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EP. REVIEW: Descending Stories: Shōwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjū


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Parsifal24





PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:12 pm Reply with quote
yeah the whole spoiler[implied incest] between Konatsu and Yakumo in episode twelve left me so aghast I actually dropped the series' ranking on MAL from 10 to 8.

I made the series and honorable mention after having it ranked at number two on my Best of The Winter List where Interviews With Monster Girls has now became my number two,

Honestly that whole part of it is almost impossible for me to ignore and marred what could have been a fantastic last episode also no Konatsu Rakugo that bothered me because Yuu Kobayashi gave the best performance of this season and instead Konatsu just gets a mention.

Man I wanted to see an older Konatsu do some Rakugo so the unpleasant parts involving paternity combined with a kind of lip service to Konatsu's inclusion in the world of Rakugo really just killed what ever enthusiasm I had for the series. that being said I still think it is a masterpiece but a very deeply flawed masterpiece.

Which is good because a series can have glaring problems and still be masterfully told or have wonderful directorial or artistic elements divorced from the obvious writing missteps.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:15 pm Reply with quote
I'm not terribly bothered by Shin's parentage and rumors thereof, though had it been made clear, my opinion would be different.

I had already started missing this show while I was watching the finale, and I will continue to miss it. This is a series I have no qualms calling a masterpiece and as long as stuff like this is made, I will say of this medium what Yota said of Rakugo, "something this good could never go away".
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portgas



Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 66
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:19 pm Reply with quote
A surprise but not really. I missed it. In hindsight, there were a couple of scenes which raised an eyebrow but there was nothing to add to them. The first was the scene with Konatsu napping on the futon and Yakumo next to her. I found that unusual. There was an implication of more in their relationship but only that. The second was more a case of overselling an idea- the shot of Shin's eyes and then that of the Boss. Was that necessary? Maybe if you want to misdirect.

Yakumo was Konatsu's guardian not her father and he really didn't act like one. I think this is overinterpretation of the relationship. In fact, the relationships are the point here. The triangle of the first season is reinterpreted and completed with Shin in the second.

Loved all of this. I was disappointed by the opening of the second season but it really delivered.
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FackuIkari



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Posts: 411
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:49 pm Reply with quote
I really think it was just Higuchi making shit up to make Konatsu confess what really happened so yeah, I'm gonna stick with that.

Anime of the Season, most likely Anime of the Year and enters my personal Top 10 of All Time. Thank you Rakugo, I'll miss you
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Kiddo626



Joined: 24 Nov 2015
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:13 pm Reply with quote
Personal theories about Shin's father aside, did anyone else find it weird that Shin's personality was so drastically different in this episode? I mean, for the entire series, little Shin was presented as this outgoing, extroverted, charismatic boy who effortlessly charmed everyone he interacted with. But adult Shin has none of those characteristics; he's now quiet, nervous, almost neurotic looking, absolutely nothing like the kid we've seen in the previous episodes. Yeah, kids change as they grow up, but it's like he did a complete 180. Even Konatsu kept some of her childhood personality traits. It makes me feel like Kumota radically changed his character just to shoehorn the "Kiku-Suke" symbolism in there, and I'm not sure how to feel about that. Confused
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portgas



Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 66
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Parsifal24 wrote:

...Man I wanted to see an older Konatsu do some Rakugo ...


I did too but I maybe it was felt to be too diverting or there was no time. Maybe they'll be an OAV.

I find it disappointing that so many people cannot reconcile this paternity thing. Part of me wants to scream "It's an adult relationship, you may not like it, but it is part of the story and an important one". And if you think it doesn't fit in thematically, then maybe your theme is wrong.
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Chrysostomus



Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:53 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
He seems extremely uncomfortable around women in general, much less in a sexual context[...]
Umm, did you miss the part in Japanese Purgatory where Sukeroku showed him the geishas and Yakumo was all looking excited and blushing?

Also the toppest of lols at Konatsu and Yakumo having sex. Can we please stop pretending this is some sort of "progressive" and/or "feminist" work? The women in this show make the most bizarre decisions.

Man, talk about crashing and burning at the very last minute. And what the hell was that with Matsuda-san being miraculously alive? I feel cheated after that amazing send-off.
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Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:14 pm Reply with quote
Two things about the Shinigami performance.

One, I think somebody on tumblr pointed out that the "transfer the flame to the other candle before it goes out" part seems symbolic of Yakumo passing the fire from his candle to Yotaro (and arguably Konatsu) before his own life went out to keep Rakugo alive. Also shows why in the episode of his death the opening theme showed a candle being lit.

Secondly. I think Yotaro changed the ending of the story. Every time Yakumo performed Shinigami, it ended with the character dying. Which is neat. Same with the rebuilt theater, preserving the past but changing it enough for it to survive (I assume the new theater is less of an earthquake and fire hazard).
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Roxas4ever



Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:18 pm Reply with quote
I already wrote up a response to this episode on Tumblr, which can be found here: http://leavesofmaple.tumblr.com/post/158856234274

To summarize it: I hate spoiler[Kikuhiko as Shinnosuke's father] on a moral level, but I think it does contribute to the story on a thematic level. In the end, I'm not convinced it's the truth, but I also agree that there is a lot of evidence in favor of it. I think the author leaves it ambiguous on purpose. Was it the best decision to drop it in the story at the last minute? No, but it doesn't completely ruin everything either.
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1410
Location: End of the World
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Kiddo626 wrote:
Personal theories about Shin's father aside, did anyone else find it weird that Shin's personality was so drastically different in this episode? I mean, for the entire series, little Shin was presented as this outgoing, extroverted, charismatic boy who effortlessly charmed everyone he interacted with. But adult Shin has none of those characteristics; he's now quiet, nervous, almost neurotic looking, absolutely nothing like the kid we've seen in the previous episodes. Yeah, kids change as they grow up, but it's like he did a complete 180. Even Konatsu kept some of her childhood personality traits. It makes me feel like Kumota radically changed his character just to shoehorn the "Kiku-Suke" symbolism in there, and I'm not sure how to feel about that. Confused


Gonna be honest, i didn't find it that strange. I can empathize with Shin's personality change because i had something like this happening to me. The change between my 5y/14y self and my 20 year old self is so drastic that once a cousin, that lives on the other end of the country, came up to me and asked me why i was so different from when i was a child. Laughing He was all "did something happen?" xD
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Chocoreto



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 105
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:08 pm Reply with quote
Funny how the reviewer could always draw the most spot-on conclusions during the course of this show about its plot points, character interactions and straight up symbolism, but was unable due to personal bias to recognize the elephant in this room. Unfortunately, things like that should be looked at more professionally and objectively, even though it's very hard to do when one is so emotionally invested somewhere.

It does not matter at all that it is not straight up confirmed by another character. When you look at Shinnosuke, both his face and his mannerisms, it says "KIKUHIKO" all over. Hell he literally even takes the name! This is what the show wants you to get from it! There would be no point to bring that up otherwise, unless Konatsu straight up denied it in order to reject some doubts or theories. But she doesn't do that. Instead she reinforces it, saying that she might have been in love with Yakumo, and suddenly, so many things finally make sense in so many scenes, from the very first episodes of the series! There is NO room for doubt here for the audience!

This does not ruin the series in any way, because even if it leaves a bitter taste for some people for some reasons, it is NOT bad narratively. It just forces you to re-contextualize everything in Yakumo and Konatsu's relationship up until this point. We all just assumed it was father-daughter, and maybe there was a side of that too, but this is not Usagi Drop.

So much shit has gone through between those characters. Konatsu NEVER, ever thought of Yakumo as her father. She wasn't that little when Yakumo took her in, she was already taking care of herself and was very conscious about her family status and Sukeroku being her dad. And I'm pretty sure Yakumo never changed her diapers or did much aside from providing her a house to live in and some rules to abide by, effectively raising her in his way. Their relationship was always anything other but cozy, it was agressive at best and distant at worst.

Instead of bitching, the reviewer could have just tried to analyze the reasons why this should have happened, why would Konatsu feel drawn to Yakumo and why would Yakumo let her have her way - most probably because the last time he didn't let Miyokichi have her way, all hell broke loose? There are millions of reasons for Konatsu - a father substitute, Electra's syndrome, the only person in her life, idolization about Rakugo, revenge, "you took all I had away from me so now you have to pay me back and give yourself to me", and so on. Is it fucked up? Yes it is. It is very fucked up, but it can be explained.

I understand why some might feel betrayed, because the show played us up and led us to believe in father-daughter relationship, in order to reverse everything in the end. But, did it really? Or did we just assume that way due to our cultural background, maybe?

For me it was a brilliant plot twist that left me gaping before nodding my head in understanding "oh so this is how it was". And yes it is poetic to have a child with both Yakumo's and Sukeroku's blood, but saying it reduces Konatsu to a mere vessel for those two, means ignoring her entire existence and character conflict through the series. So no, it freaking doesn't.

I repeat, Shinnosuke is Yakumo's child and there is no room for doubt about that. This should be even more obvious when rewatching the series.
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1410
Location: End of the World
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:12 pm Reply with quote
Chocoreto wrote:
Funny how the reviewer could always draw the most spot-on conclusions during the course of this show about its plot points, character interactions and straight up symbolism, but was unable due to personal bias to recognize the elephant in this room. Unfortunately, things like that should be looked at more professionally and objectively, even though it's very hard to do when one is so emotionally invested somewhere.

It does not matter at all that it is not straight up confirmed by another character. When you look at Shinnosuke, both his face and his mannerisms, it says "KIKUHIKO" all over. Hell he literally even takes the name! This is what the show wants you to get from it! There would be no point to bring that up otherwise, unless Konatsu straight up denied it in order to reject some doubts or theories. But she doesn't do that. Instead she reinforces it, saying that she might have been in love with Yakumo, and suddenly, so many things finally make sense in so many scenes, from the very first episodes of the series! There is NO room for doubt here for the audience!

This does not ruin the series in any way, because even if it leaves a bitter taste for some people for some reasons, it is NOT bad narratively. It just forces you to re-contextualize everything in Yakumo and Konatsu's relationship up until this point. We all just assumed it was father-daughter, and maybe there was a side of that too, but this is not Usagi Drop.

So much shit has gone through between those characters. Konatsu NEVER, ever thought of Yakumo as her father. She wasn't that little when Yakumo took her in, she was already taking care of herself and was very conscious about her family status and Sukeroku being her dad. And I'm pretty sure Yakumo never changed her diapers or did much aside from providing her a house to live in and some rules to abide by, effectively raising her in his way. Their relationship was always anything other but cozy, it was agressive at best and distant at worst.

Instead of bitching, the reviewer could have just tried to analyze the reasons why this should have happened, why would Konatsu feel drawn to Yakumo and why would Yakumo let her have her way - most probably because the last time he didn't let Miyokichi have her way, all hell broke loose? There are millions of reasons for Konatsu - a father substitute, Electra's syndrome, the only person in her life, idolization about Rakugo, revenge, "you took all I had away from me so now you have to pay me back and give yourself to me", and so on. Is it fucked up? Yes it is. It is very fucked up, but it can be explained.

I understand why some might feel betrayed, because the show played us up and led us to believe in father-daughter relationship, in order to reverse everything in the end. But, did it really? Or did we just assume that way due to our cultural background, maybe?

For me it was a brilliant plot twist that left me gaping before nodding my head in understanding "oh so this is how it was". And yes it is poetic to have a child with both Yakumo's and Sukeroku's blood, but saying it reduces Konatsu to a mere vessel for those two, means ignoring her entire existence and character conflict through the series. So no, it freaking doesn't.

I repeat, Shinnosuke is Yakumo's child and there is no room for doubt about that. This should be even more obvious when rewatching the series.


I too, don't really have a problem with this. That scene only left me thinking "This is fuc*** up beyond belief but now i want to see what Shin's Rakugo will evolve into." I legit want a season 3 dedicated to Shin now xD
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5315
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:16 pm Reply with quote
I feel that the show should of ended the episode before, or at the very least this episode should of been set not so long after it.
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captainbanana



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:19 pm Reply with quote
I agree with the review. Bringing up the issue of his parentage with zero time left to explore it was pointless. All it did was leave a lot of us with a bad taste in our mouths. That was compounded by arguments people were making elsewhere about how it's not really incest because of this, or that, or the other thing. If it happened it was incest plain and simple. I also agree with the reviewer that 100% confirmation would have ruined the series for me while the ambiguity only puts a dark cloud over the end of it.

I thought I'd never get spoiler[Usagi Drop'd] again but here we are.
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AnimusPrime



Joined: 15 Feb 2015
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:05 pm Reply with quote
Gabriella, thank you for your eloquent perspective on Rakugo's finale. As a male anime fan, it's easy to see the "reveal" from an incomplete perspective. Any justification I can come up with now just rings hollow. I love the show, but, you're right, the prospect of a Yakumo x Konatsu pairing is creepyAF and completely uncharacteristic of both characters.

At the time I was watching it, I remember just being blown away by the plot twist, and being impressed by the series as a whole, as far as portraying its characters as very complex individuals. And appreciating that. But as you said, reducing both Shinnosuke to a character with both Yakumo's and Sukeroku's blood, and Konatsu as a vessel for that purpose, was a huge disservice.

I will continue to believe The Boss is Shinnosuke's dad, and that Higuchi is just an inappropriate fanboy. Even though Shinnosuke looks just like Yakumo.... AAARGH
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