Forum - View topicSome things on anime couples.
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4074 |
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Oh, it's not him. Whether manga or Super, the cash cow Dragon Ball is Goku so no matter would could happen, it'll always reset. It doesn't matter what the creator wanted during the main series run... "Gohan? More like go again" said his editor... or how Super seems to be getting sarcastic about it; "You want Goku, I'll give you Gokus." It wouldn't surprise me to see this vaunted other world tournament thing turn into Goku vs. Best fighter of every universe? Well, who else would it be? But yes, relationships are not the main point of shonen so they're usually last minute after thoughts for clueless main heroes; Even Fullmetal Alchemist suffered from this, though not so much Al as he had his own problems. And as for romance series, they are the main point and as such, usually held off until every single possible chapter/book/episode has been released and then, surprise!, half the audience or more goes "Ohh @#%!, no way that works!" It doesn't matter the series, it's universal and repeating. Sure, there are series that manage to reach the "Now what?" or "What's next?" stage but considering what passes for drama, they can get a little mean spirited. |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4828 |
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Oh, I strongly disagree. EdwardxWinry were clear-cut from the beginning. The main issue with romance in shounen series that involve big battles is that, if the love interest isn't a fighter, she will stay on the sidelines because the MC wants her out of harm's way. And she has to wait until the Big Bad is conquered so they can date (or marry) peacefully. In FMA's case, this was no "last-minute random hook-up to please the fans" since there was nothing "random" about it. It was more like a fiancee waiting for her love to return home from the war. Akira Toriyama on the other hand, cannot write romance to save his soul. 
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Raftina
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On the subject of poorly written battle shounen couples...
I find it somewhat bizarre that despite not really having anything approaching a well-written romance, battle shounens tend to attract very fervent shippers who engage in shipping wars (and produce a lot of fanfictions, fanart, and cosplay). As Gatherum noted, romance in battle shounens tend to be an afterthought, an element between a main character and a side character that the author uses to check a box after the real subject of the series--the battle--is done. What is even more bizarre is the degree to which shippers would go to exaggerate the importance of the flimsy evidence that exists in canon to support a ship. Even little look, touch, and locked gaze is seized upon as proof that the pair is destined to be together, even though these interactions are just everyday happenings or a part of a battle sequence--typically merely the male holding the female after a particularly powerful attack. Reading these posts, you would think that the pair is just filled to the brim with unresolved sexual tension, just waiting for the chance passionately kiss each other and jump into bed together, when they are usually perfectly comfortable with each other as battle comrades or friends. What is even stranger is the way shippers following battle shounens seem to manufacture a pairing out of essentially nothing. If you looked back dozens of chapters--or sometimes even volumes--you might find a single cute moment with the pair together, a single moment of mutual frankness that could have just as easily been interpreted as friendship. These shippers seem to never go of the ship they manufactured out of that one moment, regardless of how far the ship has already sunk from obvious alternatives that the author is building up (poorly, but usually with more evidence in support than the fabricated pairing). Unsurprisingly, even volume brings more disappointment, as the author is content to leave the alleged couple as friends who had a particularly cute moment a long time ago--if the author even remembers it. The worst of the lot are probably the yaoi shippers. Yes, these being battle shounens where the male protagonist tend to share the same passion with at least one other, the male-male relationship tend to be much better developed than the male-female relationship. But two male characters can be perfectly close to each other, understand each other, care for each others' well being, and fight together without wanting to dart off at the first possible moment to get their marriage certificates. And these being battle focused books meant for young boys in a conservative society, it is highly unlikely that the male protagonist would end up with another male, no matter how much they care for each other. The odd and dedicated shipping that occurs around battle shounen simply baffles me. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I think you're looking at this the wrong way, Raftina.
Shonen stories typically involve male teenagers, often in excellent health. Many MCs are also passionate folks. Often, they are in life or death situations. Now, in RL, what do you suppose happens to the male psyche when all (or even just most of) the above is true? If hot girls are around, baby booms happen. That's how human biology (and psychology) works. There not being some amount of romance in such situations is *abnormal*, almost inhumanly strange. This leads those watching to naturally seek to fill this bizarre lack of romantic relationships -- this odd sort of emotional vacuum that flies against normal human expectations. If the author/storyteller doesn't supply the necessary relationships, then the audience will do it instead. IMO, this is a *natural* result to an unnatural setup. Oda has stated that there won't be any (serious) romance in One Piece, but the idea of them spending all that time together, repeatedly getting into life or death situations, depending entirely on one another, having fun together, winning and losing together, and there *not* being any sort of romantic relationships formed is just... it is impossible for me to suspend my disbelief enough to accept that, and it is, for me, the biggest hit against the series that I have. It's incredibly off-putting. Anyway, I don't hold it against people for doing speculative shipping. It seems like a natural thing for people to do. I do think that some folks take their shipping too far sometimes, but that's about my only complaint about it. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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We shippers DO get excited over any type of physical touching...but that doesn't mean we're all delusional. 
See, there is the type who ship because they've convinced themselves it's canon and there's the type who ship simply because they like the idea of it and don't care if it remains non-canon. Say there was a delicious food or drink you liked and the company suddenly stopped producing it. You'll still remember how much you liked it, right? It's not possible to stop liking it even though it can never exist again. Such is my feels towards the IchigoxRukia ship. lol |
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Cam0
 Posts: 4888 |
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But... Ichigo x Rukia never existed in the first place. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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That's not the point of shipping, Cam0.
A ship by definition is the preference or support of simply wanting two characters together or imagining them together in a "what-if" scenario. Here, we can take a look at the different types of ships in Toradora Canon ship (paired together by official creator: spoiler[TaigaxRyuuji] Ship Tease (the pairing is not official but gets moments/seems evident they like each other) spoiler[RyuujixMinori] One-sided ship (the feelings are not mutual) spoiler[RyuujixAmi] Completely fan-made ship (otherwise known as crack) RyuujixKitamura A ship doesn't have to be canon for it to exist. A good deal of them are fans' imagination (misinterpreting the author's intentions) Or they may be impossible ideas.This is why cross-universe ships are born; a type I absolutely NEVER got into.................until I ran into Jelsa online, saw a whole bunch of fanart, thought about it, and gasped, "THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING IDEA EVER". 
The thing that causes all the fights is that sometimes (many times) the lines between "ship tease" and "fan-made only ship" will seem (subjectively) blurred....and IchigoxRukia shippers are the result of this. Like, a girl giving a boy a lap pillow is positively a ship tease because it's what couples do, it's romantic, it's a major cliche in love comedies; so when Rukia did this for Ichigo in the anime, all of us freaked out. |
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louis6578
 Posts: 1861 |
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I think it's pretty obvious that Ichigo was originally meant to end up with Rukia. Something must have happened down the line, but we all know that Kubo is no genius writer and probably had little to no intention to let Bleach go for as long as it did. This was probably just a show of him getting fed up with it.
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Cam0
Posts: 4888 |
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I know, but I guess I thought your analogy made it seem like Ichigo x Rukia existed at some point.
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9835 Location: Virginia |
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@Chiibi
Before I came to the ANN forums, I had never heard of shipping. It took me awhile to figure out what people were fussing about. While I think I understand what you are saying, on an emotional level it makes no sense to me. I read books and watch shows to see the fiction someone has provided for me. Basically something isn't on the page or on the screen, it doesn't exist. While I have seen entertainment that I wished would continue beyond the end of the book or show, it never occurred to me to try to imagine or write an extension. If I thought I could write better than the original author I'd write my own books. While I don't see anything wrong with shipping, I don't understand the appeal. Why fixate on what goes on off screen or after a show is over? With the exception of those shows where "everyone dies" every book or show can end with "life goes on". There are always new books to read and new shows to watch. Why worry about what you didn't see in the last one you watched? |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I would imagine that with an ounce of emotional attachment comes a certain lust for closure by the tonne. If two characters of whom one is fond could, in principle, become enamoured by subsequent, extra-narrational events, a certain fantasy is catered to by imagining how this would manifest. This fantasy becomes doubly vivid if inconsequential hints, or other events that could be mistaken as such, are provided within the source material. The viewer feels almost taunted into running with the ball, even if the original pass was unintentional. I admit, impulses of this nature may diminish once one comes to accept the limits to one's preferred stories, but they are certainly understandable. Some of the best character writing, it would seem, introduces and endears fictional entities to us in a similar manner to how friendships arise in reality: we spend idle time with these characters to see them for who they are, and seemingly for their own sake, rather than merely for their roles in wider affairs. One can be forgiven, I hope, for yearning to know what happens to these simulated friends. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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Because it does exist as an idea, it's just not canon. @Alan45 Zin5ki's explained it much better than I ever could.
There has been a lot of speculation on why shipping has become so important to others. But I don't really have an answer for this one. Some think it's because you can live out your ideal romance through characters....but I don't think that's the case for everybody either..... Last edited by Chiibi on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9835 Location: Virginia |
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@Zin5ki
I realized the impulse exists, I just personally don't understand it. Any emotional attachment I have to fictional characters usually lasts only until I pick up the next book or start the next show. Possibly 5 to 10 minutes unless a meal intervenes. That is what the author is for. If he wants to continue the story fine, if not I've got others to read. It doesn't help that once the show is over, reality creeps in. Much of anime involves high school age characters. My general impression is that at that age people are incapable of making a decision as to a life long relationship. All such pairings should be considered temporary except by accident. Further, really distinctive characters are likely to be hard to live with long term. I wouldn't want to try to live with any of the girls in Toradora, though it might have been fun for a few months. Just as I have little emotional attachment to fictional characters, I have no attachments to actors, singers and other celebrities outside their official duties. I pay no attention to their lives outside what I see on the screen. Their private lives are their own. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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Well, a lot of people don't. Isn't that okay?
Damn, but you're cynical.
Disney characters are SELDOM older....but nobody predicts the princess and prince will get divorced after marriage. We are led to believe they'll live a lifetime of happiness together. Why would anime characters be different?
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9835 Location: Virginia |
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Chiibi wrote:
I have no problem with people shipping any fictional character. I just thought I should bring another viewpoint out.
I suppose you could characterize it that way. I would say I'm realistic and not very romantic. I don't believe in love at first sight nor do I believe in unrequited love. The first is simply an attraction that happens to work out and the second is a crush that verges on stalker like obsession. Both are more likely related to lust than to love. To me love is something that you build based on extensive time spent in each other's company*. I haven't seen a Disney cartoon, with the exception of Fantasia, since some time in the 1950s. I should point out that that most were based on fairy tales which date back to when most marriages were arranged and had nothing to do with romance or love. You looked elsewhere for that. Unless you had an in with the Pope, divorce was not an option.
Because most of the anime under discussion is set in modern times and realistic settings. While fantasy anime does occasionally have some romance, they usually involve modern people with modern attitudes. *I've been married to my wife since 1973. First marriage for both of us. We are still married, still in love and still each other's best friend. |
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