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EP. REVIEW: KADO - The Right Answer


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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:11 pm Reply with quote
PumpkinMouse wrote:
Surely I can't be the only one who wondered if child labor was going to come back in a really bad way when zaShunina mentioned that children are the best suited for making Wam?

I'm not sure that it would. Being a child doesn't automatically mean you can make them, and it was said that one person who did it couldn't do it again, so any kids that didn't want to keep doing it could just say, "I can't do it anymore." And once they got tired of making them, they probably couldn't do it anymore.

Also it's not like they get used up. Once people get the hang of it, there's a limited number that need to be made, replaced only when the paper degrades. There's nothing saying they can only be made of paper, either, so more durable foldable materials (or just better paper - money makes great origami paper) would come into play.
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Desa



Joined: 07 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:29 am Reply with quote
Sometimes I feel like recap episodes are a sign that things aren't going according to keikaku on the production side of things, but again it's just a feeling. Maybe it's good for late-comers to the show who don't have access to the the previous episodes? Because surely no one believes the audience will just forget all the important points of a show after only six or so weeks right?

But back when we left off Shindo was shown some "brain in a jar" thing and the possibility of eliminating the need for sleep. It was at this point that I knew things might be taking a very wrong turn.

What surprisingly little we know about sleep tells us that a whole bunch of things happen which involves the entire body, not just your brain. Especially so for younger children where prolonged irregularities in the sleep cycle can drastically affect development. We know that most of a body's growth and maintenance processes occur during sleep. Athletes for example are keenly aware of the importance of sleep for muscle growth and repair and crucially metabolic stabilization.

But the most important thing is the fact that nature has over millions of years refined countless branches of organisms that include sleep as a core function, no different from eating. The key is balance. All that we know points to a 100% certainty that whenever systemic balance is disrupted, bad things happen. Sleep is as much a part of that balance as eternal sleep is to life itself.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:02 pm Reply with quote
PumpkinMouse wrote:
I would like to believe that Kado really is about exploring how to understand someone so very, very different from you, but I'm not really so sure yet. Maybe it'll be something that shows up more in the second half, but right now it really feels like humanity (or, more specifically, Japan) is merely adjusting itself (or being adjusted) to suit zaShunina's goals, rather than taking an active part in a two-way conversation.

I didn't mean that in a Zashunina vs Mankind sense, more on a personal level, with Zashunina and Shindou and perhaps Saraka too (although so far she's kind of a non-entity). Zashunina and Shindou are definitely having a two-way conversation, obviously the balance is tipping toward Zashunina, but he still listens to what Shindou says and tries to understand him, much like how Shindou is trying to understand him. And perhaps now that the new Kado HQ is in what seems to be Saraka's hometown (at least that's how I interpreted her reaction when the place name was mentioned) maybe she'll get more screentime and characterization, and get to interact with Zashunina a bit more.

Anyway, the one thing that keeps pinging my mind is the word "ihou", ie. "anisotropic". It's kind of weirdly specific and yet doesn't seem to be all that relevant, ie. Zashunina could have the same powers if he came from "another dimension" or whatever. And they keep calling him "ihou sonzai" ie. "anisotropic being". But while 異方/ihou means "anisotropic", written with different kanji 異邦/ihou means "foreign". ("Foreigner" would be 異邦人/ihoujin, but of course Zashunina is not a "jin" ie. human, hence "sonzai", "being".)

It may or may not be relevant, but the connection seems too specific to me to be accidental.
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Merida
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 1:56 am Reply with quote
This ep. got a bit too close to those silly movies about an alien who's superior in every way coming to earth and eventually wanting to stay because humans have junk food and video games or festivals and books (conveniently ignoring that we also have a lot of not-so-nice things...). Now all that's missing is for zaShunina to fall in love with Shindou...

As for whether or not progress will bring happiness, i don't think that was ever a major concern for human-made progress...but why would Tsukai talk to Shindou of all people about wanting to send zaShunina away? He's probably the person with the least interest in his disappearance. Also, humanity already has the Wam and knows - or will soon know - about the Sansa, that will not simply go away with zaShunina leaving (unless he's got some handy brain-washing device as well...).
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:01 am Reply with quote
Merida wrote:
This ep. got a bit too close to those silly movies about an alien who's superior in every way coming to earth and eventually wanting to stay because humans have junk food and video games or festivals and books (conveniently ignoring that we also have a lot of not-so-nice things...). Now all that's missing is for zaShunina to fall in love with Shindou...

I think it's more about Zashunina becoming more and more human-like as he gains more insight into humans and their culture, and developing a real affection towards either mankind as a whole, or just select humans. And on that note, I'd much rather if Shindou had a romance with him instead of the apparent development of Shindou/Saraka... at least Zashunina has an actual character and existing relationship with Shindou, unlike Saraka. She's shaping up to be worse than the scientist girl.

Merida wrote:
Also, humanity already has the Wam and knows - or will soon know - about the Sansa, that will not simply go away with zaShunina leaving (unless he's got some handy brain-washing device as well...).

No, they said the sansa is different. For one it's more difficult to replicate, and the effects are less clear-cut, so far only four people experienced it, and only two have managed to benefit from its effects. So if Zashunina decided to go away he could very well take the sansa as well.

I agree that it's a stupid idea to ask Shindou to help sending Zashunina away, though. Whatever possessed her to even ask?
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:38 am Reply with quote
I'm not sure why, but I was under the impression that somehow just seeing the sansa was enough to get the effect, and that's why zaShunina invited the reporters in, so they could disseminate the video of it and spread it that way. If that's the case, for good or ill, it seems like the barn door is already open and Saraka is too late.

Until this episode, I thought the sansa was a representation of what he wanted to do to human brains, rather than the device itself, and that was kinda disconcerting.

I appreciated them showing the protests - it would be annoying to suddenly have this 2km thing blocking the sun for half the day.

Adam Ward - is the google exec the love child of Batman and Robin or something? Like those he represents, he probably needs to go back and recall the "Don't be evil" motto...

Quote:
While the CG stuff looks quite good compared to similar shows, doing a few scenes the old-fashioned way only serves to show how far the new technology still needs to go.

I don't really notice, but maybe they're going for a meta commentary about new tech and old-fashioned ways working together (or not, depending on your view of the blend). Smile
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Merida
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:47 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
I'm not sure why, but I was under the impression that somehow just seeing the sansa was enough to get the effect


That's exactly what the subs said, that's probably why. Wink Unless it was a translation error, just spreading footage of the Sansa should be enough. Why else would zaShunina have chosen the media to spread it?
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:49 am Reply with quote
Ah, ok. I figured I must've imagined it or read something between the lines that wasn't there, since SHD seemed to think zaShunina could take it away with him because it was hard to produce the actual device. If seeing a video of it is enough, he doesn't need to produce more.
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chaccide



Joined: 16 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:58 pm Reply with quote
For really interesting exploration of humans modified not to need sleep, there's a great Hugo and Nebula award-winning novel called Beggars in Spain by Nancy Kress.

I think this episode of Kado made it clear that humans would not be avoiding sleep, they were just shoving it off onto another human (themselves in another universe). I find this approach kind of sinister. I mean if we consider that there's some universe out there where his duplicate's arms keep disappearing whenever zaSunina needs to use them... Where's the consent?
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:11 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
I'm not sure why, but I was under the impression that somehow just seeing the sansa was enough to get the effect, and that's why zaShunina invited the reporters in, so they could disseminate the video of it and spread it that way. If that's the case, for good or ill, it seems like the barn door is already open and Saraka is too late.

Rewatching the episode, you're probably correct - I watched the episode very late at night so I guess I misunderstood the part where they were talking about how sansa is different from the wam.
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notrogersmith



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:46 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Adam Ward - is the google exec the love child of Batman and Robin or something?
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that the guy had the first name of Adam West and the last name of Burt Ward. Very Happy
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lebrel



Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:20 pm Reply with quote
I was quite disappointed with this episode. Between the arbitrary decision to let this one specific reporter into Kado, when you know every news team on the planet is begging for access, to letting Hot Alien Dude wander around without any security (and on his first trip off the base, as well), to negotiator chick acting like she's in a teen harem comedy, it was really a step down in the level of realism the story had initially. And what happened to needing 3 hours to process a person leaving Kado?

Although being shown a gizmo that lets you access additional dimensions, and concluding its best use is letting you work an additional 8 hours a day, is the most hilariously salaryman-workaholic thing I've seen in forever, so that was a plus. Smile

chaccide wrote:

I think this episode of Kado made it clear that humans would not be avoiding sleep, they were just shoving it off onto another human (themselves in another universe). I find this approach kind of sinister. I mean if we consider that there's some universe out there where his duplicate's arms keep disappearing whenever zaSunina needs to use them... Where's the consent?


It's not "another human", it's an extension of your same self in other dimensions. Imagine sticking your arms in a pool of water; from the perspective of the water, there are two separate objects, but they're both actually part of you. The situation would be more like what whales and dolphins do, where only one half of the brain sleeps at a time so the other half can handle the whole "not drowning" thing.
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chaccide



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:45 pm Reply with quote
lebrel wrote:

chaccide wrote:

I think this episode of Kado made it clear that humans would not be avoiding sleep, they were just shoving it off onto another human (themselves in another universe). I find this approach kind of sinister. I mean if we consider that there's some universe out there where his duplicate's arms keep disappearing whenever zaSunina needs to use them... Where's the consent?


It's not "another human", it's an extension of your same self in other dimensions. Imagine sticking your arms in a pool of water; from the perspective of the water, there are two separate objects, but they're both actually part of you. The situation would be more like what whales and dolphins do, where only one half of the brain sleeps at a time so the other half can handle the whole "not drowning" thing.


I understand what's being described - all versions of someone across infinite multiverses are extensions of the same being. But it certainly is another human if that "portion" of your being is unaware of the situation and exists separately. For instance, any of the humans before zaShunina arrived. Would it be right for one portion of themselves to use another unknowing portion as a sleep dump? It really wouldn't be. Unaware beings are the same as separate existences. Unless they're claiming that all portions of a person achieve enlightenment simultaneously, which makes absolutely no sense given that infinite universes implies there are some where this never happens.
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lebrel



Joined: 16 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:44 pm Reply with quote
chaccide wrote:
lebrel wrote:

chaccide wrote:

I think this episode of Kado made it clear that humans would not be avoiding sleep, they were just shoving it off onto another human (themselves in another universe). I find this approach kind of sinister. I mean if we consider that there's some universe out there where his duplicate's arms keep disappearing whenever zaSunina needs to use them... Where's the consent?


It's not "another human", it's an extension of your same self in other dimensions. Imagine sticking your arms in a pool of water; from the perspective of the water, there are two separate objects, but they're both actually part of you. The situation would be more like what whales and dolphins do, where only one half of the brain sleeps at a time so the other half can handle the whole "not drowning" thing.


I understand what's being described - all versions of someone across infinite multiverses are extensions of the same being. But it certainly is another human if that "portion" of your being is unaware of the situation and exists separately. For instance, any of the humans before zaShunina arrived. Would it be right for one portion of themselves to use another unknowing portion as a sleep dump? It really wouldn't be. Unaware beings are the same as separate existences. Unless they're claiming that all portions of a person achieve enlightenment simultaneously, which makes absolutely no sense given that infinite universes implies there are some where this never happens.


See, when fiction talks about "other dimensions" it is usually using the idea of "multiple universes", like you say, but in this case I think the show actually is talking about other dimensions, in the real-physics sense; not separate entities in alternate universes but the parts of you that project into higher dimensions of this universe, that you can't perceive because the human brain can only think in 4D. The story implies the whatsit gizmo gives you the ability to perceive and maneuver in all 12 dimensions or whatever, not that it lets you access the multiverse.

Think of it as having spent your whole life lying in bed, and thinking of the world as the flat expanse of bedsheet (2D), and then suddenly discovering that you can get up and walk around (3D). Or search for the Edwin Abbott story "Flatland", which is about interacting with life that lives in a different number of dimensions; it should be on the web somewhere, try Project Gutenberg.

Now how this should allow the different projections of yourself to be doing different things, I don't know. Kado isn't really hard SF and I don't think it is trying all that hard to be consistent with actual physics, just riffing off the ideas.


Last edited by lebrel on Sun May 28, 2017 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:57 pm Reply with quote
This discussion only seems to be increasing my need for sleep.

I think we have to come to accept that this show is significantly less thoughtful than it presented itself as initially. After raising the issue of power disruption with the Wam, they wrote in some weird quasi-solution that obviates the need to actually consider any of its consequences beyond speculation in conversation. I suspect we'll see something similar here. How would increasing productivity by 50% affect a first world already afraid that automation is decreasing the amount of work there is to do? I doubt we'll get much of an answer.
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