Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Rage of Bahamut: Virgin Soul
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11349 |
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There's a difference between forming an alliance to stop a dragon that's horking fireballs at you right now, and forming one to unleash that dragon in the first place. Even in the first series, were the gods, demons and humans all on the same page before Bahamut broke the seal, even though they knew that was imminent? No they were not. Again, incoming fireballs forged that alliance, not negotiations.
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Don Perron
Posts: 27 |
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Well, guess what could had happened if they knew that those incoming fireballs were coming? Who knows? He at least tried? So how can we know? In the first season it has been thousands of years since Bahamut was awake, he was a legend so of course people had forgotten how potentially dangerous it is. But in this one, only 10 years had passed, the wounds hadn't even healed yet, actually those recent wounds were Charioce's motivation after all. Now would be the perfect time to try forge an alliance with their leaders (again, an alliance it's not join hands and sing together) more than ever buuut...
Look, provoke massacres, enslave an entire race, torture and abuse children, have fun humiliating others (what he did to Favaro), psychological tortures (what he did with Jeanne), disrespect everything in his reach and almost provoking extinction of all existing races (without the need for Bahamut) is much more easier than try be a bit reasonable, isn't? Nice job Charioce, you is indeed a dat hero. |
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3767 |
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^The seal wasn’t breaking imminently already. He wanted to break the seal early to try and kill it off with a plan which they didn’t know if it would work, and which ultimately did not permanently kill Bahamut. The gods and demons would be right to say “Slow down, dude. Why do we need to do this right now? Can’t we rebuild a bit? Do we even know that this will work?” It would be very reasonable for them to be skeptical. That’s not to say that what he did wasn’t worse or counterproductive, just that being nice might not have earned their cooperation either, and considering the results of his plan weren’t much different than had they done nothing, probably rightly so.
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ChibiKangaroo
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I was kinda amazed to see someone giving a reason for sympathizing with Charioce as "he had a plan and executed it" or something to that effect. That's a pretty low bar for war criminals.
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WeNTuS
Posts: 65 |
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It's funny because u want Charioce to use your modern logic (and that would be bad writing) while SnB universe is clearly in medieval state with low standards for human lives and basically zero human right movements with feudal rulers. You may dislike Charioce but you cannot pretend like he had no reasons to do what he did.
Also history is written by winners, so he is not a war criminal if we will use our current logic. Despite what do you think about him. |
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Don Perron
Posts: 27 |
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It's also funny how people think a plan and a reason can justify the means. You know, Hitler also had his motives, he and other cruel tyrants also had his reasons to do the abominable things they did and they're all thought that was the best for their people too so those guys are cool too?
Then I guess it's cool burn the whole world just because the shows need some action, right? Also, don't mind with Charioce the guy made a hell of the world but it was but it was for a good cause, let's call him hero because he certainly deserves it. Also, although its old the races lived in societies, not in the caves so no idea why an attempt to be reasonable and try a bit of dialogue is something so repulsive in this show. |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
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That actually makes what he did worse. The entire defense of Charoice rests on two points: that what he did was necessary, his plan was the only way to stop Bahamut for good, and that it turned out he DID kill Bahamut, so that makes the sacrifices/genocide justified somehow. Pointing out that actually, in fact his plan was reckless and ill advised, and that he didn't even kill Bahamut in the end, just makes the sacrifices and genocide meaningless.
So wait, first we need to judge him by "medieval state standards", but then we need to judge him by "our current logic" about war criminals? (whose logic is that anyways? Hypocrites in power, maybe, but certainly not mine.) When I judge the morality of someone, especially the morality of someone in a fictional fantasy universe with literal gods, angels, demons, dragons, magic, and all sorts of amazing things that causes it to be completely unlike real life, I don't use some "well it was a bad time so I guess they just couldn't help being terrible people" logic. Which is nonsense in the real world too. If the only way a character can seem at all to be a decent person is to adopt both a "well, if war criminals win they get to write history, and the history won't show them as war criminals" and also a "well in some states there were basically zero human rights and people lived at very low standards" logic, in order to excuse that person's actions... then that person is a monster, plain and simple. |
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Spike Terra
 Subscriber Posts: 358 Location: Maryland |
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To be honest, I think the second half of this show could have been saved by making Charoice a manipulative villain who was just using Nina's affection towards him to kill off anyone who is trying to oppose his ambitions of having humanity reign supreme over the world (yes I know how cliched that sounds).
------------------------Incoming Stupid Fanfiction ----------------------------------------------------------- Instead of having Alessand stab Mugaro, have him inform the Onyx Knights of their hideout location. Charoice personally leads the assualt because nameless knight captain is injured from the last fight (and because he's a completely pointless character). During the assault, Nina fails to kill Charoice, which gives him the upper hand and as he is about to deal the killing blow to his former girlfriend, Bacchus swoops in and takes the mortal blow instead (sure it would leave much of an impact on the viewer but Bacchus doesn't get to do much even though he takes so much screen time). After retreating from the human king's assault on her temporary home, Nina discards her feelings for Charoice and helps gather an army with Azazel and Raphael's help. In this scenario, Gabriel would lead the army instead of Jeanne. Nina would gather her dragonkin, the demon slaves and any willing human knights with the assistance of Jeanne and Kaiser. In the final battle of the series, Charoice would summon Bahamut as a last ditch effort to win the battle. The king would use his ill defined magic to try and control the dragon but his spell fails killing him and Bahamut goes off on a rampage. The newly formed army is no match for the dragon's assault. In order to seal the beast once more, Mugaro enters the battlefield and forms a plan with the leaders of the armies of heaven and hell. As like in ancient times, both Gabriel and Lucifer offer themselves in order to be a seal for Bahamut and that seal is reinforced by Mugaro's divine energy. Bahamut is then resealed and everyone goes on their seperate ways. Mugaro loses his angelic powers and lives as a normal boy with his mother. Nina continues bounty hunting with Favaro until they eventually get sick one another. Kaiser strives to rebuild the now the leaderless human faction with advise of Rita. Azazel and Raphael become the leaders of their perspective factions and everyone lives happily ever after in my terribly written fanfiction. This bad fanfiction is sponsored by the letter A for Anger. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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^
This fanfic is still way better than the actual story. |
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AiddonValentine
Posts: 2204 |
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Mostly because it has logical order to things and while not everything goes well for the heroes, it doesn't screw them over and it makes sure its villains meet appropriate ends. Virgin Soul is a rare story that makes every bad decision possible, including how it admits its own story was pointless with Favaro commenting that Bahamut can never be killed. Admittedly the first season did that too, but in a "the adventure never ends" manner, reinforcing how Favaro wants to reunite with Amira. Bahamut can never be killed, but there is a victory in surviving. |
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manapear
Posts: 1525 |
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Is anyone playing the game? It seems like it has minimal story, but GBF surprised me with how much story there is overall. I'm curious if following the game makes a difference.
Not the ending I wanted or expected, but I didn't dislike it. Virgin Soul suffers from the same problem that Genesis did for me; pacing. Neither the first nor second half are weak, but the pacing of the two is so different, and the pacing of the end half does end up pretty bad. I wonder if as long as the game continues, if they'll keep doing anime; and if so, how long until the next. I also wonder if the game worlds of RoB and GBF are connected, because I still think they are more than surface level, and I wonder if Cygames have any plans for their anime to merge in some way at all. Hopefully RoB does get another season and still sticks with MAPPA. Also hoping it's paced much better next time. |
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Mad_Scientist
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 3011 |
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Apparently the English version of the game was shut down recently, sadly. The Japanese version is still available, but that's hardly of any use to a fair chunk of us who don't know Japanese (like myself). |
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manapear
Posts: 1525 |
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Agreed entirely, especially about Charioce and Nina's feelings. I'm really hoping the series gets another season, and it would be nice to actually have a really fresh cast, I wouldn't mind a glimpse or cameo of returning characters, but following all new faces would be fun.
I herd, and rued how late I was to realize. I'm still tempted to play the JP version, but my Japanese is terribly rusty. It would make for good practice, but I don't know if I've seen a very dedicated guide or translation for it recently. |
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Meongantuk
 Posts: 353 |
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No, GBF and RoB world aren't connected. There are plenty of RoB characters in GBF (and vice versa), however they're "imported" and have their background adjusted to fit GBF lore (some even ends up being different race), even the anime original characters like Amira (mostly just her trying to go to hellheim and meet her mom, but no bahamut shenanigans) and Nina (pretty much her pre-Chris/Charioce self). But the biggest difference is Bahamut, who is more or less benevolent deity in GBF instead of destroy-everything-whenever-conscious-dragon. |
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WeNTuS
Posts: 65 |
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It's ok if you're judging fictional character by his traits and feats. It's not ok when you judge him like you would judge someone irl using irl standards. Feels like you're too biased towards him. Anyway, just because you dislike main characters, doesn't make anime worse or bad. It's funny how one of the few grey morality anime comes out people are shitting on it. I guess everyone is happy with white/black bs writing stories. |
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