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Answerman - Why Don't More Anime Discs Come With Digital Downloads?


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Kadmos1



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:05 am Reply with quote
Another reason why they might not as many digital downloads so they can avoid making it easier for people to pirate the shows. AnimeAddict2014, they have the the series Ultraviolet: Code 044 on DVD.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:42 pm Reply with quote
Kalessin wrote:
The folks selling the content are paranoid that folks will pirate it, and way too many of the folks consuming the content will gladly pirate it without a second thought.


I wouldn't call that paranoia. People will pirate those digital downloads.

Thing is, people will pirate the content regardless of whether their original source is a DD, DVD/BD Rip, or TV/Streaming rip.

Practically speaking, it ultimately makes zero difference whether the DD's are available. However, despite that, studios are rationally, yet understandably, loath to make available another venue for people to pirate material.

-t
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:22 am Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:
I actually much prefer digital copies over combo packs. While I have used digital downloads before, I've never used the DVD copy in a combo pack. It's just a wasted disc for me. That being said, I much prefer the iTunes system where you download it and own it. I shouldn't have to use data every time I want to watch it by streaming it from another company's server. Not to mention, what happens should that company shut down?


Same here. I never understood why every company that makes home video discs is so bent on selling Blu-Ray and DVD combo packs. I only want the Blu-Ray. That being said, the Disney sets have the Blu-Ray, a DVD, and a digital copy. The only digital download code used in any home video I've bought was for WALL•E, which I gave to someone else.

I don't know about the UltraViolet system, but the Disney ones expire, most commonly at the end of the year after the home video release. Not only does this mean it's useless for archival purposes, it's useless if you're buying the home video long after it comes out (and with stuff like Pixar movies and Frozen, they'll release them continuously year after year).

Blanchimont wrote:
maximilianjenus wrote:
Quote:
With most anime discs only expected to sell between 5,000 and 10,000 units,


this is funny because it means that most anime would be a hit for the creators (if they were able to sell directly to the usa and keep the same price and the same sales nubers)

Keep in mind US discs usually have more episodes movies aside, and are often sold in sets...


They also tend to cost a great deal less than the ones in Japan, with much smaller profit margins as a result.

The market is quite different between Japan and other countries: Whereas the Japanese have a small but dedicated group of people who will buy these, and lots of them, for very high prices, the conclusion companies like Viz and FUNimation seem to have made, based on how they sell anime, is that their customers either buy anime for cheap or don't buy them at all. (This is just a guess of mine.) That is, it seems that there are fewer hardcore collectors (or a lower concentration of them) in the west than in Japan, but much more casual viewers.

Tempest wrote:
I wouldn't call that paranoia. People will pirate those digital downloads.

Thing is, people will pirate the content regardless of whether their original source is a DD, DVD/BD Rip, or TV/Streaming rip.

Practically speaking, it ultimately makes zero difference whether the DD's are available. However, despite that, studios are rationally, yet understandably, loath to make available another venue for people to pirate material.

-t


Well, I would say that although nothing is immune to piracy, certain things are easier to pirate than others, and the pirates will want to go for low-hanging fruit. The harder it is to pirate something, the more committed the pirate has to be to try it, and consequently, there would be fewer pirates for it.

Something as easy as DRM-free download-to-own movies at maximum quality is just going to invite people everywhere to make copies and give them to everyone they know. It would be the absolute easiest set of conditions to make illegal copies of a movie or TV show, and so the largest amount of people will do it. It'd be the equivalent of a bank or jewelry store that not only has no security, but leaves every door open all night long, including the front doors. It practically invites thieves in (though there may be some who would hesitate because of how suspiciously open the place is). No matter how well-protected the place is, there will be a burglar capable of getting in, but having some amount of security, or even the threat thereof, will deter potential burglars from trying.
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Shiroi Hane
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:29 am Reply with quote
I think I redeemed an Ultraviolet code once...

Jerome from Manga said something about it ages ago. I'm pretty sure I... yes:
https://twitter.com/MangaUK/status/219719448456740864
Quote:
No. It's deeply flawed and too expensive for fans and small distributors to maintain.

The original tweet doesn't seem to come up any more, but it was with regards to UV.
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Kalessin



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:44 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Same here. I never understood why every company that makes home video discs is so bent on selling Blu-Ray and DVD combo packs. I only want the Blu-Ray.


Having a combo pack means that they only have one SKU to deal with for that title. Selling the DVDs and Blu-rays separately doubles what they have to deal with, and it also means that they then have to worry about figuring out how many DVDs they're likely to need and how many Blu-rays they're likely to need rather than just figuring out how many copies of the movie or show they're likely to need. It also helps promote Blu-ray, because then all of those folks who don't have Blu-ray players end up with Blu-rays, which makes them more likely to actually get a Blu-ray player. So, anyone looking to push the adoption of Blu-rays (like Sony) is that much more incentivized to do it. In most cases though, I'd guess that it's simply because it makes the logistics easier for the company releasing the movie or show.

Now, personally, I'm sick of getting DVDs. I just want the Blu-ray, and as nice as Funimation's LE editions with the boxes are, you generally onl need the box because they put both the DVDs and Blu-rays in there rather than just the Blu-rays. Otherwise, they'd just have the one case with two discs in it (at least for the single cour shows). So, while I like the box, it means that the shows are eating up more shelf space just because they insist on bundling the DVDs with the Blu-rays.

So, while I can understand why they do it, I'm also quite sick of it. I just want everything to be on Blu-ray and for DVDs to become as obsolete as VHS. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen any time soon, because too many folks simply don't care about video quality. Whereas I'm in the minority that gets annoyed at how low quality the video often is on Blu-ray - though that's generally an encoding issue and not an issue with resolution or anything inherent to the format (e.g. anime series are often released with horrible banding when it wouldn't be there if they just encoded the video properly).
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:02 am Reply with quote
Well, another factor is that DVD players got a wider adoption than Blu-Ray players, or at least are cheaper. It took until 2012 for my household to have one, which is because we managed to snag a near-mint secondhand one for a cheap price. For the record, I don't really care much about video quality either. The only HDTV in our house has broken HDMI (the screen went crazy before the warranty period expired, so we had it taken in to get it fixed--Samsung indeed identified a manufacturing error, but when it was returned, we couldn't get sound on anything connected via HDMI no matter how much I tried), so we just have everything connected via either component or composite.

That being said, I still see movies consistently released as DVD-only, in addition to Blu-Ray and DVD. The part I didn't understand was why there's DVD-only, then Blu-Ray and DVD, but never Blu-Ray only.
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Kalessin



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:35 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
That being said, I still see movies consistently released as DVD-only, in addition to Blu-Ray and DVD. The part I didn't understand was why there's DVD-only, then Blu-Ray and DVD, but never Blu-Ray only.


I definitely see Blu-ray only. For instance, Sentai typically releases their stuff that way, and some Aniplex USA stuff only gets released on Blu-ray. As for Hollywood stuff, as I recall, the last Bond film had a separate Blu-ray release, and I think that I've seen a few others like that. Also, I think that Hollywoood TV shows typically don't bundle DVDs and Blu-rays together.

That being said, as I understand it, doing the work to put a Blu-ray together is way more of a pain and quite a bit more expensive than putting a DVD together (and that's not even taking the cost of actually producing the discs into account). So, if you don't think that it's going to affect sales much, you might as well just release your movie or show on DVD and not bother with Blu-ray - even more so if the content is only SD to begin with. But if you're paying to produce the Blu-ray, it could save you a lot of hassle to bundle it with the DVD and only have the one SKU (especially since it's not likely that you're going to be releasing Blu-ray only given how big DVD sales still are). The only thing that you're losing out on at that point is that you're guaranteed to be producing twice as many discs as you actually need, but if the savings of only having one SKU to deal with outweigh that additional cost, then it likely becomes a no-brainer real fast. And I get the impression that some studios want to promote Blu-ray, and forcing Blu-rays onto the folks buying DVDs gives folks a Blu-ray collection that they may end up wanting to actually take advantage of, potentially resulting in those folks making the switch to Blu-ray.
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:29 am Reply with quote
Hmm, that's odd. Every Hollywood movie I've taken enough of an interest in to get the home video release ever since we got that Blu-Ray player is one where I've failed to find a Blu-Ray-only release. (The last three, for the record, were The Peanuts Movie, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, and Zootopia.)

If it's less trouble and may actually cost them less to bundle them together, I guess that must be the reason. Kind of weird results though, and I feel like I'm the only one confused by it all. I myself am not that bugged over it, as the Blu-Ray and DVD set always costs about US$5 more than the DVD-only release, and I suspect the Blu-Ray by itself would've cost that much; it just doesn't feel logical to me.
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EricJ2



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:55 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Same here. I never understood why every company that makes home video discs is so bent on selling Blu-Ray and DVD combo packs.


Well, that's actually a bit of history:
Originally, Disney was the most active seller of Blu-rays (since Steve Jobs was on the board), and tried to push Blu-ray with their big year-long limited-time reissues of Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio, but realized that even interested customers said they wouldn't be able to buy a player for another three years and might miss out.
They, ahem, TRIED to convince the DVD public that even if they didn't have the player yet, they would still get a free DVD to use in the meantime if they bought the Blu-ray combo...Such a good idea, they spread it to all their new Blu titles. Unfortunately, that was drowned out by the Blu-ray owners saying "A DVD for me? Thanks--Now I have one for the laptop and kids' room!"
(And the irony is, the DVD folks never got the message: Disney tried everything, even selling their combo packs in DVD cases, so that DVD buyers would be "fooled" into buying the combo--But when they even tried delaying the DVD-only release for six weeks later, that news hit the headlines, and all the DVD owners cried "They're being mean and making us wait! Sad ")

So: That never happened. Within three years, even Disney was spreading the "An extra copy for on the go!" myth in their advertising.
Why they're still selling DVD combo packs now, now that the laptop has been replaced by the tablet, and most people use digital for a travel/kids "backup", I'm...not sure. Just sort of tradition, guess.
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dragonrider_cody



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:58 am Reply with quote
Combo packs have become the standard for Hollywood studios because the costs to produce DVD's on the scale that they do is pretty small at this point. Also, doing a DVD for each combo pack, plus one for the DVD only releases helps drive the cost per unit even lower.

Many smaller companies like Sentai, Aniplex, or even other home video distributors like Shout Factory, just don't have the scale to make combo packs as cost effective. Sentai only does them for their collector's editions, which are priced higher, and some of their lower budget "Selects" releases. But in the latter cases, it's only been for movie releases where just two discs will be needed.

Bonus digital downloads are also pretty rare for American TV shows. I've bought many series on bluray, and none of them have ever come with digital downloads. I bought one set that advertised it, but it turned out that you needed to take the set back to Walmart to get access to the VUDU codes. Why they didn't just include the digital codes, I will never understand.

However, I really don't like how VUDU and others require you to stream the movie or show from their servers. If I own it, I should be able to store it on my device. It seems more of them, like Amazon, are allowing you to download digital content, but they often require some sort of wifi or cell service, so they can confirm the license and device.

I much prefer the iTunes system where I only need to link my account once and download the file. If my laptop never links to the internet again, the file will still work. That's how all digital content should be. Plus, you don't have to worry about what happens to your purchased content, should the service shut down. A lot of people got screwed when Microsft, Yahoo, and other's shut down their music download services, and I would prefer to not have the happen to me.
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Touma



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:10 am Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:
Within three years, even Disney was spreading the "An extra copy for on the go!" myth in their advertising.

It is not a myth if the extra discs are real and can be used.

Quote:
Why they're still selling DVD combo packs now, now that the laptop has been replaced by the tablet,

My laptops have not been replaced by a tablet. I actually do own a 7" Android tablet but do not remember the last time that I tried to use it.
Do people really watch movies on tablets?

Quote:
Just sort of tradition, guess.

It is not just tradition at this time because a real market does still exist.
Personally, I always watch the DVD if I have one mostly because my DVD player is much better than my Blu-ray player in terms of features and ease of use. That is something that could change if I ever need to get a new Blu-ray player, but for now it is a decisive factor. Also my only Blu-ray player is connected to the TV in my living room, but I have DVD players other places, including portables.
The only time that I watch Blu-ray is if I have no choice or I want to check some specific image at the best possible resolution. That usually only happens with very small text, such as an image of a computer monitor or cell phone screen, and is seldom an issue. Other than that animation just does not have enough detail for me to see a difference.

As for the digital download, I have no use for that at all.
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Ouran High School Dropout



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:32 pm Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:
I actually much prefer digital copies over combo packs. While I have used digital downloads before, I've never used the DVD copy in a combo pack. It's just a wasted disc for me.

While I agree with you about digital downloads, I've worked out a sweet deal with an old friend of mine: whenever either of us gets combo packs (usually from FUNi or Viz), she gives me her Blu-rays, and I give her my DVDs. Win-win.

Touma wrote:
The only time that I watch Blu-ray is if I have no choice or I want to check some specific image at the best possible resolution. ... Other than that animation just does not have enough detail for me to see a difference.

Curious...for me, the difference is clear and (depending on the title) even striking, especially with anime feature films. In terms of color, DVDs are washed and a bit faded, and the image as a whole looks like I'm watching through a wispy veil of fog. It's long reached a point where I can tell one from the other at a glance (that is, if the video master is native HD to begin with).


Last edited by Ouran High School Dropout on Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EricJ2



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:07 pm Reply with quote
Touma wrote:
EricJ2 wrote:
Within three years, even Disney was spreading the "An extra copy for on the go!" myth in their advertising.

It is not a myth if the extra discs are real and can be used.


Yes, but, if you're a Blu owner, they were never supposed to be used by YOU!
It's like those pushy parents that break up their kids' Little-League game--We almost had DVD Luddites' hearts and minds on the whole "It's expensive and it'll be years before I can do it!" Format-War front, and you personally ruined two key years of mainstream industry acceptance for everybody!
Eight years later, even studios still think we're "niche" freaks!

(Fortunately, Disney learned their lesson, and made the "Buy Now, Watch Later(tm)" message a little clearer in the copy when they bundled 2D Blu-rays with their 3D titles, for users who hadn't bought one of those yet.)

Ouran High School Dropout wrote:
While I agree with you about digital downloads, I've worked out a sweet deal with an old friend of mine: whenever either of us gets combo packs (usually from FUNi or Viz), she gives me her Blu-rays, and I give her my DVDs. Win-win.


Back in the early days, when adopters wanted to show how supportive they were in the Format War--and even afterwards, when Blu won but fans couldn't stop--or when Criterion and anime fans binge-buy every new set of the week just because they can and think they "should", there used to be the problem of all those old replaced DVD's.
Whenever I would try to Temperance-lecture the damaging practice of Blu-ray Binge-buying, the happy addicts always defended themselves with "But I can recoup my losses selling the old DVD's back to Amazon!"
Uh-haahhh...Tried that lately? Razz ("Your disk may be worth a $0.75 gift certificate!") Crash-boom-bang dropped the bottom out of that market, and now DVD replacers have to find some other charitable place to eat the loss and drop their old disks off for free.

Most regift them to low-tech relatives, but when even those relatives go Blu, that narrows the options.
I've discovered, if you're only renting, the public library is a good option for a quick Friday-night DVD (or Blu), and in most towns, needs as many as they can get. Oh, and if you get a receipt, you can also declare a nominal $5 town charity-contribution per disk off your taxes.

When I had to get rid of my old Pioneer Sailor Moon S set in readiness for Viz's set next November, the neighboring college-town library, with a heavy manga-grrl demographic and an emerging Anime shelf in their YA section, was only too happy to take it. Cool
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:01 pm Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:
Why they're still selling DVD combo packs now, now that the laptop has been replaced by the tablet, and most people use digital for a travel/kids "backup", I'm...not sure. Just sort of tradition, guess.


Hmm, okay then. Most of the Hollywood movies I get on home video would be categorized as family films, and as they're still doing it now, it'd make sense to have the Blu-Ray to watch in the living room or whatever and the DVD for the kids' room. And the digital copy for tablets.

Touma wrote:
Do people really watch movies on tablets?


Some people actually do. Mostly kids, at least when out in public. I have no idea what people's viewing habits are within their own homes. Movies on tablets seems to be mostly a way to keep the kids occupied somewhere, like on a bus or in a waiting room, allowing the parents to do their own thing. A virtual babysitter, I guess.

As for me, I'll use the Blu-Ray because, unsurprisingly, they'll load all of the bonus content onto the Blu-Ray and provide only the bare bones stuff on DVD, if anything at all. Anime is normally really scant on bonus content though, regardless of disk type.
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EricJ2



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:11 pm Reply with quote
Touma wrote:
Do people really watch movies on tablets?


As opposed to cellphones, definitely.

I don't use them as my main source--not as long as I have the PS3/Blu-ray/STB connected to my living-room HDTV flatscreen--but it's nice to be able to watch Crunchyroll or Netflix when I'm in bed or the kitchen.
If I did more WiFi traveling, I could probably use it a lot more, but as it is, there's not much WiFi on airlines.[/quote]
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