Forum - View topicKADO - The Right Answer (TV).
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Funny you should say that, as I was reading the Ep. 0-3 review and the thought that crossed my mind when the reviewer mentioned realism is that an alien would pick Japan, one of the most insular, if not *the* most insular First World nation on the planet, as the starting point for his mission. Really, it's like Gate without the jingoistic military adventurism. At any rate, the review convinced me that this isn't a show I'd be interested in watching. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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Putting aside what some here are decrying as unrealistic international relations, I like the pace and detail that's been put into this show. It's so easy to argue that the United States and Russia would immediately threaten to drop nuclear bombs on Japan if they refused to cough up the WAM or engage in industrial espionage to steal one from the labs, but no one really wants to annoy or anger zaShunina and Kado since they have no clue what to expect in terms of retaliation.
Shindo is going to collapse if he doesn't get enough sleep, but 3 straight days running on adrenaline shows he's up for the task. I like the point when he asked to be fired from his post in the Foreign Ministry just so that he could engage his current position in a more neutral fashion. His nomination of Hanamori also appears to be another way to concentrate on his task at hand. At any rate last week's trailer more or less anticipated what's going to happen next week. Japan won't cough up WAM so everyone is cooperating together to force the country to hand it over, just like everyone here watching outside Asia has been clamouring for. I'm curious to see what zaShunina's plan is since he's nominated the intelligent but out of control scientist as a key figure for his scheme. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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It is hard to see what the plan could be to get around the UN. Countries can be good for unification, but many of them are dang flawed, and the desperation of the rich who are rich from oil and the like should probably not be ignored. I was thinking among other things the set of a way to use the legal system like setting up a patent or its own country.
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11348 |
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If one of them is enough to power the whole world, just give the UN a couple hundred of them to play with. zaShunina is still in Japan, and that's not changing unless he feels like moving. He'll just make more. I mean, as long as you have access to unlimited energy, it's patently unreasonable to complain that someone else has more unlimited energy.
And Yttrbio is right, the US would never ally with Russia and China over Japan on this issue, if for no other reason that they'd figure they could get a few from their good buddy Japan with a little arm twisting. The oil producing nations might squawk for a bit, but unlimited energy would benefit them as well, since we use oil for a lot of other things besides burning it, and it would make drilling operations and transportation cheaper. As I said before, the biggest bottleneck would be natural resources, since so many things would become cheap or virtually free, meaning more demand for things. There's also the global warming thing, which zaShunina hasn't addressed. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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Didn't zaShunina make it clear he wanted WAM to be given as a gift to humanity, not nations? He recognises countries as the construct that they are, but rejects the idea that giving it to the UN will necessarily benefit all of humanity because Shindo discouraged him. As far as I can tell, there has not been an equivalent example outside of anime where one nation gets an incredible gift of resources which is world-changing for viewers to compare the diplomatic shenanigans in this show with. As it happens, the United States IS one of the oil-producing nations who is squawking at this new power source that can replace existing power grids. Bilateral arm-twisting is not portrayed in this series, probably because the United States can negotiate all it wants from the Japanese government when the latter has almost no say in what zaShunina intends and has no intention of annoying the owner of a powerful extra-dimensional entity that has parked itself on Haneda's runway and is impervious to conventional weaponry. Oil will not be completely replaced since its use in chemical reactions in mass-industry remains unchanged by this development. It does mean demand for oil is lowered since power generation is taken off the list; cars still need petrol to run, planes still need aviation fuel; plastics and tarmac still need oil as a raw material etc. zaShunina might not have foreseen his new extra-dimensional power source isn't completely risk-free to use, but his ability to absorb new information should keep him up to speed. |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3652 |
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The fact that this exact situation has never actually happened is no reason to feign ignorance at the relationship between the U.S., Russia, China, and Japan. If the U.S. is afraid of pissing off ZaShunina, joining forces with Russia and China doesn't reduce that threat at all, it just introduces to "allies" it has to worry about being backstabbed by. Reducing oil dependency would cripple the economies of Iran and Russia, while the U.S. has an economy that is not as oil-dependent. There's no reason for the U.S. to be complaining about this new power source, aside from actual nonproliferation concerns.
The fact is, the show has demonstrated no recognition of the relation between Japan and the U.S. No discussions with American diplomats has taken place, no American involvement in Japanese military operations has been shown. The U.N. scenes treat the U.S. as "just another major power," no different from Japan's perspective than Russia or China. It feels like deliberate ignorance of the international order for the purpose of elevating Japan's role in the world. It's fine. It doesn't break the show, but it does sap a lot of the grounding from it. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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Fair points. Last I checked the US military presence in Japan is only strong in Okinawa, they don't really get involved much outside of the Ryukyu islands and have no mandate to intervene or cooperate with the JSDF if something like Kado happened in mainland Honshu (the opposite of American military involvement like in Ajin Season 2 for example). Military treaty with the United States dating back to WW2 specifies the USA will come to Japan's defence if its territory is under attack, since Kado hasn't done anything other than knock Haneda's runway out of commission while it calculates the removal of 281 passengers and a plane it's probably a stretch for the USA to suddenly jump in and claim interference for what is partly a domestic matter. Perhaps another reason why the animators have also taken this particular decision with respect to international relations is the focus on zaShunina vs. humanity as a whole. He's not dealing with countries so it would seem strange/unusual for one country to jump the queue ahead of everyone else to negotiate with the Japanese government which in itself is a reactive party in negotations. If United States diplomatic pressure was being portrayed in this film, then pressure from the PRC would also be forthcoming since the two countries despite tensions in recent years maintain huge trading links (Losing Haneda's runway for more than three days is HUGE for the airport's business, even if the runway services domestic flights only). Dispatching with the bilateral arc of diplomacy allows the animators to focus more on the story they would like to tell. Moot points really. One could go on about how movies from Hollywood have a blinkered view of world politics and simplify matters for the enjoyment of the audience etc. This is a show produced by Japanese animators, they're allowed to portray their country in the manner they see fit, viewers from outside be damned. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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The issue here is that the producers have destroyed most of the realness of the show by taking the tact they've taken; it's not about whether or not they could write the story however they wanted to write it. Obviously they can. But by doing this, people who do understand how international political and economic relations work in the real world are going to correctly think that this show shouldn't be taken seriously in the realism department. Once you stop taking it seriously, there's no point in arguing about whether or not the US would really do X, Y, or Z -- it becomes moot. It's not about whether the US and other nations take actions that they would take in real life, but that they take actions in ways that support the needs of the narrative. |
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xyz
Posts: 243 |
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Realistically the US would be there day one taking over the show. Why would I even want to see that? I want Shindou to run the show as he does now.
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3652 |
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Sure. Like I said, in the first 3 episodes, it was just a chuckle-worthy detail in a show set in Japan, where minimizing the influence of the US was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. It was an interesting show about how the Japanese government, this weird alien thing, and negotiator dude interacted, with built-in commentary about communication and institutions.
But now that they've introduced the United States as a relevant actor in the show, it's really asking us to ignore what we know about the world in order to keep up with the show, which takes the legs out from under the show as a commentary. It's now just another fantasy world, which loosely reflects the real one but is primarily driven by narrative needs, rather than creative speculation on human behavior. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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And that's a perfectly fine attitude to have. I'm only saying that if you take that kind of stance, then there's no point in arguing about whether the US or other nations would really do X, Y, or Z, because this show isn't about what might actually take place if an alien arrived who could give the world an unlimited supply of power. It's not about taking that scenario realistically. To give an example of what I am talking about: I think GitS *is* supposed to be a serious attempt to show what life might be like and what might happen if the tech it portrays became available -- we're supposed to take the scenario seriously, and it tries to address it in a (mostly) realistic manner. I will say that shows that attempt to do this are rare, and that it isn't easy to pull off. I was originally hoping that Kado would be this kind of show, but that doesn't seem to be the case. |
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xyz
Posts: 243 |
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I'm okay with fictional world politics. I'm not drawing any parallel to the real world. Just watching to see how the story unfolds. I like the fact that the US isn't emphasized here.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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Guess I don't have to read any more comments from viewers expecting ultra-realism from their anime shows when international relations rears its head. Usual action to take if shows don't meet expectations is to drop it and move on with life.
Animators clearly believe the United States doesn't treat Japan as a special partner of significance internationally and will happily vote to use UN Article 7 on it if it suits its interests or ostensibly those of humanity. Personally I can see where they're coming from since it wasn't that long ago when both countries were at war with each other. Erstwhile allies can also become enemies depending on circumstances, the reverse being true if something huge like infinite clean energy is at stake. Unrealistic as it seems to some viewers (who coincidentally enough are watching from the United States) perhaps it's a message from the animators on their views of the UN Permanent Members of the Security Council; rather than each nation acting it out on its own interests (say Russia with Syria) the 5 members will collectively act as a bloc as WAM is perceived the same way as nuclear weapons (which all 5 members possess and in public actively enforce non-proliferation). |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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#5
After watching this episode, I'm reminded of one incident in recent history which has a close parallel to the WAM in this series: cold fusion. Ultimately that turned out to be a hoax, but this series is presenting the science fiction equivalent and using the premise that this is a reality. A Hollywood film in the 1990s (I think it was the Saint with Val Kilmer) also had a similar plot which was ultimately resolved in a very similar manner to what transpired at the end of the episode. There are always implications when mankind is given a great gift yet lacks an overriding consensus on what to do with it. Much as I appreciate the Japanese Prime Minister's stance on this matter, it remains to be seen if this course of action really is the "right" one argued by Kado, who is driven almost entirely by pure logic. Unlimited power is neutral, it's what humans decide to do with it that is the problem. Interesting focus on hands in this episode; notably Tsukai who is engaged and Shinawa whose hands have effectively won her a Noble Prize. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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^ I think the movie you're thinking about is Chain Reaction with Keanu Reeves and Morgan Freeman in it. I could be wrong, though, as I only saw about 5 minutes of The Saint.
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