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NEWS: Amazon's Anime Strike Announces Full Spring Lineup, Premiere Dates


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Melicans



Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 620
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:02 pm Reply with quote
ultimatemegax wrote:


Keep in mind the difference between Amazon licensing streaming rights worldwide to get a title's streams in Japan and Amazon US licensing streaming rights from a R1 licensor like Sentai or Aniplex of America. The former is much more expensive, but it's worldwide, and so the branches have only done that sparingly (NoitiminA, Bahamut). The latter is done relatively cheaper and pays Sentai directly for streaming rights to those titles in specific regions (technically US & Canada, but they ignore the latter).


So even though US&Canada rights typically come together, none of the series on Amazon are available to Canadians at all?
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4070
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:25 pm Reply with quote
... and no one thinks this is a reaction from Japanese companies of the Funi/CR "gentleman's agreement" from last year? Sentai has the connections and Amazon has the money but so does Funiroll. Some of these titles should have been pushovers for them as Japan likes fostering long lasting business partnerships...

#861208 wrote:
I doubt this will last long, because I feel like the producers will realize when their stuff is being pirated and choose to give it to Crunchyroll.


... but they also long memories of their material being pirated. This statement is so tone deaf it bears repeating as I laughed so very hard when I first read it. Yes, Japan will just give it to them.

When I first heard of this C/F deal, I called it the end of Sentai and for awhile, they were lost trying to find their own streaming platform with a new one each season; Ditto for AoA. I don't know what sort of deals CR gave them but it couldn't have been good because they started there.

Is this their final platform or will they move on next season? Well, that depends more on Japan now and we know how they feel about making anime "exclusive" and by that I mean expensive.
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ultimatemegax



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 412
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:49 pm Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:
ultimatemegax wrote:
Keep in mind the difference between Amazon licensing streaming rights worldwide to get a title's streams in Japan and Amazon US licensing streaming rights from a R1 licensor like Sentai or Aniplex of America. The former is much more expensive, but it's worldwide, and so the branches have only done that sparingly (NoitiminA, Bahamut). The latter is done relatively cheaper and pays Sentai directly for streaming rights to those titles in specific regions (technically US & Canada, but they ignore the latter). This means that if Sentai and/or Aniplex doesn't give them the titles, they'll only have 1-3 simulcasts in total.

A lot of the companies in Japan haven't given exclusive worldwide streaming rights to Amazon and the company isn't going to focus solely on anime (they've produced dramas, variety shows, and special effects shows just for that market), so I'm not too concerned at the moment. This would depend on the JP consumers adopting Amazon Prime as their streaming service, and we wouldn't be able to influence that at all.


Your number of simulcast agreements takes into assumption that Sentai acquired these shows without assistance from Amazon, and can chose where to stream them. It also completely disregards the possibility that Sentai in fact sublicensed these shows from Amazon. Without Sentai in the picture, it's entirely possible, and extremely likely that Amazon would have acquired these shows for Strike anyway, but they wouldn't have a confirmed home video distributor yet.

You do bring up a very important point about Amazon in Japan. Not only have they created specific content for that market, but they've also acquired a number of reruns of Japanese shows. It's also worth noting that some of the other Japanese shows were acquired from the same companies that are producing anime as well.


The reason why I assume that Sentai licensed titles without assistance from Amazon is based on sheer history of their company. They have licensed in every single season prior to this and sublicensed streaming rights to other companies. Why would that change all of a sudden? They have offered a few titles on home video where Netflix has licensed streaming rights, but they have announced that at a later date EVERY SINGLE TIME. You have offered exactly no proof at all that Amazon was involved outside of sublicensing. Other countries have licensed some of these same titles and are streaming them. How would that occur if Amazon licensed them given that every single title that Amazon has licensed outside of Japan is available for viewing in those regions ONLY from Amazon (Ronja, Nanoha)? It wouldn't. You say that it is "extremely likely" that Amazon would have licensed these titles from international rightsholders that Sentai has worked with previously (Kadokawa, TBS, Showgate) despite NO relationship with those companies in Japan from Amazon. Explain your thought process on how Amazon would get those titles directly and not Sentai.

I've given evidence that Amazon licenses directly when they can get streaming rights in Japan as that was the original deal with Fuji TV and for titles like Nanoha where they offer it exclusively in each region unlike these titles Sentai picked up. I believe that's more than enough for my assumption to be more accurate than somehow guessing a brand new theory with no evidence.

Melicans wrote:
ultimatemegax wrote:


Keep in mind the difference between Amazon licensing streaming rights worldwide to get a title's streams in Japan and Amazon US licensing streaming rights from a R1 licensor like Sentai or Aniplex of America. The former is much more expensive, but it's worldwide, and so the branches have only done that sparingly (NoitiminA, Bahamut). The latter is done relatively cheaper and pays Sentai directly for streaming rights to those titles in specific regions (technically US & Canada, but they ignore the latter).


So even though US&Canada rights typically come together, none of the series on Amazon are available to Canadians at all?

Apologies. I had heard that titles were not available in Canada. As I live in the US, I cannot check to be certain, but other people have said that titles like Nanoha are available there, so I am not sure about that.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:26 pm Reply with quote
@ultimategax

A couple things to note. First of all, when Sentai was simulcasting on both Hulu and Crunchyroll, they licensed a great number to series each season. When Hulu dumped their subscription model, the number of shows they licensed each season began to decrease. They went from licensing anywhere from 7-10 simulcasts a season, to a low point of two or three in recent seasons, and not recently exceeding four.

Not only did Sentai get hit by the loss of ad sharing revenue from Hulu, but they also got hit by the increase in licensing costs due to the bidding wars between them, CR, and Funimation. It seems unlikely that they all of a sudden have the financial resources to acquire at least seven shows from the current season, including some highly anticipated shows that were undoubtedly expensive. It would take a sizable amount of money to outbid the combined resources of Funimation and CR, and nothing in Sentai's history indicates that they have that ability without a streaming partner.

I'm not stating that Amazon licensed rights for these shows as a fact. I'm stating it as a possibility given Sentai's activities in previous seasons, and the fact that we know that Amazon did work to acquire rights for a few shows directly from Japan. However, I think it's a pretty safe conclusion that regardless of how the deal with Amazon is structured, they are definitely giving Sentai the means, perhaps by sublicensing or perhaps just by financial support, to acquire these shows.

Considering their push to grow both Prime and their new Anime Strike Channel, I doubt Amazon would offer Sentai a deal unless it included exclusive simulcasting rights for the shows. And in the case that Amazon was actively involved in the acquisitions, Sentai would have certainly had no choice. I don't think anyone can deny the fact that Amazon could have thrown around enough money to get these shows, with or without Sentai's involvement, where as Sentai certainly needed a partner to help with the financials of the deals.

Of course, just like your post, most of mine is just based on behavior we've witnessed from Sentai and Amazon, though I'm willing to bet that I have a bit more direct and indirect information on the matter than you do. But regardless, Sentai is notoriously tight lipped about their business arrangements, and baring a press release about the arrangement with Amazon, none of us will know more details, and it's quite unlikely that we will ever know the exact financing of the deal.

Amazon working with Sentai provides them with pretty much all of the advantages that Funimation offered to CR. They have their own scripting and translation staff. They have technical know how, and home video expertise in a very niche market. They also their own production facilities, and dubbing studios. Not to mention that if Amazon does choose to dub some of their titles, it's much cheaper to do so in Texas than LA, Canada, or New York. The fact of the matter is that Amazon may not have needed Sentai, but working with them is much quicker, easier, and cheaper than doing everything themselves, or subcontracting all the work out piece by piece.

But it's quite clear this season that something dramatically changed in Sentai's ability to acquire new licenses, and all current signs point to Amazon. However, it's also not out of the realm of possibilities that Sentai simply got a new millionaire investor, or that John Ledford hit the lottery somewhere. But if I were a betting man, I would bet on Amazon money.
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2457
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Hey, if you had a subscription already or were on the fence, the more titles the better.

Always look on the bright side of life, right?
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Melicans



Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 620
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:21 pm Reply with quote
ultimatemegax wrote:

Apologies. I had heard that titles were not available in Canada. As I live in the US, I cannot check to be certain, but other people have said that titles like Nanoha are available there, so I am not sure about that.


The reason I ask is that I'm not sure and can't seem to find out. I don't have Prime (never needed it before), and can't afford a new subscription for the anime just to see if they have it in my country or not. I hope someone can say definitively what the case is for Canadians.

On the other subject, I wouldn't be surprised if Sentai were the ones who approached Amazon and got their financial backing in exchange for giving them the streaming rights exclusive to North America (I wouldn't be surprised if some of the "exclusive" Strike announcements ended up on Crunchyroll for Europe, Asia, or Australasia). There's literally no details about if Sentai sublicensed streaming to Amazon, Amazon sublicensed home video to Sentai, or one of them approached the other suggesting they partner and split the rights. My gut inclination is the third, but that's all anyone has at this moment: a feeling.

Edit: Another thing - Funimation may have lost Rage of Bahamut this season to Amazon, but their partnership DID secure Attack on Titan and My Hero Academia, two huge franchises for them. If Amazon were going for AOT and MHA along with RoB, then it's quite conceivable that a larger-than-normal portion of the Funi/CR budget went to securing these two titles.
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darkdeath174



Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:07 pm Reply with quote
zendervai wrote:
I checked Canadian Amazon Prime. Nothing new's shown up there yet. I'm really hoping it isn't a stupid situation like they have streaming rights for North America...but they mean exclusive to Strike, period. I know Canada isn't a huge market, but we are a market. We aren't going to get Strike for years anyway, since we're way behind the curve for Amazon.

I do know that Amazon Prime hasn't really taken off in Canada (mostly because there's basically no advertising about anything aside from the free 2 day shipping) and I'm worried they're going to let it just wither and die up here.


We will be fine for Baha, Re:Creators and Saekano. As those are actual Amazon gets. Anything on there from Aniplex or Sentai, well, I have no idea how we will watch them.
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FlowerAiko



Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Posts: 218
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:25 pm Reply with quote
I wouldn't care much about Strike having this much content (competition can be healthy, and seeing that people were mad about CR video quality a bit ago, maybe competition will cause CR to step up their game) but the fact that their service is so inaccessible to majority of those who watch anime annoys me.

The double paywall results in roughly $200 a year for anime simulcasts which is totally absurd. There's no ad-based free version meaning pirating is the only alternate if you can't afford that. There isn't even a no-prime version of the subscription where you pay for Strike only.

If Amazon wanted to be essentially Netflix with more of an anime selection but no exclusives (maybe exclusive dubs or something) I'd be fine with that sort of price but the fact that they want to be seen as a simulcasting service as well makes zero sense with their current price or behavior.

I see this flopping or Anime Strike getting some serious renovations, but until then I'm still really saddened by this service and the fact that I cannot watch a lot of shows I had interest in legally. And international streaming was finally starting to get considered valuable by the anime producers back in good ol' Japan, too. :/
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Sachiko2010



Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:14 pm Reply with quote
Anime is starting to get a bit overextended with the pay services. At some point there will be diminishing returns and I'm assuming a correction will occur. I'm a Prime member but definitely not interested in spending $5 more for their add-on anime service (it's a matter of getting nickeled and dimed to death with this stuff), so I'll just wait for the blu-rays to come out in a year or two or three I guess. Just like the old days...
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smokeyjoey8



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 89
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:34 pm Reply with quote
I think this strong push toward anime (or attack on anime fans) is likely a reaction to their Noitamina deal. I think when they signed that deal and handed over all the money, they thought they were getting a surefire thing to really boost their Amazon Video platform to a new audience. What they didn't plan for was that Kabaneri would quickly turn to shit, and that the next show in the lineup was the absolute snooze fest, shit show Battery. I doubt very many people watched that, which must have been a huge blow to them. After that, they didn't even bother to offering The Great Passage in the US until after it was done airing, and pretty much took the season off while they tried to figure out how to make this deal worth it. Their solution to the problem was to basically create a new platform, charge even Prime members for it, and throw more money into their giant hole, hoping eventually it'll fill up. Until this Noitamina deal expires, we'll all be suffering.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:53 pm Reply with quote
@Sachiko2010 Whatever you think of Amazon's subscription policies, if anything in part due to Sentai going with Amazon, the streaming market, at least as pertains to (subbed) simulcasts, is as consolidated as it has been in some time. We're essentially left with two sites that get nearly all the simulcasts: CR/Funimation and Amazon/Sentai. Netflix only ever gets one show. TAN does have one show that hasn't been announced anywhere else (Rinne 3) but if it is like the prior seasons, CR will announce it near when it airs, so quite possibly no exclusive shows. Daisuki has nothing exclusive announced so far. Hulu is out of the simulcast game it seems after Sentai switched to Amazon. If you want everything (subbed), you likely will only need to pay for three services (not saying everyone can afford or wants but it shows the extent of fragmentation in the market), while not long ago, you would have had to have Crunchyroll, Funimation, Netflix, Amazon (without Strike) and Hulu or TAN to get everything (which I did have at one point). Dubbed content will add more subscriptions (well just Funi, but if one is looking to save money on that you could bundle CR and Funi with a VRV subscription), but overall there has been a good deal of consolidation going on.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6864
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:04 am Reply with quote
FlareKnight wrote:
Amazon is going to be the prime reason for the resurgence of fansub groups.

yuna49 wrote:
I just checked the download counts at a well-known anime torrenting site for a few of the later episodes of Shingeki no Bahamut Genesis from that famous "horrible" provider. They ran about 45,000 downloads per episode across the three video resolutions offered. Let's see what the numbers look like for this season.
I don't think Strike is going to cause a significant bump in those download numbers, or cause a resurgence for traditional fansubbing groups. Stream-rips from Amazon are already a thing, and as long as those rips are available, they're going to get re-encoded for viewing at various bootleg streaming sites, just like before. And since bootleg streaming is the preferred form of piracy for the vast majority of viewers these days, fansubbing or fan-editing groups won't have any incentive to increase their efforts in response to Sentai's/Amazon's actions, as it won't gain them any additional download counts or attention.

And I don't know if boycotting or otherwise putting the screws to Amazon will do much either, since Amazon apparently doesn't need to make money in the first place:
Quote:
Amazon, as best I can tell, is a charitable organization being run by elements of the investment community for the benefit of consumers. The shareholders put up the equity, and instead of owning a claim on a steady stream of fat profits, they get a claim on a mighty engine of consumer surplus. Amazon sells things to people at prices that seem impossible because it actually is impossible to make money that way.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:12 am Reply with quote
^On that last point, they have generally not made a profit (surprisingly for a public company as Wall Street generally doesn't go for that) preferring to plow any money into investing in growth, but more recently has turned a profit, largely due to Web Services.
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Jayhosh



Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 972
Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:22 am Reply with quote
Well that kind of sucks. I was looking forward to both Bahamaut and Re:Creators. But, as with Scum's Wish and Little Witch Academia last season, I'll find other means to watch them. Still though, the fact that increasingly more shows I'm actually interested in watching aren't streamed on Crunchyroll with every new season has made me start to question whether or not continuing to pay for the service is even worthwhile. I get that competition is a good thing for any industry, but the very least Amazon could do is not force people to pay for Prime on top of their anime service. Just seems excessive for the people who are only or mostly just interested in the anime.
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soulfringe



Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:54 am Reply with quote
I seem to be confused. Many of you posters seem upset about this streaming service? Is there some shady shenanigans I am unaware of? Or is this just entitlement crying about not wanting to shell out another $5 a month to support the anime industry?
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