but this final episode was gravely disappointing to me. It had multiple deus ex machina moment that took a leap too far for me. It felt like the writers had written themselves into a corner and thus gave the heroes a convenient power boost. It served to really belittle this demon god we'd heard so much about. I'm less impressed when a character takes down an ultimate evil when I've seen said ultimate evil do virtually nothing to prove its evilness. Maybe it's because I'm a screenwriter that I'm so critical of these errors but it really goes against what I believe to be good writing in the majority of cases. Suffice to say, I still enjoyed the puppetry which is the real reason to watch this show in the end. It's just a shame because before this episode I also believed Urobuchi's writing was far for divisive and sharp than it needed to me to make the novelty hold up. It succumbed to a direction at the end that makes me fear next season could go off the rails but hey, I'll watch anyway. I've never seen anything quite like it. I'd rate that final episode a C, with the series being a B+ (could have been an A- if it stuck the landing).

Which part of this is deus ex machina? It has been foreshadowed again and again that Shang is extremely strong, with the later ones even pushing for the idea that he's possibly the strongest out of the characters we know. It's pretty much intentional that we see hardly anything truly outstanding about Shang before the final episode, after all, one of the main aspect of his character is that he doesn't strive to standout. It fits his laid back personality and as we have found out, makes perfect sense with his backstory. Among all the flashy characters, many of whom either possess or a vast amount of fame or is obsessed with gaining some, it only makes him and his eventual reveal more appreciable.

Then there's Lin. He has somehow gained fame, but it wasn't intentional, and as a result he has a perfectly reasonable trump card up his sleeve. Considering his bold and fearless attitude and the types of people he dealed with, it'd be harder to imagine that he's not a skilled fighter.

Now, regarding the lack of evilness of the final boss. This is a creative medium, following a well-worn guildline is hardly going to make your work stands out. I see no reason why there is any need to directly shows how terrifying this thing is by having it destroys villages, when it's threat is shown indirectly in so many ways. Plus it's been done so many times, there's nothing remarkable about it, why waste time to focus on it and drag on the story? Especially for one that more or less seems to be a prologue.

Niello wrote:

goatnuke wrote: Very surprised at the high praise for this final episode. Loved the series but this final episode was gravely disappointing to me. It had multiple deus ex machina moment that took a leap too far for me. It felt like the writers had written themselves into a corner and thus gave the heroes a convenient power boost. It served to really belittle this demon god we'd heard so much about. I'm less impressed when a character takes down an ultimate evil when I've seen said ultimate evil do virtually nothing to prove its evilness. Maybe it's because I'm a screenwriter that I'm so critical of these errors but it really goes against what I believe to be good writing in the majority of cases. Suffice to say, I still enjoyed the puppetry which is the real reason to watch this show in the end. It's just a shame because before this episode I also believed Urobuchi's writing was far for divisive and sharp than it needed to me to make the novelty hold up. It succumbed to a direction at the end that makes me fear next season could go off the rails but hey, I'll watch anyway. I've never seen anything quite like it. I'd rate that final episode a C, with the series being a B+ (could have been an A- if it stuck the landing). Which part of this is deus ex machina? It has been foreshadowed again and again that Shang is extremely strong, with the later ones even pushing for the idea that he's possibly the strongest out of the characters we know. It's pretty much intentional that we see hardly anything truly outstanding about Shang before the final episode, after all, one of the main aspect of his character is that he doesn't strive to standout. It fits his laid back personality and as we have found out, makes perfect sense with his backstory. Among all the flashy characters, many of whom either possess or a vast amount of fame or is obsessed with gaining some, it only makes him and his eventual reveal more appreciable. Then there's Lin. He has somehow gained fame, but it wasn't intentional, and as a result he has a perfectly reasonable trump card up his sleeve. Considering his bold and fearless attitude and the types of people he dealed with, it'd be harder to imagine that he's not a skilled fighter. Now, regarding the lack of evilness of the final boss. This is a creative medium, following a well-worn guildline is hardly going to make your work stands out. I see no reason why there is any need to directly shows how terrifying this thing is by having it destroys villages, when it's threat is shown indirectly in so many ways. Plus it's been done so many times, there's nothing remarkable about it, why waste time to focus on it and drag on the story? Especially for one that more or less seems to be a prologue.

I'll address this one point at a time:

It was explained in the previous episode why Shang is strong: his skill in using any object as a sword was enough to justify the mystique around him. It was a unique character trait that told a lot about who he was and why he acted so unfazed. It was perfectly build up in that his "sword" was specifically mentioned throughout the series and when you look back there are moments that make more sense with context. I'd say that's an outstanding enough.

But suddenly having a whole swath of powerful swords that he pulls out at the last possible minute? That's textbook deus ex machina, a saving grace that he happened to have at the exact right moment that was unestablished beforehand. I simply see no other way of looking at it. It was incredibly unsatisfying, especially after the reveal of his sword skill in the previous episode. Plus it undermines his ability to use anything as a sword when he ends up relying on a real sword to take out the big bad in the end.

As for Lin, it's more understandable that he's a master swordsman. I still think it borders on deus ex machina but more importantly it was a letdown. Lin's pipe/illusion magics perfectly fit his character and his use of them to overcome his enemy would have been a much better fit for his character. Instead he becomes generically overpowered. Master swordsmen are dime-a-dozen in anime and Thunderbolt Fantasy already was heavily made up of them itself. It felt like they took the lazy route.

These reveals for these characters were both poorly handled, sure, but they also make me less interested in the second season. Now that these two characters with unique abilities have been shown to be overpowered in far less interesting ways the stakes have been lowered. What I personally enjoyed about their characterizations has been undermined in ways I don't think can be taken back. I'll still watch the next season and I'm sure it'll be at least enjoyable for the puppetry but my expectations for the story have been lowered.

Now, for the demon queen figure (can't remember the name), you're right. There's no law saying you need to do something a certain way. Many creators have subverted audience expectations and tradition to great extent. However, simply being subversive doesn't make your work better. Any story needs to justify its decisions.

I don't see this being subversive though. It felt rushed. There was nothing inherently interesting about the "final boss" being defeated with ease.

What this situation comes down to is the old mantra of "show, don't tell." The show told us about the demon's destructive past but didn't show us anything impacting our character and their immediate world to make us care. Sure, there were threats of what would happen but again, show, don't tell.

My point is that there's a reason things are done a certain way: it works. Even successful subversiveness maintains the integrity and immediacy of its characters and world. This final episode failed to do that.