Forum - View topic

EP. REVIEW: Attack on Titan

You know what my country did during WW II? We rounded up a certain segment of our population and put them into camps, which they were not allowed to leave. These people had committed no crimes, but there they were. Only they weren't Jews, they were Americans of Japanese ancestry.

And, of course, in Germany, it wasn't just the Jews that were rounded up, all sorts of groups that the government labelled as "undesirables" were taken, and each group had their own special armbands.

In many countries, those of certain race or ethnicity were prohibited from going into certain areas or establishments. Throughout history, "the Other" has been used as a way to manipulate the populous.

And finally, in the case of AoT, one group of people has the ability to do something that other groups (apparently) do not: become titans. This has no basis in RL history at all, despite whatever rhetoric may have been used from time to time. But the means of isolating and manipulating a population is still the same as in RL, because all of the people depicted in AoT are human psychologically.

I don't think that the plight of the Eldians are supposed to be analogous to the Jews. The Marleyans do not, for example, appear intent on systematically exterminating all Eldians, but they do appear intent on using them politically and militarily.

The Eldian people in Marley are definitely being oppressed and treated as barely or less than human -- dehumanizing people is never a good thing -- but as I said they're not putting them in death camps. Not at the moment, anyway.

This is the problem. Where we are assuming that Isayama somehow wants to directly comment upon the Jews or the Nazis or the Japanese. He is not. He has taken inspiration from these things, yes. But he is also changing things to suit the theme of his story. This is fantasy/fiction. The Eldians are not literally the Jews/Japanese. Allegories and metaphors can only be taken so far. Stretch them and they will break. We need to just take them for what they are - an entirely fiction people known as the Eldians, with an entirely fictional history in an entirely fictional/fantasy world that does not exist in real life, despite how much inspiration it draws from real life. It is unreasonable to expect any creator to match up their made-up characters, people, landscapes, settings or plots 100% to real world incidents. Allegories are not required to be 100% accurate representations of the things they are based off.

How does anyone come to the conclusion that AoT could possibly be anti-semitic? If the Eldians are an obvious parallel to the Jews, they are clearly being portrayed as the victims here and not as bad people. The ones that have been systematically turning them into mindless, man-eating titans (against their will) are the Marleyans, so what part exactly of this story suggests that the Eldians are bad people or that they're the ones at fault? We already know that most (if not all) of the history told by the Marleyans is fabricated, so that doesn't count. I'm very confused.

I, on the other hand, find it refreshing. There are plenty of works that present the narrative of 'those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it', but we hardly see the downsides of 'remembering history too well' in fiction. What if guilt on one hand and a sense of entitlement arising from victimhood on the other get passed down the generations? Will it backfire at some point? Can history prevent us from engaging with those we consider as 'others' or 'aggressors'? History can be used as a propaganda tool, even without it being altered in any way. This could have much more pronounced outcomes in societies that have subscribed to the collectivist, not the individualistic mindset. (Just thinking of that Chinese table tennis player who flooded his hotel room in Japan 'to take revenge on the Japanese for WWII' - I know it's random.)

How does anyone come to the conclusion that AoT could possibly be anti-semitic? If the Eldians are an obvious parallel to the Jews, they are clearly being portrayed as the victims here and not as bad people. The ones that have been systematically turning them into mindless, man-eating titans (against their will) are the Marleyans, so what part exactly of this story suggests that the Eldians are bad people or that they're the ones at fault? We already know that most (if not all) of the history told by the Marleyans is fabricated, so that doesn't count. I'm very confused.

How does anyone come to the conclusion that AoT could possibly be anti-semitic?.

"Attack on titan is pro nazi" or whatever, yeah yeah, we went through this shit 3 years ago, what else is new

There was nothing anti semitic in it. The fact that the reviewer instantly drew that conclusion is a testament to the failing of the current generation that doesn't have a clue when it comes to history.

While I don't think AoT is preaching anti-Semitism, its creators ought to be aware of how poorly a comparison between the Jewish people and a race of super-powered cannibals could be received.

That's just a hypothetical scenario cooked up by people who like to pretend that the events of the past still have victims in the present and they don't want to do anything to fix it.

johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:

That's just a hypothetical scenario cooked up by people who like to pretend that the events of the past still have victims in the present and they don't want to do anything to fix it.

Did you leave out a word? If past events don't still have present victims (they do), why would anyone "pretend" they do to avoid fixing that? The only way I can parse that sentence as it stands ends up in ridiculous conspiracy theory territory.

And I've yet to see a single person say that they think the series is intentionally or convincingly anti-semitic. What I have seen is people discussing how they find the use of real-world genocide imagery in the context of a fantasy story in poor taste. Or explaining how the imagery, when mixed with the worldbuilding of AoT, can inadvertently lead to unfortunate implications that resemble real-world anti-semitic propaganda. Some folks seem to be doing some serious mental long-jumps to get to the conclusion that anyone criticizing (or heck, just discussing) the implications of the latest episode is actively condemning the story or its creator.

I will never turn down an opportunity to shut down the tiresome “They're just good friends!” argument.