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EP. REVIEW: KADO - The Right Answer


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wolf10



Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 383
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:31 am Reply with quote
Shindo oversimplified the problem with the Wam when he made the lap to global warming. The real problem is that they violate the most basic principles of thermodynamics. All energy in the universe comes from somewhere else in the universe, maintaining thermal equilibrium. The Wam violate the first principle of thermodynamics (as far as we know so far), and allow energy to be added to this universe.

Oversimplifying here, but iff you want to compare it to solar power: the Sun emits radiation, which is converted by panels into electricity, which powers devices that emit heat, which is eventually emitted back out into space, and may even find its way to a star somewhere. No energy is explicitly created or destroyed. This goes along with what was said earlier about the ocean.

With the Wam, on the other hand, energy is introduced into the system and can presumably never leave it. Even if it leaves the device, it lingers in the city. If it leaves the city, it lingers around the Earth. Even if it leaves the Earth, we'd still technically be introducing new radiation into the vacuum of space that didn't originate from there (in other words, adding water to the Earth out of nowhere). Is it safe? Probably, but we can't actually know what will happen if the Wam are overused (or even can be), because such a thing is beyond the laws of our universe.
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starlightshine



Joined: 20 Nov 2016
Posts: 58
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:22 am Reply with quote
Everyone's giving intelligent answers and I'm just going to leave this here:

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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8720
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:55 pm Reply with quote
wolf10 wrote:
The Wam violate the first principle of thermodynamics (as far as we know so far), and allow energy to be added to this universe.

It just means the closed system of our universe is no longer closed.

Desa wrote:
Also, I agree that certain characters are a bit too anime-y, but to be fair it IS an anime, and with Japan being Japan some things just can't be helped. I have no problems with the male-female ratio though since it is realistic.

I don't think anyone was complaining about the m-f ratio, but rather that all the females there except Natsume act like children instead of professionals. I'd feel comfortable leaving negotiations in Shindo's hands, and the science in Mifune's. But Tsukai's or Shinawa's? Not so much.
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Desa



Joined: 07 Mar 2015
Posts: 254
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:13 am Reply with quote
@wolf10
Your entire post illustrates the EXACT thought process I was trying to debunk.

The Earth's atmosphere already retains as much heat AS IT POSSIBLY CAN. This is why climate is slowly destabilizing as ever more CO2 gets released into the atmosphere increasing the temperature, which in turn allows the air to hold more water vapor which in turn increases the temperature again which allows more water vapor to enter in an ever accelerating feedback loop. Immediately switching the world to WAM means sharply decreasing CO2 emissions which means a cooler planet in the following decades, not warmer.

Imagine the entire world's energy consumption over the course of TWENTY YEARS and that's how much energy the sun hits the Earth with in a SINGLE DAY. Even if all 7 billion of us decided to turn on our heaters, the total heat output couldn't come close to the total heat output of the sun's light constantly hitting the planet.
The WAM cannot endlessly release energy on their own. All energy must be drawn through human constructs, and as seen the WAM specifically produces electrical energy as opposed to pure heat.

And I cannot emphasize this point enough: Heat does not stay on the planet! The Earth will cool for the same reason your stove will cool when you turn it off. Energy seeks equilibrium. Without an atmosphere ALL heat will immediately radiate out into space, and this will remain true so long as space exists in a higher entropy state than the Earth.

Gina Szanboti wrote:
I don't think anyone was complaining about the m-f ratio, but rather that all the females there except Natsume act like children instead of professionals. I'd feel comfortable leaving negotiations in Shindo's hands, and the science in Mifune's. But Tsukai's or Shinawa's? Not so much.
That's basically what I was saying when I said certain characters were too "anime-y", and Japan being Japan. The female negotiator was basically as professional as one would expect while actually on the job (brief snickering aside), but some people behave differently when they're "off the clock" and I wouldn't necessarily fault that as "unprofessional", people are still human.

That scientist girl on the other hand, feels like she was pulled from some other anime series and plopped into this one. The incongruity in her character in relation to everyone else is impossible to ignore and I completely understand docking a few points based on that alone.


Last edited by Desa on Fri May 05, 2017 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
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Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 12:48 pm Reply with quote
Since we're going to be scientific here... heat transfer isn't as simple as some are making it seem, and atmospheric energy transfer is a pretty complicate thing.

Basically, though it is true that our atmosphere is what moderates heat transfer to and from the surface of the planet, different portions of the atmosphere do different things. For example, the ozone layer is in the stratosphere, not the troposphere (the layer closest to the surface). Most radiation absorption, then, occurs well above the surface of the Earth. Heat transfer requires molecules to come into contact with another to transfer energy. Also, the amount of energy transferred is based off of the difference of energy between molecules.

Anyway, what I'm saying here is that if something produces a lot of heat on the surface of the planet, it won't necessarily all be quickly radiated out into Space. If a WAM were connected to a device which radiated a lot of heat, that heat might remain close to the surface if, say, it were humid at that location as water vapor would absorb the heat.

Lastly, I should note that electrical currents produce heat. The greater the current, the more heat that is generated.

I suspect, though, that the WAM is a MacGuffin and that we're meant to focus on its plot significance as a source of energy that consumes no resources, not at how large amounts of heat energy might disrupt the heat balance of the planet.
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dash56



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 151
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:34 pm Reply with quote
Yeah I definitely don't like how they shot Tsukai's argument down. Humanity wouldn't be ready for such a thing. Yes the Wam isn't inherently evil, but it would be irresponsible to toss aside what people could do with such a thing.

How paranoid are governments going to be knowing anyone can now make their own Wam? What lines are they going to cross while justifying those actions with their own paranoia? That's not even taking into account the shock waves that would tear through the economies world wide.
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lebrel



Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:48 pm Reply with quote
If everybody in the show is going to make out the Wan as such an imminently dangerous technology, it would be nice if they could lay out some possible problems other than vague mentions of economic disruption or "terrorism".

There were a bunch of things that kind of bugged me about this episode, but the one I can't get out of my head is: why was Random Shirtless Military Guy randomly shirtless? I mean, teleologically I know the answer is "because girls", but in the context of the story they didn't bother to give it the slightest justification. And if there's going to be random unmotivated fanservice, I'd rather they bring back nekked glowing alien butt.

I'm also irritated by the fact that whenever any of the background characters needs to register any emotion, they overreact wildly.

But the irrational obstructionist Americans on the UN council were amusing. Smile
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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:50 pm Reply with quote
For an extradimensional being who doesn't like the idea of world governments controlling his gifts to the people, Cube Boy seems totally comfortable dealing exclusively with the Japanese government.
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dash56



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 151
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:55 pm Reply with quote
lebrel wrote:
But the irrational obstructionist Americans on the UN council were amusing. Smile


The American ambassador has a lot to worry about. Gun control's been a huge hot topic for a long time. Imagine how it's going to be now that there's a possibility of putting a Wam inside the palm of every citizen.
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Desa



Joined: 07 Mar 2015
Posts: 254
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:17 am Reply with quote
Saying "humanity" isn't ready for the Wam is bullsh|t. We've been ready for as long as humans have dreamed of the holy grail of electrical energy. You know who ISN'T ready? Big Oil.

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
Since we're going to be scientific here... heat transfer isn't as simple as some are making it seem, and atmospheric energy transfer is a pretty complicate thing.

The point is you don't have to understand everything about how energy flows to, from, and around the planet to understand what is and isn't possible. The point of all I said was to basically answer the question: Can usage of the Wam by humans artificially cause or exacerbate global warming? The answer is "No" and I've already explained why.

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
Heat transfer requires molecules to come into contact with another to transfer energy. Also, the amount of energy transferred is based off of the difference of energy between molecules.

Heat or energy transfer can occur even in near vacuums (like space). It is universally true no matter where you are that energy (heat) will always flow from a lower entropy state to a higher entropy state. Light (photons) is an example of energy being transferred from a source without contact with other matter.

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
Anyway, what I'm saying here is that if something produces a lot of heat on the surface of the planet, it won't necessarily all be quickly radiated out into Space. If a WAM were connected to a device which radiated a lot of heat, that heat might remain close to the surface if, say, it were humid at that location as water vapor would absorb the heat.

And what I'm saying is that humanity (even with an unlimited source of energy like the Wam) does not have a means of pumping more heat into the atmosphere than even a fraction of the amount of heat that goes from the Earth's surface back into outer space. Be realistic.

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
Lastly, I should note that electrical currents produce heat. The greater the current, the more heat that is generated.

What we call an "electric current" is the directed flow of energy between electrons. An electric current doesn't "produce" heat, it IS heat (energy). What you are most likely referring to when you say an electric current produces heat is the "waste heat" which is generated due to resistance. The greater the resistance, the greater the waste heat. Superconductors are materials which have virtually no resistance and therefore generate almost zero waste heat (zero energy loss during energy transfer).

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
I suspect, though, that the WAM is a MacGuffin and that we're meant to focus on its plot significance as a source of energy that consumes no resources, not at how large amounts of heat energy might disrupt the heat balance of the planet.

Yet the only "plausible" reason the show presents for opposition towards widespread usage of Wam cites some bogus connection to climate change and the heat balance of the planet which I've already debunked. The show still hasn't offered any compelling reasons as to why "humanity isn't ready", which again, I say is bullsh|t.

I mean, how would one go about "weaponizing" the Wam? Even if you could call down lightning like Zeus, all someone would need to do is ground themselves and all your power would do jack sh|t. You COULD make a kickass laser weapon in your garage but it's still not very practical.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8720
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:08 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Ever since the Wam were introduced, zaShunina has been adamant that the unlimited energy sources are a gift for all of humanity. ... The question now is why he has that goal in the first place.

Really, the more he insists that everyone must have it, the more the cynic in me is suspicious of his motives. I'm reminded of that Stargate episode where the aliens came and offered humanity their advanced medical tech, including an anti-aging vaccine for everyone, which had the side effect of sterilizing the population. So Trojans bearing gifts and all. Smile

But since I really don't think the series is setting up for that, I'm just enjoying watching them get around the heavy-handed control tactics of the world powers. I don't think it's realistic, but it's fun.
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lebrel



Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:21 am Reply with quote
dash56 wrote:
lebrel wrote:
But the irrational obstructionist Americans on the UN council were amusing. Smile


The American ambassador has a lot to worry about. Gun control's been a huge hot topic for a long time. Imagine how it's going to be now that there's a possibility of putting a Wam inside the palm of every citizen.


But what exactly is the threat there? If you had an infinitely powerful portable generator that fits in your pocket, how do you go about wreaking havoc with it? The Wan seem completely inert when not hooked into a circuit, and so far it seems they self-regulate energy output according to load, so you can't even use it to overload and short out the electrical system.

And I remembered the bit about this episode that drove me over the edge: why the hell does hyper scientist girl try to eat the alien? It just seems like they were desperate to come up with something quirky (like she wasn't anime-eccentric-scientist enough already). Although Shindo's deadpan response was funny, I grant you that.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8720
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:29 am Reply with quote
She was not nearly as obnoxious this episode, but that was pretty out there. I laughed at first because I thought she was trying to inflate the arm as if it were a balloon faking being his arm, but when he clarified she was trying to eat it, I just went wut? I've been saying she acts like a 5 year old, but now they've reduced her to an infant.
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Merida
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Joined: 21 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:12 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
She was not nearly as obnoxious this episode, but that was pretty out there. I laughed at first because I thought she was trying to inflate the arm as if it were a balloon faking being his arm, but when he clarified she was trying to eat it, I just went wut? I've been saying she acts like a 5 year old, but now they've reduced her to an infant.


But she's a genius who's gonna win a ton of nobel prizes~! Rolling Eyes Apparently one can't be a genius scientist and a functional human being...and a woman(!) in anime...

I agree with the previous commenters who are a bit tired of all the ominous "the Wam are dangerous, BAD things will happen if they get into the wrong hands" talk...either tell us what exactly is going to happen (aside from vague stuff like "more global warming"...) or shut up.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8720
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 4:19 am Reply with quote
Somehow I found it even more disturbing that she tried to eat his hand but not the Wam. To a normal person they look a lot tastier. The ones she got looked like chocolate truffles, while the ones they had earlier were more like spherical Jolly Ranchers.
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