×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Dragon Ball Super


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:42 am Reply with quote
casualfan wrote:
Kale's super saiyan is not just about jealousy. It's both jealousy and rage. Jealousy and rage are inseparable as someone's who's jealous would usually be filled with anger so it makes perfect sense that Kale could turn into super saiyan through jealousy. It makes a lot more sense than the whole tingly-feeling technique. If anything it's Caulifla's transformation that makes zero sense with the tingly-feeling stuff.

I'm pretty sure it's due to the fact that they're from a different universe. Universe 6 Saiyans aren't exactly the same as Universe 7 Saiyans. I have a feeling that this will become an issue later on down the line. Unless I'm wrong about the whole thing, which is possible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
casualfan



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 333
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:12 am Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
casualfan wrote:
Kale's super saiyan is not just about jealousy. It's both jealousy and rage. Jealousy and rage are inseparable as someone's who's jealous would usually be filled with anger so it makes perfect sense that Kale could turn into super saiyan through jealousy. It makes a lot more sense than the whole tingly-feeling technique. If anything it's Caulifla's transformation that makes zero sense with the tingly-feeling stuff.

I'm pretty sure it's due to the fact that they're from a different universe. Universe 6 Saiyans aren't exactly the same as Universe 7 Saiyans. I have a feeling that this will become an issue later on down the line. Unless I'm wrong about the whole thing, which is possible.


They already explained that u6 saiyans have evolved to the point they don't need tails. (although evolution means survival of the fittest and a tail means they can turn into a super-power gorilla which should be an additional advantage when it comes to survival so it's a stupid set-up) But if that's supposed to mean tingly-feeling is enough to make you a super saiyan, it begs the question why cabba and caulifla can turn to ssj easily with just the tingly-feeling but not so with caulifla.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CycloneJoker



Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:45 pm Reply with quote
casualfan wrote:
Kale's super saiyan is not just about jealousy. It's both jealousy and rage. Jealousy and rage are inseparable as someone's who's jealous would usually be filled with anger so it makes perfect sense that Kale could turn into super saiyan through jealousy. It makes a lot more sense than the whole tingly-feeling technique. If anything it's Caulifla's transformation that makes zero sense with the tingly-feeling stuff.


That's really only the case if we're operating on the assumption that SSJ is truly legendary and a prophecy that must be fulfilled, but since like 90% of the remaining U7 Saiyans and U6 Siayans we've seen on screen can do it, it seems far more likely, to me at least, that it was always an ability Saiyans could access through a biological trigger, the knowledge of which was simply lost to time and it became a legend. On the U7 side, this was possibly due to their refusal to mingle outside their race and evolve, keeping their power levels relatively low. While the U6 Saiyans did mingle, it could also be the case that any knowledge they had was also lost in the mixing of the cultures, though there may be other explanations, as Cabba claims to have never heard the form before. Unless they evolved so much sooner that even knowledge of knowledge of the form was lost.

Cabba and Caulifla's 'tingly-feeling' is likely the sensation of channelling ki into an area of the back that triggers the transformation. The in-universe reason for us never hearing about this would likely be due to the fact that Goku is an idiot and couldn't teach it any other way than how he learned (through emotion, also, not enough SSJs at the time to corroborate the feeling which, as of last episode, we know Goku and likely the rest of the U7 Saiyans also feel), Vegeta being a spartan instructor who would force his students to earn the form the same way he did (see Cabba), and F-Gohan, who in the past might have taught it more simply, but needed Trunks to gain a survival instinct, given the state of their world. Cabba, being a more cerebral and overall mellow person, is happy to teach Caulifla and Kale to consciously channel ki into the trigger, rather than hoping they can do it instinctively through emotion as he learned.

casualfan wrote:
They already explained that u6 saiyans have evolved to the point they don't need tails. (although evolution means survival of the fittest and a tail means they can turn into a super-power gorilla which should be an additional advantage when it comes to survival so it's a stupid set-up) But if that's supposed to mean tingly-feeling is enough to make you a super saiyan, it begs the question why cabba and caulifla can turn to ssj easily with just the tingly-feeling but not so with caulifla.


We've probably long past a point where simply having a higher base power level from better breeding and access to less bulky and unwieldy forms are better for survival than a Giant Ape form. As for Kale's difficulty to transform, it could simply be that she isn;t as adept at ki control as Cabba and Caulifla and needs the instinct of emotion to help her. She strikes me as someone who hasn't had as much battle experience as the other two anyway, so it's not entirely impossible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WatcherZer



Joined: 29 Dec 2016
Posts: 266
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:58 pm Reply with quote
Put it this way you see something scary and you tense up, the adrenaline starts pumping and you get the fight or flight instinct. You can replicate that consciously tensing your muscles and stressing your mind but ones conscious thought and the others animal instinct.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
#844391



Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 517
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:00 am Reply with quote
Ep 102,

Ugh, I feel dumber after watching that episode, the only saving grace was number 17. I actually laughed when 17 blasted those girls in the middle of transforming. Biggest trope in anime, no one ever attacks when the other side is transforming/powering up. It's funny that everyone asks why 17 interrupted the transformation considering the last time they didn't stop someone from transforming (cell) both 17 and 18 ended up getting absorbed, I'm surprised they didn't bring that up.

Although I know it's never going to happen, I really wish Goku would actually lose specifically because he constantly lets his opponents get stronger, and even encourages them to. Needs to be some consequences to making dumb decisions (Although we kind of already saw that in the cell arc I guess).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3629
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:15 pm Reply with quote
I couldn't keep from laughing when they restarted the transformation sequence to quotes of "From there?!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:51 pm Reply with quote
I wonder which universe will fall next? I'm thinking either 3 or 4.

I actually don't want all the universes to survive. I don't really see 10 or especially 9 bearing any narrative developments, and really they could stand to cut down the number of characters. I would want 7, 6 and 11 to survive at least, as those offer the most interesting future battles and whatnot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:33 pm Reply with quote
zrnz: This isn't about battles. It's about restoring balance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Shaterri



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 173
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:35 pm Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
Zeino wrote:
So who here also thinks that the Grand Priest and his Angel Children (minus Whis) are going to be the ultimate final villains of Super?

Well, people that smirk when a Universe is snuffed out of existence generally aren't considered good people. There is *definitely* something going on behind-the-scenes, but what it is we probably won't learn about for a while yet. I honestly think they have something in mind for Goku, but again I'm not sure what that might be. I'm not sure if the angels are villains, but the sure seem suspicious.


I'm also in the 'angels as final villains of this arc' camp, incidentally - my guess is that they'll actually interrupt either a Goku vs. Jiren or Goku vs. Kale fight to leave one or both of those 'on hold'. Another argument in favor of them: there was very distinct phrasing a few episodes back around 'no one of us is more powerful than Zen-Oh'; it was very definitely not 'Zen-Oh is more powerful than all of us combined'...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:20 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
zrnz: This isn't about battles. It's about restoring balance.


I'd say it's both. Goku only suggested the tournament so that he could fight strong beings (from other universes) as he is wont. Zen-Oh and company just decided to use that for the purge they were already planning. I do think the characters from the other universes especially the Saiyans of Universe 6 bring more to the story than "I wonder who would win in a fight? Goku or ___?", but battles are a significant part of the series' plot. They definitely need to cut down some of the universes so they don't have an unwieldy amount of characters, a number of whom aren't terribly interesting on their own.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5113
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:47 am Reply with quote
Ep 102 was hilarious. Playing with magical girl tropes was fun, and 17 is so much fun to watch-great, dry sense of humor, dynamic fighter, doesn't play by the rules. I'm still waiting for him & 18 to have a full on tag team fight, though.
Ep 103 It would have been much more effective dramatically if Gohan would have seen the locket before he knocked the last fighter of Universe 10 out of the ring. Give him a moment to hesitate, maybe even apologize. Noticing the locket afterwards just makes him feel guilti(er--he probably feels a bit guilty already).
I'm also with the "angels are the real enemies" camp. I don't think they've given us a compelling enough reason why they need to wipe universes out of existence. Portraying the Zen-Ohs as child like makes it seem that they don't completely realize the implications of their actions and are easily manipulated by "wiser" advisers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ethe





PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:28 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
I'm also with the "angels are the real enemies" camp. I don't think they've given us a compelling enough reason why they need to wipe universes out of existence. Portraying the Zen-Ohs as child like makes it seem that they don't completely realize the implications of their actions and are easily manipulated by "wiser" advisers.


I too believe the angels manipulate Zeno, but I don't think they are evil per se. My hunch tells me that they try to moderate/restrain how much damage he causes.

To me, rather than not realizing the implications of his actions, Zeno simply does not care. When he sets his mind on destroying something, it's impossible to stop him. If I had to guess, when Zeno said that "there are too many universes", the Grand Priest knew he couldn't stop him from destroying them, but he managed to sway and persuade him to erase just the universes with the lowest mortal levels, as that would be better than erasing universes at random (something that a being like Zeno would totally do).

Of course this is just a theory of mine Razz
Back to top
#844391



Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 517
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:25 pm Reply with quote
Ep 104,

So, super saiyan god is weaker than blue? I always thought God was like the ultimate full power form (considering it takes multiple super saiyans to activate it) and blue was like the diet-soda version, since he could do it alone. Did they actually explain any of this earlier in the series?

Also, I'm wondering why none of the other pride troopers jumped in to help. Toppo said himself that they're fighting for survival, so taking out the top fighters of two universes at once would seem to be something worth using all their strongest fighters for, not to mention avoiding losing one of their team members.

But then again this is dragon ball, we all know it's going to be a jiren vs goku fight at the end so not much point in nit picking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sajuukkhar





PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:43 pm Reply with quote
#844391 wrote:
Ep 104,

So, super saiyan god is weaker than blue? I always thought God was like the ultimate full power form (considering it takes multiple super saiyans to activate it) and blue was like the diet-soda version, since he could do it alone. Did they actually explain any of this earlier in the series?

Also, I'm wondering why none of the other pride troopers jumped in to help. Toppo said himself that they're fighting for survival, so taking out the top fighters of two universes at once would seem to be something worth using all their strongest fighters for, not to mention avoiding losing one of their team members.

But then again this is dragon ball, we all know it's going to be a jiren vs goku fight at the end so not much point in nit picking.

They explained this all the way back in the Battle of Gods movie/arc.

When Goku went god, he gained incredible power, but when his god form ran out, he still retained a large portion of that power, which is why he was still able to fight Beerus while he was just a SS1, even though SS1 was not even a fly compared to Beerus before.

After the Battle of Gods arc, Goku's base was basically red, since he kept most of that power.

Going God at this point gives him a farm saller boost then going blue does, since he had already absorbed most of the red power.
Back to top
#844391



Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 517
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:00 pm Reply with quote
ok, i do remember it stating he kept some of the god power and thought that was where blue came from and it was a scaled down version of god. apparently i wasnt the only one confused as i found several videos and forum posts explaining in detail. cleared up now.

but that leads to another question, if god is more power efficient than blue, why is this the first time he's used it? He's used blue a couple times in the tournament already but this is the first time he's used god. seems like a giant leap to be fighting in his normal form most of the time, and then suddenly powering up the blue on a couple occasions while completely skipping all the steps in between like god.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 23 of 40

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group