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NEWS: Sony Unveils PlayStation 4 Slim, PlayStation 4 Pro Consoles (Updated)


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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:45 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
If this is the way things are going to be, call me when games are just streaming OnLive PSNow services so that I never have to upgrade hardware again and they can update it as much as they want on the server side without the hassle to me.

Hardware will always need to be upgraded so long as more polygons/shaders are needed to be pushed onto the screen. A streaming service would simply just mean you're using the internet to access the game's data from a remote server instead of accessing it locally from the disc reader or hard drive. That's all.

Personally I much prefer the PC side where I don't have to buy a completely new machine but can instead decided to upgrade only the components that are bottlenecking.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2242
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:

Personally I much prefer the PC side where I don't have to buy a completely new machine but can instead decided to upgrade only the components that are bottlenecking.


I actually also prefer PC, not only because I seem to get better graphics, but I also have better control over customizing games with mods and the like. But I've been following The Last Guardian for, what, ten years now? Now that it's finally got a tangible release date, I feel justified in purchasing the PS4 I would've bought for it anyways.

@leafy sea dragon
There are console cases that come with locks (I usually saw them in shared university spaces so students couldn't steal them), but it'll set you back another $100 or so.

Oh, by the by regarding Scorpio vs. PS4 Pro and all that jazz. I caught an aftershow of IGN's coverage at E3 after the Microsoft conference, where they revealed the Scorpio, and their guest attendee was one of the main guys behind the original Xbox. His approach, rather than hype about specs and what not, was the concern that developers might be stuck between choosing which version of Xbox to make their game for, and how to make them equally marketable. Seems like a valid concern to me, and I think Sony is probably a little smarter in not making the PS4 so drastically different from its predecessor.

Can't speak on its use as an entertainment device, though. I only use my consoles to play games. ^^;
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:11 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
@leafy sea dragon
There are console cases that come with locks (I usually saw them in shared university spaces so students couldn't steal them), but it'll set you back another $100 or so.


Don't worry, I'll figure something out. I have my Wii U and video capture hardware locked, after all. (The worry comes not from theft, but from her outright breaking things. She's broken our kitchen sink and garage door, and almost broke our stove and washing machine.)
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:20 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:
The Pro should've been the more expensive enthusiast model.


.....You do know that historically selling a video game console at an astronomically large price tag has generally not gone over well right?


jdnation wrote:
I know that Microsoft got shafted for emphasizing media over gaming prior to launch,



Actually they they got shafted for a combination DRM esque policies and built-in kinect, features no wanted the latter of which caused the high price tag for the One.



jdnation wrote:
Terrible decision, and one that wouldn't cost them much. Considering BOM puts a UHD drive inclusion at around $15-20, and Sony could've just upped the price to $450, allowing them room to drop to $400 closer to Scorpio's arrival.


This sounds like a really dumb and impractical idea to be honest why would you launch a device at such a needlessly high price point against a competitor that likely will be selling their device at a slightly lower price? Basically you want them to do the very same thing they did last generation and also what Microsoft just did this generation as well neither occurrence ending well.



jdnation wrote:
In either case, I personally don't like the precedent these upgrade consoles set. It just tells me never to buy a console at launch ever again and just wait for a potential upgraded model


I'd understand your rationale if this weren't the first time such a thing has happened and if this was something actually worth getting (which it's not unless you got a 4K compatible TV). Basically you're pulling a chicken little without much basis for it.
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OpinionatedWeaboo



Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:40 pm Reply with quote
4k? There's not even a 2k standard yet, why is everything trying to sell me 4k as if it were the next best thing? I can accept 2k as long as it keeps display response within the reasonable, but a 4k 60" TV will never do that, so why exactly do I want 4k on my gaming console again?
I'm interested in knowing what's going to happen with us owners of the "1st generation" of PS4, and if the "2nd generation" consoles have the disc-ejection problems the previous one had.
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Amiantos



Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 342
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:59 am Reply with quote
OpinionatedWeaboo wrote:
4k? There's not even a 2k standard yet, why is everything trying to sell me 4k as if it were the next best thing? I can accept 2k as long as it keeps display response within the reasonable, but a 4k 60" TV will never do that, so why exactly do I want 4k on my gaming console again?
I'm interested in knowing what's going to happen with us owners of the "1st generation" of PS4, and if the "2nd generation" consoles have the disc-ejection problems the previous one had.

I read that the 2k resolution range is actually more power hungry than 4k. pc gaming is pushing the 4k range now too.
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AnimeLordLuis



Joined: 27 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:09 am Reply with quote
I think I'll get the Xbox One Scorpio instead of the PS4 Pro because right now Sony and I aren't on the best of terms. Evil or Very Mad
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:27 am Reply with quote
OpinionatedWeaboo wrote:
4k? There's not even a 2k standard yet, why is everything trying to sell me 4k as if it were the next best thing?

Quite so! Some of us still watch DVDs.

leafy sea dragon wrote:
It feels kind of weird to me to see the word "Pro" being used for the more expensive model. As someone who follows releases from Stern, their "Pro" models are their lowest-end ones and move up to "Premium," "Limited," and, with the announcement of Batman '66, "Super-Limited."

Conversely, I find it odd that there is a need to designate a home entertainment system as being for professionals. I hear that some video games are played competitively, but surely this system is intended for a broader customer base than such a niche.


Since the new console resembles two Playstation 4 units joined together, I hereby propose calling such a machine the "PS'More".
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:48 am Reply with quote
OpinionatedWeaboo wrote:
4k? There's not even a 2k standard yet, why is everything trying to sell me 4k as if it were the next best thing? I can accept 2k as long as it keeps display response within the reasonable, but a 4k 60" TV will never do that, so why exactly do I want 4k on my gaming console again?


Because Sony (and Samsung) are trying to sell 4K UHD TV and disks--
And because hardware companies don't know why one format becomes a hit and one flops, they immediately assume ANY new hardware comes out and wipes the old one off the map overnight the way that Blu did with DVD.
(You should the 3DTV haters say "Yay, 4K's coming, now that means 3D's going to disappear for good!"...Until the first 4K sets came out with 3D capability.)

You, OTOH, claim you have no idea why 4K is supposed to be good or an advantage.
That's what makes you a customer, and that's why customers won't buy the new format--They don't know what it is either. Razz
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Animechic420



Joined: 25 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:56 am Reply with quote
So.....which one's the better option??? Confused
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OpinionatedWeaboo



Joined: 08 Jan 2014
Posts: 118
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:22 pm Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:
OpinionatedWeaboo wrote:
4k? There's not even a 2k standard yet, why is everything trying to sell me 4k as if it were the next best thing? I can accept 2k as long as it keeps display response within the reasonable, but a 4k 60" TV will never do that, so why exactly do I want 4k on my gaming console again?


Because Sony (and Samsung) are trying to sell 4K UHD TV and disks--
And because hardware companies don't know why one format becomes a hit and one flops, they immediately assume ANY new hardware comes out and wipes the old one off the map overnight the way that Blu did with DVD.
(You should the 3DTV haters say "Yay, 4K's coming, now that means 3D's going to disappear for good!"...Until the first 4K sets came out with 3D capability.)

You, OTOH, claim you have no idea why 4K is supposed to be good or an advantage.
That's what makes you a customer, and that's why customers won't buy the new format--They don't know what it is either. Razz


I see your point, but you missed mine. It was a sarcastic question: The larger a T.V. gets, the less ideal it is for gaming, because input lag is increased proportionally to the T.V. size, but this modifies the LOWEST possible input lag and not the highest. Which is why they still have "acceptable" input lag for most consumers, even if it is lower value is closer to 70ms.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1994
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:05 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
.....You do know that historically selling a video game console at an astronomically large price tag has generally not gone over well right?


Yes, that's why there's the Slim PS4 which is the cheapest option. An enthusiast model, being marketed to the consumer buying 4K TVs is a higher tier market that can withstand a higher tiered product at a higher price.


Quote:
Actually they they got shafted for a combination DRM esque policies and built-in kinect, features no wanted the latter of which caused the high price tag for the One.


True, that was the worst thing about it. But the marketing image before the DRM policies became known behind the scenes was that the console was more geared to entertainment experiences rather than games which MS was pushing hard, and this left a negative taste initially before the shit really hit the fan when the DRM policies became known. The emphasis on games was also taken up by Sony in their pre-release marketing capitalizing on both Microsoft's folly for focusing on entertainment as well as DRM. Sony also seized upon Xbone's weaker hardware to push 1080p & 60fps over their competitor with their 8 GB GDDR advantage. And indeed it also helped that they were not only the most powerful console but also had the lowest price, but let's not neglect that the power advantage is of concern to the enthusiasts for whom the Pro is being marketed to as an upgrade to their existing PS4 console.



Quote:
This sounds like a really dumb and impractical idea to be honest why would you launch a device at such a needlessly high price point against a competitor that likely will be selling their device at a slightly lower price? Basically you want them to do the very same thing they did last generation and also what Microsoft just did this generation as well neither occurrence ending well.


As I explained above, there is the slim PS4. It is a thing that exists for those who want a lower barrier of entry that will continue to keep sales up. The PS4 Pro is the enthusiast model. Hop onto any enthusiast forum where the audience for this device exists and the reaction is a big negative for the lack of the UHD drive's inclusion. Scorpio, will be a higher priced premium product. Microsoft is going for the jugular by going for the high end enthusiasts, the ones swayed by the progression of PC tech due to the lengthier generations and paying for VR headsets like the Oculus Rift, the ones buying 4K TVs. Microsoft has already conceded the fact that they will not sell in greater numbers than PS4 this gen. So they are going for profitability. The Xbox One S is the mass market product. The Scorpio is the premium product at a higher tier price for that higher tier customer. If Sony is going to half ass their approach with the pro, then they will cede this segment of the market to Microsoft.



jdnation wrote:
I'd understand your rationale if this weren't the first time such a thing has happened and if this was something actually worth getting (which it's not unless you got a 4K compatible TV). Basically you're pulling a chicken little without much basis for it.


If it was just a resolution bump only for 4k owners to notice I wouldn't care, but the Pro offers other benefits to regular HDTV owners by improving graphics. Had I know there was a choice of a superior system I would've waited. In the past we've hard hardware refreshes, but those were mostly cosmetic, and any RAM upgrades were mostly concerned with OS usage and loading improvements but games were still the same. I personally would love to play Hideo Kojima's next game with the best detail possible.

I'm not pulling a chicken little with regards to Sony's install base. They still have the advantage of the greater install base and the cheaper model with the Slim. But the Pro and likewise the Scorpio were always intended for a more niche but profitable market. Bungling the Pro will only be a bump on the road and will do more harm to the Pro's chances than it will the average buyer without a 4K TV looking at the cheaper slim. Granted the Pro has advantages for 1080p owners, but the people who Sony was counting on to buy it and upgrade their systems are vocally disappointed at the lack of inclusion of a UHD drive. As you well noted, if I haven't got a 4K Tv, why buy this thing?

But heck, if I do have a 4K TV, then why would I buy this thing, when the competitor is likely to cover all the bases? yes, UHD blu-ray sales are niche, but that's precisely the niche audience who are interested in spending more, not to mention that it has generally been the PlayStation that has driven sales behind DVD and blu-ray adoption, that just perhaps PS4 Pro could've contributed to. maybe if the UHD drive was some ginormous price difference we could imagine the rationale for leaving it out. But it's not! A $50 bump would've been more than sufficient and brought in additional profit, and would've avoided all the general negativity and disappointment seen by the lack of UHD drive in what is essentially being sold as a UHD console/entertainment system. The people who want UHD on disc know that 4K streaming isn't good enough.

Plus considering this forum of anime enthusiasts, where blu-ray and DVD physical sales are doing great according to Answerman, particularly to the otaku market in Japan, while there aren't any anime in 4K and likely won't be as far as general TV series for the very long time if ever outside of possibly upscaling, I believe if PlayStation helped drive a market for 4K ownership in Japan, then there would at least be the possibility of seeing larger fancier theatrical flicks in 4K particularly for CG features like Gantz 0, or Kingsglaive: Final Fantasy XV or if Production I.G. ever has Oshii make Ghost in the Shell 3, or Anno wants Eva 4.0 in 4K so we can witness the apocalypse better, or Otomo wants to make another round of short films in 4K. Long shots and dreams... I know, but the possibility would've been nice, and the only console vendor to help that along would be Sony, because Microsoft is dead in the water, and Nintendo doesn't care. Given many of us also love Disney/Pixar films, UHD options for those would've been worth it alone.

Heck if anything, having more non-4K anime episodes on one disc would already be a benefit.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5888
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:42 pm Reply with quote
Animechic420 wrote:
So.....which one's the better option??? Confused


It depends if you have a 4K TV and want a console that's 4K compatible (but can't play 4K blu-rays) Get the Pro. If you don't have a 4K TV or care about 4K in general just get the slim.


jdnation wrote:
True, that was the worst thing about it. But the marketing image before the DRM policies became known behind the scenes was that the console was more geared to entertainment experiences rather than games which MS was pushing hard,


The irony though is that In the middle of it's run the 360 was marketed more or less under the same guise, eventhough it couldn't play blu-ray's natively.

jdnation wrote:

A $50 bump would've been more than sufficient and brought in additional profit,


But the question is would they be able to make a profit selling something they'd likely be selling at a significant loss and too a likely small group of people?

jdnation wrote:
and would've avoided all the general negativity and disappointment seen by the lack of UHD drive in what is essentially being sold as a UHD console/entertainment system.


Actually the general disappointment and negativity stemmed from the fact that prior to them going into depth as to what the Pro was people were feeling that they'd be screwed over if they didn't have the Pro. Do the to their beliefs that the Pro would have exclusive games made specifically for it. And that games on the Pro would look drastically better than games on the standard/slim PS4. The lack of 4K compatibility will only be a deal breaker for video connoisseurs.


Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Animechic420



Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 1724
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:38 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Animechic420 wrote:
So.....which one's the better option??? Confused


It depends if you have a 4K TV and want a console that's 4K compatible (but can't play 4K blu-rays). If you don't have a 4K TV or care about 4K in general just get the slim.

I do not have a 4K TV. This is good. I don't have to pay $399.99 for a product I don't own. Smile
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:
Conversely, I find it odd that there is a need to designate a home entertainment system as being for professionals. I hear that some video games are played competitively, but surely this system is intended for a broader customer base than such a niche.


Well, Sony and Microsoft seem to both take a lot of pride in "professional" gamers, be it people who compete in tournaments, celebrities on video and streaming sites, or people who work in the industry at the garage/basement level. Granted, the numbers for all of them are microscopic compared to their system's total consumer base, but the image of the person who can make money playing video games IS incredibly alluring, and for everyone who receives a paycheck for something related to video games, there must be at least a hundred other people wanting to be like them.

None of these people really need top-of-the-line game systems (especially not the recorders and streamers), but that's something they don't need to know.

Animechic420 wrote:
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Animechic420 wrote:
So.....which one's the better option??? Confused


It depends if you have a 4K TV and want a console that's 4K compatible (but can't play 4K blu-rays). If you don't have a 4K TV or care about 4K in general just get the slim.

I do not have a 4K TV. This is good. I don't have to pay $399.99 for a product I don't own. Smile


Is that the only major difference between the Slim and the Pro? Are people going to pay an extra hundred bucks just so they can play in 4K?
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