Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Yuri!!! on Ice
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Chrysostomus
Posts: 335 |
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Uhh are you sure about that? From the Lupin fans I see about as much praise for Fujiko Mine as I see for Tomino's G-reco, which is to say, very little.
First Mob, now this. It really feels like we're being spoiled. |
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Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
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@meiam, I thought you meant the skating in the episodes, but the opening sequence is definetely not rotoscoped, all of the key poses are there and, if anything, the ballet sequence could be rotosocoped, specifically the part in which Yuri lifts up his leg and then jumps, it's a little weightless without being wobbly.
Only one, actually, Viktor already took the season off, and Yuri Plisetzky actually did it in incognito. |
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Paul D. Atreides
 Posts: 128 |
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Okay, now I've read it. But it's the same argument I've heard over and over:
My gripe is this: where does the boundary go? Some people will basically trash any and all straight-male-sex-fantasies as demeaning towards women, even if they fulfil the standards that have been set up here by ANN for what makes good fanservice. Like how about Bayonetta? Sure it had crappy storytelling, but awesome gameplay made even more fun by the shameless sexiness (which was the intention). Yet it still got panned by the internet-feminists. Why? In this landscape where people bemoan male fanservice for not being sex-positive enough, you'd figure that the perfect solution is to acknowledge the vast amount of sex-positive male-oriented hentai that exists out there. Yet people will ignore it, keep calling hentai a cesspool of depraved misogyny, and instead go about praising the gay-hentai anthology Massive. Hell, one university will even invite one of the artist for a signing event. You'd never see anyone give that honour to Yamatogawa or Yuzuki N' would you? Look, it's not that i hate Yuri on Ice for being openly homoerotic. On the contrary, I appreciate it, I appreciate honest dirtiness of all kinds. And yes, I do understand the argument made in the Answerman column. But it's not easy being a pervert whilst striving to be a feminist, I'm just trying to find a way to be both without being conflicted about it. And seeing stuff like this doesn't make it easier: http://elitedaily.com/life/culture/okay-to-objectify-men/1106317/ |
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gabuhaha
 Posts: 136 |
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The difference is this: Yuri on Ice has Yuri seeing Viktor standing up in the bath nude. For "mean-spirited sexy", if Viktor was a woman, they would have had Yuri somehow trip and up with his face in Viktor's crotch and hands on the boobs and it would be meant to be funny to the audience. It's about violation of physical boundaries and shaming of women for laughs. |
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2245 |
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@Paul D. Atreides
The boundary will obviously vary from person to person, but on the whole, I think agency is the key issue. Take Victor's naked-in-the-bath sequence and compare it to, oh, Asterisk War's busting-in-on-the-heroine-changing scene. Victor, as a character, is obviously really comfortable with his sexuality, so him being naked is not an embarrassing scenario for him. The scene isn't tainted with this voyeuristic bent, as Victor is very up-front about it all. Same for the Space Dandy rock show scene where the other guy is waving his butt in front of the audience. Both characters are "choosing" (or in this case, being portrayed as choosing, since fictional characters don't have any real agency if we're being technical) to be sexy. If you look at Asterisk War, the MC barges in on a character who doesn't want to be seen undressed, and the titillation comes from seeing her in a compromising position that is not of her own choosing. Contrast this with, say, the fireside sequence in Chivalry of a Failed Knight where the heroine asks to be undressed. Though for the record, I'm with you on Bayonetta. Bayonetta the character seemed to know about the fourth-wall game camera, so I always felt that her poses and what not were very tongue-in-cheek (terrible comments from the director aside). Bayonetta 2, however, falls into the opposite camp where the camera has very long, lingering, not tongue-in-cheek moments that really undercut the sex-positive nature of the first game. As for hentai, I can't speak to the majority of it, but the bits and pieces I come across seem to not handle female characters' agency well. You get lots of "don't!" and "stop!", which paints the whole thing in a kind of "I can't tell if you honestly don't want this or if you're just saying that to be coy" quagmire, which seems to be hentai's general perception among the not-interested-in-hentai anime fandom. It's pretty much why a lot of BL titles get a bad rap as well--lots of consent issues prevalent in the most widely read series leads to a perception that all BL has consent issues. As for why Massive was praised, I think you're seeing a false equivalency show up here. Massive wasn't necessarily praised for being purely gay and hentai, but because it was gay manga made by gay dudes. It's a barrier-breaking publication that takes the fetishization of BL out of (presumably) straight female writers' hands and puts it into the hands of the minority that it actually applies to the most: gay guys. (Is "gay guy" redundant? Eh, whatever.) But hey, you seem to be on something of the right track. Being sex-positive and feminist can often be at a crossroads due to the stigma of casual sex, but most feminists I've met are actually very sex-positive, so kudos to you. It's just good to be aware of a lot of the pitfalls of male-oriented fanservice shows because it's often swept under the rug; no one's saying you can't have your cheesecake and eat it too, just be aware that it's got its own problems. EDIT: Also, that Elite Daily article is BS, in my opinion. Objectification shouldn't happen to anybody, honestly, but I think the author is conflating beefcake with male objectification. I do think they're right in that it doesn't have the same sexual connotations as it does on women--for male objectification to happen on an equivalent scale as women, would, I think, require the guy's penis and/or butt to be basically the only thing zeroed in on--but it's basically the difference between a group of guys deciding to do a firefighter's calendar and distribute it vs peeping on your hot neighbor through the curtains he forgot to close last night. One is a-okay and in the open, the other is super creepy. |
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Wingbeats
 Posts: 272 Location: Boise, Idaho |
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Whiskeyii hit the nail on the head for me. I'm bisexual, and I am 100% onboard with fanservice of either gender - as long as they leave the cringy nonconsent thing out of it.
Character is totally fine with being seen with tits or butt out? Awesome 
Character is clearly embarassed and unhappy? Nope nope nope nope. Unfortunately, tripping into a girls boobs, groping, etc against her will is just so...prevalent in anime. Less so recently, it seems, but still. Just look at My Wife is the Student Council President - I am totally fine with that one cause the girl cleaaaarly wants to jump the MC's bones. Anyways, back on track here - Viktor is clearly completely fine with himself and the situation, so gimme dat lovely manbutts yes good. (I just kind of wish Yurio was a bit older than 15...) |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11354 |
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Thanks for that link. I've been meaning to see if I could find that weird octopus/urchin statue, but it appears the real thing isn't any less weird.
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Paul D. Atreides
Posts: 128 |
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I do admit that there is a lot of hentai of that sort, and I wish there wasn't. That being said, you need to make a distinction here. I think the kind of hentai you're referring to are the ones that portray situations that are supposed to be normal and vanilla, but can come of as (depending on who's reading it) forced because the female character keeps saying "don't" and "stop". Personally I find that stuff annoying and not the least bit sexy, and I know there are many who agree with me. It's much more erotic if she's actually enjoying it, and isn't afraid to show it 
However, what you need to take into account is that a large aspect of hentai (and pornography in general) is to cater to specific fetishes that would in normal circumstances be deemed immoral. A lot of people have that side to themselves, perverse fantasies that they keep to themselves, but secretly want to indulge. Whether or not you'd call that healthy, hentai does offer a safe outlet for such fantasies. In fact, when I first got into hentai I was quite shocked to discover that rape-hentai have a dedicated female following. When I asked one of them about it she told me that in real life she offers aid to rape victims, and would probably bite back at anyone who'd dare to harass her. She just happens to spend her free time by reading fiction where women are submissive. But I digress. I think I've made this into a much bigger issue than it really is. To be honest I don't watch that many fanservice-shows nowadays, and my sense of sexual humour is more along the lines of Deadpool as opposed to Asterisk War. I just have some left-over gripes from my anti-feminist phase, and that Elite Daily article is one of them. |
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Rivailloli
 Posts: 562 Location: Virginia |
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I am completely enamored by this show and it has only been two episodes! YOI has this sense of magic about it that just ignites nothing, but love within me. I've only had two other experiences like this when it came to anime and that was back when No. 6 started airing and when Free! began airing as well. I'm getting serious flashbacks to when I first graduated highschool and would rush home to rush watch the latest episode of Free! now I'm just rushing back from my university courses to watch YOI's latest episode.
Why I love it though? Hrm, I figure it's a mix of lovely animation, the characterization of the cast so far, the music, and the way this cast just acts so charmingly. I'm just left feeling rather impressed when I finish an episode. I can't lie either, that homoeroticism keeps me coming back too. It seems to me that maybe Viktor could be bisexual going by some of his lines and actions, but we'll just have to wait and see! It's probably not going to go anywhere, but a guy can dream! Thanks for doing these reviews by the way! I'm happy that you were chosen for this series. I totally love your writing style, Gabriella! ^^ |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1448 |
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I haven't seen episode 2 yet but I'm not really feeling it.
I do like free better,but I do want to know...why are shows like these make people have implications that the characters are gay? Maybe I don't see it. But when you have men with the same scenarios like their female counterparts their sexuality is always questioned. Maybe it's me but I don't get. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Apparently the current world champion in female figure skating (self-proclaimed otaku who recently made the news for performing a Sailor Moon routine) is actually enjoying Yuri on Ice quite a bit
https://twitter.com/JannyMedvedeva/status/786485691995787264 https://twitter.com/JannyMedvedeva/status/786112262939480064 |
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SkerllyF
Posts: 244 |
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So this series was where MAPPA´s money went out???? It´s like they wanted to do this over DAYS, but considering its source material is poor...
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crosswithyou
 Posts: 2892 Location: California |
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I think I saw the first tweet RTed by someone on my TL but I didn't know who the person was. Now I know!  Wouldn't it be cool if an actual skater did Viktor's routine from the first episode?
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CrowLia
Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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It would, but skating experts have said that said routine is a little beyond what is currently achievable in figure skating, the difficulty level is too high. On difficulty alone, Victor scores 10 points above the world record of men's figure skating, not counting his apparently flawless execution. |
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crosswithyou
Posts: 2892 Location: California |
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Which would only make it even cooler if it were pulled off! XDDDD |
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