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ANNCast (Video) - Scum As You Are


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Chiibi



Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4187
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:59 pm Reply with quote
I only have my memories....but nothing was ever "implied' in Sailor Moon; it was blatant. Same for Utena.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:22 am Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
This has been confirmed by the creator of the show.
That's just it, isn't it? It's always confirmed by the creator because they can't show it in the show proper. That's nothing new, it's been going on since the 90s. As someone who's old enough to witness American animation since the 80s, it's odd to see someone say it takes risks these days. The industry has dialed back considerably over the decades. Action animation is all but gone, and boundries are a lot more strict than they used to be. Disney movies decades ago were far less squeamish about things like blood or sexual content, yet today they're extremely sterile and safe. If your definition of risk taking is a creator saying something behind the scenes, then perhaps more overt displays found in anime might not register with you.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2940
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:12 am Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
This has been confirmed by the creator of the show.
That's just it, isn't it? It's always confirmed by the creator because they can't show it in the show proper. That's nothing new, it's been going on since the 90s. As someone who's old enough to witness American animation since the 80s, it's odd to see someone say it takes risks these days. The industry has dialed back considerably over the decades. Action animation is all but gone, and boundries are a lot more strict than they used to be. Disney movies decades ago were far less squeamish about things like blood or sexual content, yet today they're extremely sterile and safe. If your definition of risk taking is a creator saying something behind the scenes, then perhaps more overt displays found in anime might not register with you.


Well it's clearly shown in the show. There have been several episodes showing Ruby and Sapphire embracing, kissing, talking about each other as a couple and Garnet sings a song about how the two parts of her have a relationship that "is stable" and can't be stopped by those who take offense to it. The only reason I brought up the creator confirming it is because some particularly obtuse people try to claim that it doesn't count because they are aliens.

And as far as blood and sex, I'm sorry but that's not the standard we are going by here. If it were, then hentai would be the epitome of the art form. Hentai is fine, and some of my earliest exposure to anime was hentai so I have no problems with it, but I'm talking about larger concepts and the problem with anime is its repetitiveness and inability to take risks in how it uses themes and concepts. Hentai suffers from a lot of the same issues, just in a different way.
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Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:39 am Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
Disney movies decades ago were far less squeamish about things like blood or sexual content...


Disney movies had blood and sexual content? Wow, I clearly was watching the wrong titles.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2940
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:03 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Stuart Smith wrote:
Disney movies decades ago were far less squeamish about things like blood or sexual content...


Disney movies had blood and sexual content? Wow, I clearly was watching the wrong titles.


Rofl. I don't recall them showing blood. I think Mr. Smith was exaggerating there. Sexual content, there was a little bit but only in like one or two movies max. The Great Mouse Detective's "Miss Kitty Mouse" scene where Basil and Watson go to a strip tease show is probably the best example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2IctxaCPqw

That kind of stuff was really just a sign of the times as the 80s was very experimental in animation. I talked earlier about Don Bluth, I don't think it was a coincidence that The Great Mouse Detective came out after he left Disney and made the darker movies that he was making, such as Secret of Nimh which also featured mice and DID have blood and swearing.


P.S. I love that clip though. When the title of the song is "Let Me Be Good To You" and you see an innocent looking girl in frumpy clothes coming onto the stage, you know somethings about to go down Smile
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Chiibi



Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4187
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:13 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Stuart Smith wrote:
Disney movies decades ago were far less squeamish about things like blood or sexual content...


Disney movies had blood and sexual content? Wow, I clearly was watching the wrong titles.


LOL they are mostly minor or subtle but....yeah, they're in there.

Blood: Gaston stabs the Beast, Simba scratches Shenzi on the cheek, Ursula gets stabbed by a harpoon, etc.

Sexual content: Hunchback of Notre Dame's Frollo lusting after Esmeralda is the biggest one that everyone thinks of....but there's also stuff in Hercules, Tarzan, Lilo and Stitch, etc.

When I say "stuff", I'm mostly talking about questionable dialogue....but there's also actions the characters do in a "blink and you'll miss it" subtle way like Frollo sniffing Es's hair or Meg pulling down her dress strap while she's trying to seduce Herc.

You won't BELIEVE what goes over your head when you see these movies as a kid. Laughing When you rewatch them with an adult mind, you go "WHOA!! Did you just!?"

I advise to try it. It's fun. Laughing

Quote:
The Great Mouse Detective

BEST f*cking 2-D movie from the company; AND THEY JUST IGNORE IT COMPLETELY.
Twisted Evil
Basil is my waifu.
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Lord Oink



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 876
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:47 pm Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Even if I were to grant that those are both explicit examples in Anime , the conclusion would be that anime was once (decades ago) slightly more progressive on this issue with two shows, but has since had a massive backslide into the place it's in now (i.e. only implicit relationships that are mostly played for fetish or laughs)? That would be even worse in my opinion.


Nice way to spin it. People point out anime's been doing this stuff for decades and suddenly it's "Oh, you got to use an old show? Jeez, guess the pickings are slim~"

Quote:
The only reason I brought up the creator confirming it is because some particularly obtuse people try to claim that it doesn't count because they are aliens.


Well... it doesn't. Using stand-ins is one of the oldest censorship techniques. Can't tackle something like racism head on, so you use an alien or monster as an allegory Meanwhile they can talk about racism openly in anime if they want. It's a pretty juvenile way to write something. Championing a show about genderless rocks which never actually confirm anything as the best example of gay characters is a pretty weak example.
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