Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Dragon Ball Super
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GhostD
Posts: 1000 |
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*cough*Yamcha*cough* ...Then again he's not really a fighter anymore anyway... Still it is a tad disappointing to see Krillin knocked off early but I can at least look forward to seeing the saiyan ladies in action especially Cauli SSJ2 vs Goku SSJ2 |
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#844391
Posts: 517 |
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Ep 100 (damn, somehow it doesn't feel like the series has been that long, probably because the first 2 arcs were already done as movies).
So, Super Kale didn't disappoint, I was glad to see broly flashbacks with her destroying everything until Jiren stepped in. Although I was surprised she was able to brush off Super Saiyen blue as well. Granted, Jiren should have an overwhelming advantage over Goku (given that he easily took out Kale who was overpowering Goku) but I'm guessing we'll see Goku pull out his next transformation after getting slapped around a bit. Overall, really good episode. |
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Punch Drunk Marc
Posts: 1742 |
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I liked Caulifla and Kale this episode. Caulifla has probably become my favorite character introduced in the series in a while. I've long since stopped caring about how saiyans turn Super since Kid Trunks and Goten just did by thinking hard enough in the Buu Saga in Z.
Caulifla is attracted to power, we saw it when she wanted Cabba to teach her how to turn Super Saiyan before the torunament. So it makes sense to me that she would ask Goku to ask her how to go to the next level during their fight. |
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nagpo
Posts: 133 |
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"Everything with Kale before her transformation is weird and gross—when she's not being crybaby jealous over Caulifla she's being held down and punched repeatedly in the gut by some no-names"
I'll never understand Sam's criticisms... Why is it weird and gross? Why? Can you actually give a reason other than your feelings? |
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Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
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It introduces the berserker form while allowing it to be used later on. I mean, it probably wouldn't work to just have her form going around for episodes, it'd probably cause too many eliminations too quickly or just result in an everyone vs Kale match. This sort of gives the rest of the fighters a taste of her real power, as well as giving the audience some time to see her in action, but if Jiren just knocked her out of the tournament in only one episode, and still relatively early on in the tournament, then all that time spent building her up in earlier episodes and promoting her in advertising would be a far greater waste. This way berserker Kale can make a comeback later on, possibly even working as character development if by the third time Kale manages some better control over that form. Also, this episode helped Caulifla figure out how to do super saiyan 2 more regularly, plus the tournament still progressed since we got like 6 or 7 eliminations in one episode, the most amount after the episode where universe 9 was wiped out. |
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2862 |
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since sayaka ohara in umineko, I don't rememebr listening to a voice actor who sounded like she was having so much fun while doing her work, that's my favorite part about caulifla. |
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bleachj0j
 Posts: 923 |
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So Kale's Legendary form is everything annoying about actual Broly in one go. Only it's worse because show once again can't be consistent in it's writing.
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Valjean Lafitte
Posts: 62 |
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I can't pretend to answer for Sam, but as someone who felt the exact same way... Not only is it kind of gross--no, idiotic--to have Kale's infatuation with her "sister" be the trigger for her super saiyan transformation (male saiyan transform with anger, female saiyan transform with... jealousy!), the fact that she just can't cope with the sight of Caulifla ignoring her while she fights a man is just annoying. I mean, how the hell do they deal with that going forward? Just not have Caulifla fight anyone ever? Also, as Sam sort of noted in his review: these Saiyans and their super transformations? They used to seem cool. There's nothing cool about what is possibly the strongest Saiyan being a protege who lets herself get beat up constantly and only unleashes her beast mode when mean, horrible men try to take her beloved master away for like, two minutes. Literally nothing. |
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Pipoko
Posts: 165 |
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I'm actually also feeling like the reviews sometimes don't explain why the reviewer feels the way he does. Why exactly Kale was a problem is kind of confusing. Just her motivation of her missing confidence/feeling useless and her being beaten up? Why exactly is that gross and wierd? It wasn't sexualized or gendered. If anything, Super's done a good job at letting the female characters fight without any fanservice or falling back to girl fights.
There's hints about the U6 Saiyans being different and there's also established that SSJ Blue is all about Ki control, but the review actually puts it well, that the problem is that the limits are kept so undefined - probably because it's just as much of an headache for the writers. I'd actually say the problem here is how vague Super Saiyan Blue's power is and how little it has been explained, just a few more lines could probably fix a lot of things (same goes for the U6 Saiyans being different from U7 Saiyans). It happened with Krillin and 17, too. Both took a Super Saiyan Blue Kamehameha, but have vastly different levels of power. So it takes you out of the scene when on the immidate impression it seems odd, even if there is an explanation if you think about it. In the actual tournament it's just not sparring, either, which allowed that part of the story feel fine. There's also elements like not being allowed to kill in the ring and Goku needing to conserve his energy, so it's much more vague. It makes sense if you think about it, but these elements haven't been established with enough confidence. I stopped caring about power scaling when Goku gained Super Saiyan levels of strength in 6 days in-universe (it also helps that the character writing around Blue in the recruitment arc in general was solid enough and worked), but I guess I can see why people would still be bothered by it on the basic level. I actually really like Caulifla's personality, though and Kale has potential for character development with the repeated idea that Caulifla has faith in her and that she could learn to control her power. It would make for a cool moment and actually better than what the nonsense with the original Broly was. I take self-doubt/confidence issues over that motivation. Edit: Ah, okay, I see what the gross/wierd thing might be in there. I wasn't thinking of it in that way. Depends on where it goes, I guess. |
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Sam Leach
 Posts: 53 |
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It's not gender stuff that bothers me, (Kale would probably still be jealous if Caulifla fought another woman) it's that watching a wimpy person who talks like a baby get violently thrashed is weird to me. Like, I get that they want to make you uncomfortable, but to what end? I want to like Kale but a lot of her personality is one note and kind of inhuman. Up until her transformation Kale is a crybaby. Okay, fine. That's not gonna make her anyone's favorite but it's to offset how badass she is transformed, but in the middle of her crying she gets violently beaten for thirty seconds, so now she's an annoying character who has to get saved. Top that off with the fact that her transformation trigger is as shallow as the original Broly, only it has to happen in the middle of a million other things in the tournament, so the episode just feels like a big headache. It's not offensive, but it's weird and I don't know what we're supposed to latch onto here. |
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Pipoko
Posts: 165 |
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Ah, okay. I can see that. Caulifla was given enough facets to her personality so she doesn't really feel like that. Right now, Kale is pretty basic, so it depends on her characterization from here on out. I think a little bit backstory on why she's so attached to Caulifla or why she's so unconfident could help, the actual idea behind her is... basically Gohan's character, down to a sort of "Chosen One" status, and that can work and be satisfying. Cabba's transformation kind of had the same effect, too. It was such a minor thing compared to what Goku (or even Trunks) went through to achieve the form. Even Gohan's rage boosts as a kid are a little more significant. There's also a question of why Kale hasn't transformed before this, but that's a question about all the U6 Saiyans if it's so easy for these 3 (would be nice of the story to explain that in a clearly-defined way). Also while at it they could finally give Jiren a personality. Yeah probably won't truly happen until Goku and him fight, but aside from being a powerhouse he's dull right now. |
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Ethe
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Thankfully Kale has become more tolerable after episode 101.
Seems like next episode Universe 2 will finally get the spotlight. Looking forward to what those three magical girls will bring to the table. I hope the universes no one cares about, like U3 and U10, get erased soon Sorry Gowasu. |
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Pipoko
Posts: 165 |
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There we go. That was the way I guessed it would go and I'm happy it did. All you need to do is to give a character a direction. Kale's transformation is even the most effective among the U6 Saiyans because she actually saw someone she cared about being hurt, except this time around she actually wanted to get stronger and fight. Explains all the situations she was put in, too. It was appropriate set-up and felt rewarding because of the prior scenes.
...and her controlled form looks really cool. DBS is good shounen fun. |
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sharkjack
Posts: 43 |
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Even though 101 was really solid all around, it also left me frustrated on some fronts, because a few minor details could've made it even better.
First, when 18 throws the weight guy, I would've loved for him to stop just in time, only to get hit by another one of her casual blasts. 18 is 'ruthless' (really more like practical) like that, and it would be a great pay off for how she blasted him in the back earlier. Then we have Kale getting locked in the dimension, and getting out with a Vanilla super saiyan blast. This would've made perfect sense if we had gotten any notion that erecting multiple dimensions at once was more tiring. Like at that same moment Goku and 18 are banging on the larger bubble, so a little inner monologue about how keeping that outer one up was sapping her strength, some sweat drops, that would've gone a long way. Finally having her be eliminated by 18 while in her bubble felt cheap. I'd have much preferred her to drop her barrier after everyone left, only to be caught off guard by the 18's lack of an energy reading. That would've made 18 look smart and her opponent less incompetent. Kale really is a victim of poor execution. The idea for her is great on paper. Initially her jealousy spurs her into rage, but since she does not acknowledge her own feelings spurring on her jealousy she loses herself to the anger. This time she does acknowledge herself, and as much as it hurts, the pain is hers. Hence she doesn't loose control. But that kind of leap in emotional growth should have room to breathe, situations to allow for smaller changes in attitude over time. As with Caulifla potentially going SS3 within 48 minutes of first consiously going SS2, the lack of time between moments in the tournament really hurts what they can get away with on the show. The odd thing is, they could've chosen totally different rules. Like they could've done a multi tiered tournament where initially all universes are present, then after X number of participants are eliminated, the 4 with the most members remaining continue, or any other number of tourney settings that allow for time between matches to heal, train and readjust strategy. I am fine with the setting they chose, but it is just odd to me that 4 episodes into the tournament we've already seen them run into most of the biggest issues with this setup, and reap very few of the rewards. |
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casualfan
Posts: 333 |
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Kale's super saiyan is not just about jealousy. It's both jealousy and rage. Jealousy and rage are inseparable as someone's who's jealous would usually be filled with anger so it makes perfect sense that Kale could turn into super saiyan through jealousy. It makes a lot more sense than the whole tingly-feeling technique. If anything it's Caulifla's transformation that makes zero sense with the tingly-feeling stuff.
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