Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Yuri!!! on Ice
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Stuart Smith
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Isn't it, though? She said Japanese fans didn't need confirmation if it was or wasn't, but that statement goes either way, really. Or did they not need confirmation as it's not an important issue to Japan? She did also express confusion and laughed at western fans thanking her for episode 7, which can be taken a few different ways. I would have to see the original text incase the translation was just as vague. -Stuart Smith |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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The quoted translation left out the part where she said she wants to allow people to come to their own conclusions, make of that what you will. |
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crosswithyou
 Posts: 2892 Location: California |
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It comes down to cultural differences. Take the English and Japanese language as an example. In English, it is the speaker's responsibility to get their intended meaning across to the listener, and therefore English speakers are more blunt and straightforward. In Japanese however, things are reversed and it is the listener's responsibility to make out what the speaker's intention is. This is why Japanese people beat around the bush so much, and why it can be frustrating for English-speakers to learn Japanese.
I'm pretty sure this is why Kubo sensei was so puzzled as to why foreigners kept wanting a clear explanation whereas Japanese viewers did not push for one. Living in Japan and having mostly Japanese people on my Twitter, I think I can safely say that most Japanese people assume the two kissed. Similar to non-Japanese viewers, of course there were "OMG, they just kissed, right!?" reactions when it happened but I believe the general consensus is that Victor kissed Yuri. |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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((((Deep breaths))))
I think it's at least partially a Pride thing? In west we're kind of used to and encouraged to be out and proud. Coming to terms with what your orientation is and being open with it are considered to be very important and powerful things. So...even if you're not LBGT, and even if there's ample evidence on screen, to not have it confirmed out loud can be kind of frustrating on a certain level. |
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crosswithyou
Posts: 2892 Location: California |
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^ Which again comes back to what I just said.
It's cultural differences. In Japan, it's the viewer's job to interpret the intentions of the creators. This is why things are not always spelled out as a foreign audience may want them to be. I certainly understand your point, but the bottom line is that this is a Japanese show, and therefore it is going to be presented mainly for a Japanese audience, one that can and will draw their own conclusions. Kubo sensei's answer about wanting people to come to their own conclusions is a very Japanese-like answer. I'm fairly sure that scene was meant to show that Victor and Yuri kissed, but Kubo sensei does not want to say it outright because then it would rob the audience of the ability to interpret things the way they want. |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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I also understand what you're saying, and I certainly hope that it doesn't sound like I'm trying to impose my values here.
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11352 |
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I'm only annoyed with denialists who deny they're more than just friends.  So I'm not here to tear you apart.
The thing is, I don't think Victor and Yuuri know what their relationship is either, in the sense that to them it doesn't fit neatly into any one slot. When Yuuri gives his press conference, he explicitly says (at least in Japanese) that what he feels is neither platonic nor romantic (I think the subs only had him denying the romantic). He knows how he feels, that Victor is the one person he wants to hold on to and bond with forever, he just doesn't have one word that encompasses all his feelings, so he "deliberately decided" (his words) to call it love (ai). Btw, if you haven't read the blog about the translation for this that I posted earlier, I still recommend doing so. I don't know if they've followed up with episodes 7-12 because I've never been able to follow a conversation on tumblr to save my life. :/ Are they dating? Well, where do you draw the line between dating and not dating? They spend all day together, every day, training for months on end, probably eat together, bathe together, apparently share a bed now and then, buy each other rings, kiss on the ice...I dunno, is that dating? Is that still just dating? Is that how your dates go? Most people don't have relationships like theirs, so it's hard to pin it down on the grid of mundane relationship landmarks, without stretching it all out of shape.
I think one other thing getting in the way of understanding is the cultural differences mentioned above this post. Japanese people tend to be more about show don't tell when it comes to love and affection, and don't often say "I love you" straight out, except in anime, but not so much in this one. 
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Pierrot.
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Hah I knew it. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5504 Location: Mexico |
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^Funny how you goad on that but fail to acknowledge or counterargue crosswithyou's explanation of the same quote and how the Japanese fandom seems to majorly favor the kiss interpretation. Selective reading as always with you people
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Pierrot.
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I've seen your passive aggressive posts here before but I'll have to ask you to calm down or I'll have to report you. By "Hah I knew it" I meant that's a typical japanese-like response by the creators whenever they're asked about the meaning of something in their works. They leave it to the audience to decide or interpret the meaning and draw their own conclusion. Regarding the rest of your post about the Japanese favoring the kiss interpretation, I honestly don't know what that even has to do with my post so I'll leave that. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11352 |
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And we were supposed to divine this meaning how? |
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CrowLia
Posts: 5504 Location: Mexico |
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It'd be very easy to play the "I just meant this other thing" card if not for the fact that you've dedicated the past week to downplay the show for "baiting" -not only in this thread but all across the board, even to the point of mockingly bringing it up in a thread of a completely different series- and implying people are fooling themselves to believe the kiss scene was indeed a kiss scene or that the show does indeed have a same-sex couple as protagonists:
So sorry if I don't buy your "I just meant this other thing" excuse, because none of your posts on the matter have been in that regards, while being very specific in the "lol no it wasn't a kiss, 100% bait" vein. I also find it funny that you accuse the show of being purposefully ambiguous and "baity" and "no explicit no count" but you expect people to draw the supposedly "correct" interpretation out of your way more ambiguous comment. |
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Pierrot.
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First of all, who is this "WE"? And Second, I was suspicious about the author's translated interview because they rarely if ever give a straight answer to something they made ambiguous on purpose.
It's not nice to make assumptions but no, I wasn't playing the "I just meant this other thing" card and frankly I find it really hilarious how you bring up my posts from other threads which has literally nothing to do with what I quoted here, It's also funny how you pick a sentence out of context to make me look like I'm downplaying the show. Regarding the first sentence, I was quoting one of the reviewers lines which I felt was poor excuse regarding why the staff couldn't depict two men kissing on television. Here's the entire post:
Regarding the second one (I still don't get why you're bringing it here), I was reassuring the other poster from " Welcome to the Ballroom " thread that it won't be like Yuri on Ice or baiting it's viewers. And yes YOI is guilty of baiting fujoshis by animating scenes like this, 
Look at that small scene and honestly tell me the people behind animating it never had it in their mind or had the intention to purposely get a reaction out of the fujoshis? If you don't see it then sorry I don't know what to tell you.
Implying I care if you buy what I say or not. I just want remind you to calm down and stop being so passive aggressive just because people don't share your opinion.
I never said or implied there's a only one "correct interpretation". Everything you quoted from the other thread is my opinion and the conclusion I've drawn from the scene. The staff baiting viewers by purposely being ambiguous during the supposed kiss scene is my opinion. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11352 |
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"We" is any and everyone who reads your post. And you still haven't answered the question, just elaborated further on what you meant. So I'll ask again in terms that perhaps you can understand: how was anyone who read your "Hah, I knew it." line supposed to guess that you meant what's taken you two additional posts to explain? How was anyone reading your post supposed to know who you were laughing at and what "it" referred to? Why didn't you just say clearly what you meant the first time? Also, I don't think "bait" and "passive-aggressive" mean what you think they mean, but since we've had problems communicating the meaning of words like "milking" to you before, I'm not surprised. I also know it's useless to convince you your definitions are different from the rest of the world's, so I won't go down that dead end again. |
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Stuart Smith
Posts: 1298 |
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I view that as a standard non-committal answer. Having that plausible deniability there goes a long way. I have to disagree on the notion that Japanese media doesn't portray relationships directly though. Most series I've seen that don't end in a cop-out ending where the author refuses to pair the MC up with anyone like certain harem series explicitly show love interests as married and sometimes with children or at least dating. -Stuart Smith |
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