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The List - 6 Japan-International Co-Productions Revisited

Anime is animation made in Japan, basically. Yeah, a lot of stuff can be farmed out to other countries, like what the United States does.

We can argue about this forever.

Think the safe bet to say, is if it broadcasts with the Japanese anime seasons, then it can be considered anime.

Well, yelling only makes you right if you're a Presidential Candidate these days. If there were no common visual style, how would you know "anime when I see it"? That says there is a predominant visual style that you apparently recognize as representative of anime.

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FloozyGod wrote:

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Why is this random, barely contributing post that contained only buzzword (or meme) is still left standing even after a report was made?

Hiroki not Takuya wrote:

@ relyat08... If there were no common visual style, how would you know "anime when I see it"? That says there is a predominant visual style that you apparently recognize as representative of anime.

Well wise guy, tell me what the common visual style is between Heidi and K-On! What makes Heidi as much anime as K-On! ? Or what is the visual common style between Don Chuck Monogatari and Dirty Pair ? Someone already said it, there is no visual common style in Japanese animation. The only sensible criteria for determining what is and isn't anime is a purely geographical one : a cartoon that is produced in Japan. As simple as that.

My response is that what has been called anime encompasses several recognizable styles in art and storytelling technique that makes it distinctive form other animations from around the world, making the question of origin irrelevant and that relying on style to answer the question is more "inclusive" . If you can't recognize or don't accept what the general public (Google, artbooks, etc.) does about that, I can't say more.

I still think Kira from Seed shouldn't be in the poll because they were never called Newtypes in Seed or Seed Destiny, they were called Coordinators.

relyat08 wrote:

... ANIME IS NOT A STYLE...

..
I mentioned that there were several styles ...

Jose Cruz wrote:

Anime is a weird thing actually. For other media, for instance, videogames or live action films, people don't care if it's Japanese or not (nobody cares that Metal Gear Solid 5 is Japanese while The Witcher 3 is Polish, or that Kurosawa's movies are Japanese while Kubrick's movies are American) but in animation, people really do care if it's Japanese or not. I think the reason is that in the west animation has always been in the age and genre ghetto where you are not supposed to take anything that's animated seriously. While in Japan it's common to see characters speaking seriously and showing emotions such as anger, aggression, sexual attraction, virility, sadness, depression, etc. That's pretty much impossible in the animation made in the west.

This pretty much sums it up. The reason people have pissing contests in the first place is because the American industry has been in the ghetto for decades now. It's the exact same thing with comic books. Before the CCA there were tons of different genres and styles of comics but that single act pretty much killed them outside of superhero stuff and the industry never recovered.

That's not what you first responded with to me. You are changing your argument. Now it's not one style it's multiple styles? Nice, at least we're making progress. Furthermore, you literally agreed with Selipse right after disagree with my comment when we were literally making the exact same point: Anime is not a style, it is an amalgamation of many many styles.
And like I said before, the shows that don't look like your original "anime style" are not the exceptions, they are the majority. I can make you a list with hundreds of anime, if you want.

Had to emphasize your last point here because using the general public's definition of "what is anime" is ridiculous. Not to be super elitist or anything, but this is an ultra niche medium of entertainment that is not very well understood by people outside of it, and not very well understood by probably the majority of casual fans either. As people watch more anime and see more styles that's when they realize that this "anime style" isn't really a thing. That anime is, once again, an amalgamation of many styles.

Hiroki not Takuya wrote:

relyat08 wrote: ... ANIME IS NOT A STYLE... .. I mentioned that there were several styles ...

That's my first response with emphasis. Nothing has changed. Selipse said the same thing. Him/Her I understand but I'm not sure you do. They were clear and agree that there are stylistic differentiators between anime and "cartoons" but didn't believe anime should be completely defined or limited by them. I agree with this too, anime evolves. Your point is that there are no style differentiators at all, you try to say something like "no two anime look alike" out of the 800 or so you've seen, and that isn't what I read them saying from their post.

I think at the end of the day it's kinda ridiculous to draw lines in the sand. You can't say it's based on art, because it can vary, and even what is the trend for animation in anime changes. Saying the staff has to be "pure-blooded Japanese" is well, ridiculous. Can you imagine anyone getting as uptight about french animation as some people do anime? "I only watch french animation, called frenchimation, and don't you dare call it cartoons. Oh wait, the director was actually Japanese, dropping this show." At the end of the day we all like what are essentially animated foreign films, sometimes in short form television programs, and sometimes motion pictures. Animation frees you of the limits of filming reality and allows you to abstract details, allowing for various new storytelling techniques. I mean I know a lot of people think "cartoon" is a dirty word, but I mean... why? Does it have to be anime because it sounds cooler and more socially acceptable, like when comic books were calling themselves "graphic novels?"

I just like good movies, and I tend to particularly enjoy Japanese animated films. Who cares about what you call it. I'll watch any movie about anything from anywhere if it's good. Yes, even if I have to call it a cartoon because it's from somewhere else.

I've had this conversation with a lot of others in my anime club so I will admit personal bias, but I do feel that it qualifies as an anime even though it is a puppet show. I mean, when you consider medium in the mix, does CG count as anime? And if only hand drawn animation counts, then all shows past the mid-2000s no longer qualify. It's an interesting idea.

Anime has to be PRIMARILY produced in Japan, PRIMARILY for a Japanese audience. I raised this issue about a year ago with Batman Gotham Knight. It should have a "U.S." tag on it since the executive directors, producers and are American. Toshi Hiruma is American, contrary to popular belief, albeit of Japanese roots. The only anime thing about it were the lip flaps and those were done in English before it was done in Japanese.

Conversely, Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt I view as non-anime as the art style I believe obviously borrows from American animated shows like Kim Possible and Jimmy Neutron, a feature not lost on several commentators.

In my mind, 'anime' is basically an appellation/geographical indication, like Champagne or all the ones that go with whisky. Yes, you can have American Champagne-style wine, and Japanese styles of alcoholic beverages that are very similar to or inspired by whisky. But those are not Champagne, and not Whisky.

I for one don't subscribe to calling something "anime" to be cool or indicate something is cool, being half-way to an otaku (whatever that is...) I care not for social acceptance. Anime as a style is vastly different than the art styles of American animations like Disney or Hanna-Barbera, which people of earlier generations called "cartoons", so I wouldn't use the terms interchangeably.

What makes something anime is somewhat subjective these days, I guess. I know anime when I see it, and it's really hard to put into words exactly what it is that makes something anime. Being made entirely in Japan isn't a necessity, as many anime have a lot of outsourcing, being directed by a Japanese person isn't a necessity, because some anime have foreign direction, being made for Japanese people is definitely not essential, and finally, and most importantly ANIME IS NOT A STYLE. People who say this seem to have a limited understanding of what anime is and looks like. Tekkon Kinkreet does not look anything like K-ON!, Kaiba does not look anything like Fate/Zero, Steins;Gate does not look anything like Mononoke, Panty and Stocking does not look anything like Asterisk War. For me, I think what it comes down to generally is whether or not it was primarily produced by a Japanese animation studio. Where they got the money, who the original creator is, and who they hired to actually make it, isn't as important. But hey, that's just my definition. Though the whole "anime style" thing is just objectively wrong.

Am I the only one thinking Avatar's animation style is more in the vein of older Disney animation than Japanese?

I'm a longtime avid anime consumer myself, and I never saw the "anime" style in Avatar's designs.

Anime is a weird thing actually. For other media, for instance, videogames or live action films, people don't care if it's Japanese or not (nobody cares that Metal Gear Solid 5 is Japanese while The Witcher 3 is Polish, or that Kurosawa's movies are Japanese while Kubrick's movies are American) but in animation, people really do care if it's Japanese or not.

DrXL wrote:

I've had this conversation with a lot of others in my anime club so I will admit personal bias, but I do feel that it qualifies as an anime even though it is a puppet show. I mean, when you consider medium in the mix, does CG count as anime? And if only hand drawn animation counts, then all shows past the mid-2000s no longer qualify. It's an interesting idea.

They're drawn on tablets and touch screen monitors now, but they are still drawn by hand.

Are they colored digitally though? Anime nowadays has that really clean look that only digital animation could do.