Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Orange
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nobody knows
Posts: 71 |
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I'm the only one who dislike the relationship between naho and Kakeru as lover?! they are much better stay as friends .
I hope they didn't end up together but still stay friends , that kind of end i want. |
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Punch Drunk Marc
Posts: 1742 |
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True. It doesn't seem to be working that much. Also I know that the scene between Kakeru and Naho was supposed to illustrate how damaging the letters could be with the whole "knowing too much about the future disrupts the present" sort of thing, but instead of actually trying to sidestep what caused the fight Naho basically rephrases what the letter told her not to. Dramatic tension is par for the course in this series and that is all well and good, but I couldn't help but think that it would have been better if Naho either let Kakeru go and tell him to call the group of he needed anything or if better yet SHE OFFERED TO GO WITH HIM! She said she didn't want him to be alone. She could have easily asked if she could come with Kakeru to the hospital to visit his Grandma (she could have even invited the others if she wanted to). That way even if Kakeru declined, he would at least know that his friends are taking his concerns seriously and that they care about him. She really has yet to take that leap that will help her and Kakeru's relationship. |
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meruru
Posts: 471 |
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I agree, Naho should have offered to go with him to see his grandmother. It makes sense that she'd be worried to leave him alone, but it also makes sense that he'd want to see his grandmother who is old and in the hospital.
I think though while they're taking about the ethics of using the letters with accidental side effects on others isn't really an ethical concern. They can only act on the information given in the letters, and the letters do not change as they change the future, meaning they don't really know how their actions will change other things, so I see any accidental effects they have on others as no different as a person with no knowledge of the future doing something that accidentally effects someone else differently than if they had happened to make another choice. The way I see it, the real ethics problem is the elephant in the room -- Kakeru. Their letters all directly concern him, and they use their knowledge to manipulate him (even if for good intentions.). They talk about not hiding anything from each other, and yet Kakeru is the only one in their group who doesn't know about the letters. I think they realize deep down that Kakeru would hate to know that they'd been secretly manipulating him with their best intentions. It's also dehumanizing to be manipulating someone that way. Like in other time travel shows where they just keep going back in time and redo a social interaction if they don't like the outcome, which makes you start treating the other person as a system to be gamed rather than a human being. |
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Merida
 Posts: 1945 |
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When i first read the manga some time ago, the story really resonated with me on an emotional level because of personal reasons i don't intend to go further into here. The story presents a pretty accurate portrayal of depression you rarely see in mainstream manga/anime while still managing to give us an uplifting message about friendship and love.
I never understood why the mangaka felt the need to include a love triangle, though. Genre conventions, perhaps? Pitting "selfless" Suwa versus "selfish" Kakeru didn't do the actual story any good. How is a severely depressed kid supposed to win against Mr. Perfect in a popularity contest? The hostility directed at Kakeru in some comments really made me sad. I guess people who have no experience with depression (first- or second-hand) have a hard time empathizing with him... Overall it was a decent adaption, it had its ups and downs, but the voice actors did a pretty amazing job. |
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Animechic420
 Posts: 1727 Location: A Cave Filled With Riches |
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I think the real issue people had was that spoiler[Future Suwa and Naho were seemingly willing to give up their current lives to save a friend.] It's hard to explain, but the question everyone is probably asking themselves is: Am I willing to go that far to save someone from the past if it means losing my own future? Again, it's hard to explain, but all we can do now is just accept whatever happened in this series. Although, in my opinion, I don't think this was a well choreographed romance manga/anime. 
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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This is EXACTLY the problem with the story. Especially when they go the extra step to show that Suwa is ENTIRELY aware of what his future was. Its especially damning that Suwa isn't even going to TELL Naho how he feels. To me, that makes it the worst because not only is one left to REALLY wonder if future Naho was pining over Kakeru all this time, but in a very real way Suwa takes away Naho's "right" to decide for herself by never telling her how he feels. He feels "its just better for everyone", and really that sets a bad precedent for Kakeru's life. I haven't had a battle with depression, so it this story gives someone who is doing that something to latch onto, then I guess that's a good thing. But from my view the biggest failing of Orange is that it GLORIFIES suicide. It encourages people that might have that "they'll be sorry if I'm gone" kind of thinking. It has 5 people that ten YEARS later are sitting around saying "oh man, remember Kakeru, yeah Kakeru was the BEST, why did Kakeru have to die, man I really loved Kakeru". Heck, if nothing else I wish they'd at least had Kakeru get angry (at his MOTHER) just ONCE that his mom offed herself. Instead, that ALSO is framed as this special "martyrdom" that leaves Kakeru longing for the unhealthy relationship they previously shared. |
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Merida
Posts: 1945 |
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We just gonna have to agree to disagree on the romance stuff because i really don't feel like discussing that all over again...but sorry,"glorifying suicide?! This is complete bullshit and really shows that you know nothing about depression. People don't just go and kill themselves because the thought of people being sorry they are gone is so damn thrilling...and i don't suppose somebody close to you ever committed suicide, otherwise you wouldn't find the thought of people still grieving after ten years so outrageous... 
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I will agree to disagree
You are entirely incorrect |
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secondkas
 Posts: 95 |
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Even at the start of the series it has been clear: Orange's main theme is regret and redemption from it. It shows many perspectives about it, whether you're rectifying things for yourself or for others, whether if it's out of love or moral responsibility. It used suicide as a take-off point, which is quite apt since that act can affect a lot of people the departed left behind, causing them great confusion and sadness. And I'm sure most of the bereaved's thoughts would go, "Was it my fault?" (If there's anyone here who has personally experienced this in any form, please know that I want to sympathise).
I didn't feel Orange is glorifying suicide. It just showed a scenario of how your loved ones would handle things if you left. Naho's group felt they handled it "wrong" at the beginning that they willed time and space to change. It's hyperbolic, but a good narrative tool if you suspend your disbelief. Regarding Suwa, he would appear more realistic if we could catch a glimpse of his struggle in sacrificing his "happiness", but I would like to assume that Kakeru's redemption is also Suwa's "happiness", almost equivalent with ending up with Naho. If I'm going to take "x marrying y" as an indication of a Happily Ever After, then I think I'm missing a vital message of the series. Overall, Orange is one of the best stories I've followed this year. |
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Punch Drunk Marc
Posts: 1742 |
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Honestly I don't think its that damning what Suwa did. He even said to the others that even though he and Naho eventually got married in the future, his letter told him that he was rejected when he first confessed at the festival. Even in the future timeline Naho wanted to fix things with Kakeru and didn't just go to Suwa right away. This was expanded on a bit on Valentine's day when Naho's letter said she made Kakeru chocolate but didn't tell anybody, and she felt awkward about giving it to him because of their fight. I think in both timelines Naho essentially chose Kakeru, but in the original she was pushed away by him because of his self-hate and fear of hurting her (she also had not yet knew about his depression/suicidal tendencies and thus didn't know how to speak with him anymore). Add on to the fact that he died without them ever making up and it makes sense that she would go to Suwa since he provided that emotional support she so desperately needed and a relationship blossomed from that; but the question hanging over them was always "What if Kakeru was still alive?" All in all I think Orange did a good job telling the story it wanted. It certainly handled depression better than a show like "Your Lie in April" for example (which I liked but it really didn't do much to make its main female character likable). |
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